Shocking video, warning bit gory

Not read all replies, but having watched the whole documentary, I can safely say that that particular horse was NOT just your typical cocky youngster or even feral or wild horse. He was damaged, by the circumstances of his birth and upbringing, and dangerous; going at people who were just walking by his pen. He was OK to ride, but not to handle. The man in the ring was Dan, a cowboy working with Buck. Buck explained that with the correct handling he may have been an OK horse, but gave the owner quite a telling off for her management and also for not cutting him. It doesn't say whether the horse was put down.
 
fburton said:
He clearly didn't, otherwise he would have avoided getting attacked like that! He provoked the horse into attacking him, ignoring all the warning signs and just carrying on with zero feel or sensitivity.
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Nope, horse was a nutjob. It was going for people walking past minding their own business. They actually managed to ride it fairly successfully though.
 
Yep, PF if you watch the longer clip you see it attacking people walking past the pen. The horsemanship guy dealt with it well, as for the man it attacked, I think he qualifies as too brave and therefore stupid!
 
Yeah, kind of puts those theories of breaking him all in one weekend was what caused those issues. Or a major contributor. That's the problem with little clips. All the experts get a chance to pretend they could do so much better.

Terri
 
PapaFrita said:
Nope, horse was a nutjob. It was going for people walking past minding their own business. They actually managed to ride it fairly successfully though.
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Where is the skill and common sense in going into a pen with a "nut job" and holding it's head and flapping a big bag at it? :confused:
I don't care how many horses this bloke has "broke", he showed no common sense or skill with this one with the information he had about it and it's behaviour in the pen imo. :(
Oh yes, the horse is supposed to bow down and worship him is it? :confused:

I understand Buck B was very upset and angry with everyone concerned and stated they had all failed this horse. I agree!
 
amandap said:
Where is the skill and common sense in going into a pen with a "nut job" and holding it's head and flapping a big bag at it? :confused:
I don't care how many horses this bloke has "broke", he showed no common sense or skill with this one with the information he had about it and it's behaviour in the pen imo. :(
Oh yes, the horse is supposed to bow down and worship him is it? :confused:

I understand Buck B was very upset and angry with everyone concerned and stated they had all failed this horse. I agree!
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I don't think that at that point they understood quite how damaged the horse was and perhaps the cowboy was overconfident. The horse was meant to retreat, not 'worship' him. Please let's not get melodramatic, and MOST horses would've backed down. They had already managed to saddle and ride him.
Yes, Buck was very upset with the owner of the horse and to her credit she did admit she'd handled him incorrectly, causing many of his problems. Buck was NOT however, sure that the horse would've turned out fine given correct care/handling because of the circumstances of his birth and the oxygen deprivation. He DID say that he hadn't been give the RIGHT CHANCE to turn out okish.
 
PapaFrita said:
I don't think that at that point they understood quite how damaged the horse was and perhaps the cowboy was overconfident. The horse was meant to retreat, not 'worship' him. Please let's not get melodramatic, and MOST horses would've backed down. They had already managed to saddle and ride him.
Yes, Buck was very upset with the owner of the horse and to her credit she did admit she'd handled him incorrectly, causing many of his problems. Buck was NOT however, sure that the horse would've turned out fine given correct care/handling because of the circumstances of his birth and the oxygen deprivation. He DID say that he hadn't been give the RIGHT CHANCE to turn out okish.
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How and why would a stallion back down when in a position like that? He was cornered in effect. The bloke went in full on with a big flappy sack not something small to start with, the bloke himself instinctively backed off when he jumped away from the horse on a couple of occasions before the attack so the horse got an inkling he was on a winner with his defensive behaviour. There was no process of advance and retreat starting small, just holding the horse till it was still then slapping the flappy thing at his rear. The horse couldn't move away, showed he was scared and certainly didn't like the sack and wasn't going to tolerate it or the bloke. He was ramping up his threats, threat to kick, strike, vocalizing, that side ways head shake then the rear...
If you can't see that continuing with that approach after that escalation in defensive/aggressive behaviours is going to continue to escalate then you are blind!
This is the problem with trying to get a horse to submit by force, you are challenging the horse to a fight not teaching him anything. Yes it was force imo, the horse couldn't get away at all!

Just because you have got away with making hundreds of horses "back down" doesn't make it sensible or the bloke right! I wonder how many broken bones that bloke has had over the years?
 
Merry Crisis said:
Thank you for the lesson........... I do know what colts are lol. You ask what my point was, you have just answered my question in your post above, you dont know enough to make a judgemental post about the cow boy in the video. Sorry.
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Even without stallion experience, it is still plain for anyone with a modicum of horse sense to see what the guy did was foolish for embarking on a sacking-out session in the first place and deaf to the clear warning signs from the horse. I'm surprised you question that.

Incidentally, where did the idea that the guy has broken hundreds of horses come from?
 
amandap said:
How and why would a stallion back down when in a position like that? He was cornered in effect. The bloke went in full on with a big flappy sack not something small to start with, the bloke himself instinctively backed off when he jumped away from the horse on a couple of occasions before the attack so the horse got an inkling he was on a winner with his defensive behaviour. There was no process of advance and retreat starting small, just holding the horse till it was still then slapping the flappy thing at his rear. The horse couldn't move away, showed he was scared and certainly didn't like the sack and wasn't going to tolerate it or the bloke. He was ramping up his threats, threat to kick, strike, vocalizing, that side ways head shake then the rear...
If you can't see that continuing with that approach after that escalation in defensive/aggressive behaviours is going to continue to escalate then you are blind!
This is the problem with trying to get a horse to submit by force, you are challenging the horse to a fight not teaching him anything. Yes it was force imo, the horse couldn't get away at all!

Just because you have got away with making hundreds of horses "back down" doesn't make it sensible or the bloke right! I wonder how many broken bones that bloke has had over the years?
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Fine. Whatever.
 
PapaFrita said:
Nope, horse was a nutjob. It was going for people walking past minding their own business. They actually managed to ride it fairly successfully though.
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So you're saying that because the horse was a 'nutjob' (which I agree with, btw), the events in the video were completely unexpected and that the provoked behaviour we saw wouldn't lead to an attack at some point? :confused: Hmmm.
 
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don't have time to read every reply but will come back later! My opinion is that a lot of bottle fed horses (the ones i have been in contact with) are almost made to think they are humans. Perhaps he saw the man as more of an equal than a leader. Great apologies if that sounds like some Parelli nonsense.. but hope you get the gist. Also agree with the gelding comments and the fact that the horse was clearly stressed. I didn't see it coming though and did think it was an over-reaction from the horse... =/ But then like someone else said it couldn't take flight so had to fight!
 
amandap said:
How and why would a stallion back down when in a position like that? He was cornered in effect. The bloke went in full on with a big flappy sack not something small to start with, the bloke himself instinctively backed off when he jumped away from the horse on a couple of occasions before the attack so the horse got an inkling he was on a winner with his defensive behaviour. There was no process of advance and retreat starting small, just holding the horse till it was still then slapping the flappy thing at his rear. The horse couldn't move away, showed he was scared and certainly didn't like the sack and wasn't going to tolerate it or the bloke. He was ramping up his threats, threat to kick, strike, vocalizing, that side ways head shake then the rear...
If you can't see that continuing with that approach after that escalation in defensive/aggressive behaviours is going to continue to escalate then you are blind!
This is the problem with trying to get a horse to submit by force, you are challenging the horse to a fight not teaching him anything. Yes it was force imo, the horse couldn't get away at all!

Just because you have got away with making hundreds of horses "back down" doesn't make it sensible or the bloke right! I wonder how many broken bones that bloke has had over the years?
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This, exactly. ANY horse, given nowhere to go, and threatened with the sack like that, might eventually try to turn on the trainer. To do that with one that is already KNOWN to be an aggressive nutjob - jeeez, he's really lucky he wasn't killed. He ignored several CLEAR warnings, ramping up... that horse was saying "don't push me, seriously, not fun, back off, i'm not kidding here" and the idiot just kept doing it. wtf?
In fact I think it's in the horse's favour that he didn't kill the guy, just got rid of the threat and then wandered over to the fence (to his owner?) like a normal horse, didn't go off trumpeting his success, or go back for more.
Apparently the horse was PTS. prob a very good job with an owner like that. never had a chance from the moment he drew breath. :( :( :(
 
Jeez. After reading through the comments and the people who are saying aww poor horsey, flight or fight bla bla bla you need to take a look at yourselves.

The horse is a horrible, rotten screw. I guess not one of you bunny hugging folk have ever come across a horse who has issues and just wan't to hurt you. I thankfully have only ever met one. He got taken away for an injection of lead.

This wasn't about the flight or fright. He came out over the fence at one guy. He knew he was top dog and he didn't give a damn how he was going to stay there. Have you ever heard that a horse will always try to avoid it's fallen rider?
This yolk would have probably dropped you, got down and rolled on top of you a few times.

I hope it's dead for anybody's sake that may have to do anything with it in future. Maybe it was wronged by human's. Although saying that plenty of horses are done wrong by the two legged folk and they don't go around attacking people.
I'd say this thing, if it is dead has gone straight to hell and is now the steed of the devil!
 
Little Squirrel said:
Jeez. After reading through the comments and the people who are saying aww poor horsey, flight or fight bla bla bla you need to take a look at yourselves.

The horse is a horrible, rotten screw. I guess not one of you bunny hugging folk have ever come across a horse who has issues and just wan't to hurt you. I thankfully have only ever met one. He got taken away for an injection of lead.

This wasn't about the flight or fright. He came out over the fence at one guy. He knew he was top dog and he didn't give a damn how he was going to stay there. Have you ever heard that a horse will always try to avoid it's fallen rider?
This yolk would have probably dropped you, got down and rolled on top of you a few times.

I hope it's dead for anybody's sake that may have to do anything with it in future. Maybe it was wronged by human's. Although saying that plenty of horses are done wrong by the two legged folk and they don't go around attacking people.
I'd say this thing, if it is dead has gone straight to hell and is now the steed of the devil!
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What a load of nonsense. Do shut up.
 
'I'd say this thing, if it is dead has gone straight to hell and is now the steed of the devil!'

:rolleyes:

ETS i find the use of the term 'bunny hugger' to describe anyone who places the blame on people rather than a horse born pure evil and the 'steed of the devil' ... to be rude and offensive.
 
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Bringing this back into life, has anyone actually seen the film this clip has been taken from.? If not, this short clip is nothing but a mere piece of a much much bigger jigsaw, and from what I,ve seen so far it is certainly eye opening.
 
Yes, I've seen it - Buck. Quite a well-made and interesting film. And there's more info about the "yellow" stallion and his rather batty (imo) owner in the DVD extras.
 
Yes, I've seen the film as well. I agree, it's a well made and interesting film. I'll watch it again sometime, but I don't remember anything about the bloke who got knocked down being some sort of expert horse trainer, or having started 100's of horses, but I may have forgotten that bit. (It's got f-all to do with Parelli as well).
I think some on this thread (just some!) are missing what Buck was trying to teach when he had this horse's story included in the film. Love him or hate him, Buck wants to be an advocate for the horse. He wants horse owners to realise that they are responsible for the horse that they own, if it's a "dirty wrotten screw" that is the fault of the people who owned it, the horse is not to blame. He sometimes says that the horse is our mirror.
(Even if there was a physical reason for it's behaviour, or it's brain damaged, the owners would be responsible for the horse they took to the clinic because maybe they shouldn't have let it live to get to that point).
 
Actually, assuming one believed in heaven or hell, I think that horse would end up in heaven, as it was pretty clear he was the way he was because of how humans had made him.

He gave a lot of warnings, the cowboy handling him didn't listen, and paid for his inattention.

Those who point to his running at people when he was just alone in the pen, and saying that proves he was just a wrong'un - not so. What that actually showed was a horse who had got used to controlling the people around him. And you even got to see a clip of him training (and being trained by) people around him. By which I mean the fact that every time he ran at the people outside the pen, they leapt & shrieked & jumped out of the way. That was working very successfully for the stallion - he wasn't do that because he was bad, he was doing it to control the world around him.

People are seeing this too much in human eyes - the horse wasn't a bad horse, he was a horse making decisions which made perfect sense to him - he has no human concept of good or bad. The human came & handled him, he didn't like it, he told the human so, the human didn't listen, so he got rid of him. Notice that once the human went away (was on the floor) the horse stopped, and signs of aggression were gone. Equally, when he was in his pen, he viewed that as his space - running at the people is his version of protecting his space.

I own/have colts (admittedly usually much smaller than him!), and I have hand reared a foal myself - who is now a rising four year old colt. And he is an absolute delight. But I worked hard to make sure he was - aware of the tendancy for handreareds to be difficult. I have also taken on a handreared who wasn't far off the behaviour of this colt in the video. I took him on because other people couldn't cope with him. And he was a little s**t when he arrived. He reared, boxed, bit, kicked, bucked - whatever he thought might get him his way. And when he arrived with us he actually got worse initially, as he got boundaries for the first time in his life, and he did NOT like them! He was also entire. A few months of firm, quiet handling, and being castrated did him the world of good. He went off to a lovely new home, and my small daughter loaded him when he went.

Some years ago, I also used to work with wild colts that came off the moors & forests, handling them from wild. Every so often, when being handled, you would get one that would threaten to kick you, or even may actually do so. Quite a common thing for them to try. And when it happens, you cannot back off - if when they go to kick, you squeal & jump out of the way - well done! You've just trained a colt that if it wishes you to go away, it just has to pretend, or actually, kick you and you will move away. I once had one double barrel me in the chest - totally not his fault, he was startled while I was working with him, and his survival instinct kicked in. Once I took a breather, I had to go back to working the same thing with him - otherwise that would hang over us both in the future. It is VERY easy to train a relatively unhandled, or an overhandled horse, particularly a colt, how to control us & move us around - without even realising what you're doing!

Whether this colt could have been trained out of it - who knows. Would I have been willing to get in the pen with him - possibly not. Should he have been PTS - hard one to answer.

But I do think people need to see this as a horse with a horses reasoning, and understand the workings of his mind behind that, not consider that this is the equine version of satan. There was a reason for everything this horse did - and it wasn't because he was born evil. It was because he was failed at every turn by those who handled him and owned him. He was created to be this way, and indeed trained to be this way.
 
varkie said:
Actually, assuming one believed in heaven or hell, I think that horse would end up in heaven, as it was pretty clear he was the way he was because of how humans had made him.

He gave a lot of warnings, the cowboy handling him didn't listen, and paid for his inattention.

Those who point to his running at people when he was just alone in the pen, and saying that proves he was just a wrong'un - not so. What that actually showed was a horse who had got used to controlling the people around him. And you even got to see a clip of him training (and being trained by) people around him. By which I mean the fact that every time he ran at the people outside the pen, they leapt & shrieked & jumped out of the way. That was working very successfully for the stallion - he wasn't do that because he was bad, he was doing it to control the world around him.

People are seeing this too much in human eyes - the horse wasn't a bad horse, he was a horse making decisions which made perfect sense to him - he has no human concept of good or bad. The human came & handled him, he didn't like it, he told the human so, the human didn't listen, so he got rid of him. Notice that once the human went away (was on the floor) the horse stopped, and signs of aggression were gone. Equally, when he was in his pen, he viewed that as his space - running at the people is his version of protecting his space.

I own/have colts (admittedly usually much smaller than him!), and I have hand reared a foal myself - who is now a rising four year old colt. And he is an absolute delight. But I worked hard to make sure he was - aware of the tendancy for handreareds to be difficult. I have also taken on a handreared who wasn't far off the behaviour of this colt in the video. I took him on because other people couldn't cope with him. And he was a little s**t when he arrived. He reared, boxed, bit, kicked, bucked - whatever he thought might get him his way. And when he arrived with us he actually got worse initially, as he got boundaries for the first time in his life, and he did NOT like them! He was also entire. A few months of firm, quiet handling, and being castrated did him the world of good. He went off to a lovely new home, and my small daughter loaded him when he went.

Some years ago, I also used to work with wild colts that came off the moors & forests, handling them from wild. Every so often, when being handled, you would get one that would threaten to kick you, or even may actually do so. Quite a common thing for them to try. And when it happens, you cannot back off - if when they go to kick, you squeal & jump out of the way - well done! You've just trained a colt that if it wishes you to go away, it just has to pretend, or actually, kick you and you will move away. I once had one double barrel me in the chest - totally not his fault, he was startled while I was working with him, and his survival instinct kicked in. Once I took a breather, I had to go back to working the same thing with him - otherwise that would hang over us both in the future. It is VERY easy to train a relatively unhandled, or an overhandled horse, particularly a colt, how to control us & move us around - without even realising what you're doing!

Whether this colt could have been trained out of it - who knows. Would I have been willing to get in the pen with him - possibly not. Should he have been PTS - hard one to answer.

But I do think people need to see this as a horse with a horses reasoning, and understand the workings of his mind behind that, not consider that this is the equine version of satan. There was a reason for everything this horse did - and it wasn't because he was born evil. It was because he was failed at every turn by those who handled him and owned him. He was created to be this way, and indeed trained to be this way.
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Need a "like" button Varkie.
 
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