Shocked at H+H advice not to wear too much hi-viz

[ozpoz]

Funny enough, as an American I cam over here and was shocked to see how pampered the horses were!

Put it this way, our show horses lived out all winter, shoes off, no rugs. They weren't overfed, rarely did I see an obese animal. Okay, some might say we're daft for not wearing hats back in those days - and never even heard of hi=viz unless it was deer hunting season and I do appreciate that things have changed re hats over there since I was a younger rider - but I told my aunt about putting on hi viz and she was wondering if I'd lost MY head? Clippers came out only if they were still really hairy in April just before teh show season commenced. Mind you, I'm from New England and winters are a helluva lot harder there than they are here. Hay fed from the floor or outside on the ground is mostly what they'd eat - sometimes a wee hard feed if they were still in work. Carrots and apples added to feed? Pshaw...why?!

Beds in stables over here look like thick mattresses. Ours back home were a deep bed of sawdust usually. None of these bales of lovely large flake stuff unless at a show (which is all you could get). I was really amused that you could look in any stable and just about see people using a spirit level to get the perfect shape to the banks and the front edge looked like it'd been done by an architect.

And yet now that I've been keeping a horse here in the UK, that's the done thing and I just do it....just because...well I don't know. It's just the way it is.

So...saying that you thought it might be an American thing - think again - or perhaps go and visit sometime. Or if you have, and you've seen more pampering there than you do here....then WOW, I have been away from home a long time. Cos most of the folk I know back in hte US are still "roughing it" relatively.

Um,no, Puccin' Pony.. I was meaning the (possibly wrong) idea/ stereotype of American's not understanding the meaning of the word 'ironic' ....

Alanis Morisette's song being a classic example- ok, she's half Canadian, but you get the idea

 

[PucciNPoni]

Um,no, Puccin' Pony.. I was meaning the (possibly wrong) idea/ stereotype of American's not understanding the meaning of the word 'ironic' ....

Alanis Morisette's song being a classic example- ok, she's half Canadian, but you get the idea

DOH! that's what I get for not reading the whole context! LOL and that would be my Yankism of not seeing that.

And I would agree, we aren't good on getting the irony (in general) though having lived in Scotland now for 11 years now, I'm getting sarcasm pretty well. LOL.

 

[Shantara]

Hi CC
Nope I don't but it annoys me when everyone chooses to "look the other way" in dressage .
The H&H comment was stupid I agree and you have every right to be annoyed with them and the Editors response was a standard letter with no thought as to it's effect. All in all they buggered it up.
What I am getting at is no one threatened to never watch or compete in dressage until
It was made mandatory to wear a hat even when working in and certainly if the top professionals did it first it would have much more of a positive effect on impressionable youngsters.
I wear hi vis and sniggered at the BB reference as I do with there occasionally added page filling nonsense.

If you're bothered by it, start your own thread about it. Hatless threads get a lot of attention too!
I hate seeing hatless riders and having seen (on youtube, not first-hand) a dressage horse fling itself over backwards, I know it can be just as dangerous.
I hate it as much as the next person, but this is about hi-viz and H&Hs silly comments.

 

[EstherYoung]

I think there's a bit of a difference between pictures of hatless riders and if there was, say, an article in a leading magazine that said 'people who wear riding hats are nervous wusses who look like mushroom-heads'. The former are just hurting themselves, but the latter has the potential to do real damage to others. That's what is so concerning about this H&H article.

One thing I am glad of though is that there is now a British Standard for equestrian hi viz. There used to be a lot of overpriced tat on the market which had a price premium on it because it was for horses, but wasn't actually that effective, making it nothing more than a rather dubious fashion statement. Our best high viz/reflective jackets remain those which we have bought from builders merchants, but the equestrian suppliers are getting better partly due to the efforts to standardise the industry.

 

[suzysparkle]

I am amazed that H&H published this comment about Hi-Viz and will be interested to see if the BHS make a comment on it. They have campaigned for a long time about wearing Hi-Viz, and not just when on the road. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread they did a joint campaign with the MOD in an effort to reduce incidents with low flying aircraft. I rarely go on the road but every time I hack out both Horse and I wear Hi-Viz. I wear either a tabbard or Hi-Viz fleece and Horse has leg bands as a minimum. If I do go on the road I also add a hat band. I'm also thinking about getting a Hi-Viz saddlecloth. None of this is excessive and none of it causes discomfort to the Horse. The leg bands are very lightweight. It's a no brainer - walkers see me coming, if I fall off I should be spotted and when they are shooting deer I (or Horse) won't be mistaken for one.

As for on the road, well, frankly anyone who doesn't wear Hi-Viz is an idiot, and this picture I posted a short while ago shows why. It makes no difference how good a rider you are. Note the picture wasn't taken by me, but by my husband, and he was admiring the view of the Cairngorms to the South. The weather was as perfect as you could ask for. I thought the comments made earlier by a lorry driver were also excellent. As a driver I have frequently come across Horseriders and cyclists who I swear go out looking as invisible as possible - madness!!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com

Regards, Lucy Higginson

Lucy, I have just read the article.

I still stand by my words in my previous post on this thread.

I find your comments above very blase & rather condescending to your readership as a whole, but THAT throw-away comment in the article regarding Hi-vis totally detracts from what is otherwise a well put together report.

Unfortunately, as you will be well aware - it can be just 1 comment that inflames people which can then cause the downfall of an individual or even a company...
Do you remember Mr Ratner & his short comment regarding the stock that was sold in his jewellery shops?

If you were to take on board the comments on this thread, also talk to ROSPA, the BHS and also the rescue services, I think that a rather prominent retraction/damage limitation article on your website, the magazine & your Facebook page might all possibly help.

Having been out to a large event yesterday, there was a lot of angry talk regarding the unwise 'throw-away' comment. This from quite prominent people in the horseworld. Copies of the unwise worded article were being circulated.
Today: People were discussing it this morning at my local feed/tack store (its quite a good sized place!). People were quite forcible in their comments...............

Damage limitation ought to be springing to mind for you right now.


Otherwise... anyone here remember who Ratners were? I do hope it wont be a case of 'anyone remember what Horse & Hound was?'

 

[suzysparkle]

In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.

 

[Shanny_mare]

I guessed that there must be but I did have to look twice and then a third time

 

[ester]

ah I tried to find that pic earlier so I could link it but couldn't remember whose it was!

FF.. ratners.. no idea ...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.

Am I correct? Do I win a nice hi-viz outfit?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

ah I tried to find that pic earlier so I could link it but couldn't remember whose it was!

FF.. ratners.. no idea ...

Ratners 'was' a major jewellery chain in the UK. He (Gerald Ratner, the owner) gave a throwaway comment that it was 'total c r a p' this had knock on events...... company does not exist now.

(Am sure it will all be around on Wiki or google etc)

 

[Cheiro1]

I never go out without a hat band, tabard and my horse has a high viz version of the ear covers that SJers wear. FAB invention

However having read this I have also ordered some leg wraps for her, as I said to some guy who stopped to ask why she had her ears on, I'd rather her seen than hit!

 

[stevieg]

The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.

That does seem like rather a silly thing to say. If you don't ride on the roads where do you ride? There's only so much a horse can learn from an arena or a field.
I certainly do give two hoots about my horses safety and I am sure the professional eventers, a large number of whom use road work as part of their fittening regime, also give two hoots.
And does your local hunt hunt solely across the fields? How lucky you are!

My daughter has worked for two professional eventers and she was not allowed to leave either yard on horseback without hi viz so of course I support it's use. I just think the comments made have been taken out of context somewhat.

 

[milo'n'molly]

Horse wears yellow "ears" and they're fab

 

[Cheiro1]

Horse wears yellow "ears" and they're fab

Glad i'm not the only one who's horse has yellow ears!!

 

[Luci07]

Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe. I would prefer not to wear hi viz, I would prefer not to wear a hat but accept it is safer to do so. Maybe I am just a little less sensitive about it?! I even tried to have youngest Stafford wearing a hi viz vest but sadly have given that up as fed up with all the many walks I have had to o to go back and retrieve said vest from bushes, she just has a collar now.

Still I do have one piece of hi viz which is now banned at the yard. I bought a full length riding coat, cheaply but for some reason it completely freaks out all the other horses. Luckily they don't mind my police look alike short one!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

.[/QUOTE
Brilliant post. Anyone listening?

Well not so far!
Although it is possible that on Monday morning minds could be changed, especially in the light of the Fuzzy Furry's observations. If a large number of people have posted on here and another large number are commenting on FB, as well as anecdotal evidence of 'Bertie Basset' discussions at various horse events round the country, it may well be that the real Lucy Higginson (who may not actually know the content of 'her' post on this thread) takes a different line in the cold light of the working week.
Yes I do remember the 'Ratners' episode/scandal and the exceptionally quick demise of the chain following GR's ill-advised comment.

 

[ester]

wiki'd

 

[magic104]

I have not read every single post so hopefully someone has also covered this. The other reason for wearing Hi-viz especially if you ride out alone & off the roads is if you have an accident & are knocked out, you will be much easier to spot. It is not uncommon for them to send a helicopter out to search well think how much move visiable you would be with hi-viz

 

[Booboos]

In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.

I knew there must be a rider/cyclist on that photo and I still could not find him! I had a mild incling that the shadow you cicled may have been a pedestrian but only because I was really, really looking to find someone.

Sunny days are often much more dangerous with respect to visibility than overcast ones.

 

[lannerch]

Interesting lucie07 so how many of you have actually properly read the article ( I still havnt ) am even more suspicious now it's a mountain out of a molehill scinario!

 

[Ranyhyn]

, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe.

But what's the point? Isn't that why the horse world is seen as so snarky - this needless belittling others who do something different to others, but cause no harm? You expect it of the small minded livery set but this is a massive magazine with a huge audience of readers.
Seems very bad show to be so rude and unpleasant when there is just no need.

Plus, there will inevitably be impressionable people who rightly or wrongly, CARE what H+H spouts. Who will convince them of the safety side when their favourite magazine suggests too much is to be ridiculed?

For me, hats look ridiculous, egg headed idiots we make ourselves! Body protectors make us walk like C3Po!! But we shouldn't care how we look or how we are perceieved - if it keeps us safe.

So I'll be happy for Lucy to call me BB if she likes

 

[Marydoll]

I have read the article and still hold my views, a throw away comment, but still a very stupid one that may influence those who are easily influenced and wont wear hi viz for fear of being ridiculed ... after all theyre called bertie bassets in horse and hound ..... Silly comment that imo needs a retraction

 

[touchstone]

I don't believe that it is a mountain out of a molehill, it was a careless, little thought out comment that could have very damaging consequences. Roads are very different to ride on compared to years ago when you could get away with little/no hi viz.

Calling people stupid names (how hilarious!) for wearing 'too much' hi viz shows a lack of sense and understanding, and sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, they overstepped the boundaries on this one I'm afraid.

 

[Ladydragon]

Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe.

Yeah, read it too... Don't agree... I thought it was pretty interesting then my jaw dropped with a "Are they for real" thought... Throwaway, sarcastic and more than a little bit irresponsible... But hey, it's horse related... Taking a sly dig at others is apparently perfectly acceptable...

I was wearing as much reflective stuff as I could and a constant dipped beam when I started riding a motorbike 30 years ago and the roads were substantially quieter... Transferring the same thought process to horse riding is a bit of a no brainer... The roads are far busier these days yet some bright spark decides to advocate a 'less is more appropriate' snotty type approach for horse riders... Go figure...

 

[milo'n'molly]

Well I have read the article and whilst there is some sense, it is hugely irresponsible to make comments like that when people are just trying to do the best they can for their horse. What harm can it do anyone to wear all the high cuz possible? Was also not satisfied with the response from hh administration on here, how patronising of them, more thought needed. On another note has anyone brought this thread to the attention of the bhs?

 

[Shantara]

Interesting lucie07 so how many of you have actually properly read the article ( I still havnt ) am even more suspicious now it's a mountain out of a molehill scinario!

I've just been to the local supermarket and thought I'd have a read...

I could feel myself getting more and more red-faced as I did so! I'm shocked!
The whole article is written in a "We know best. Stupid novices" kind of way. Usually I like "7 deadly sin" type articles, but this one is a total mockery of horse owners. The bit about the warmbloods annoyed me too. I've seen "safe" cobbie types that would sooner kill you, than look at you and ex racers etc, who I wouldn't mind putting a toddler on. Sweeping generalisation of their readers on all accounts.

 

[Shantara]

Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe. I would prefer not to wear hi viz, I would prefer not to wear a hat but accept it is safer to do so. Maybe I am just a little less sensitive about it?!

I'd rather not have to wear hi-viz, or a hat, or a body protector, or gloves, or make the horse wear a saddle, or a bridle, or anything like that...but they're all made for safety and I know I am better off with all that stuff, so I do use it. And since I'm using it, why not make it matchy matchy and fun?
I personally like drawing patterns on mine

 

[Booboos]

I would suspect that the comment was not careless, but that the entire article was intended to 'provoke' in the Daily Fail sense of the word, i.e. make some imaginary stuff up that ridicules some people in the hopes of causing a (profitable) controvercy.

 

[Ceris Comet]

Not profitable if people are canceling subs left, right and center .