Shocking video, warning bit gory

I agreed with the 'fight or flight' comment until I saw the longer video which showed a very aggressive horse even when he wasn't put under pressure.
 
Exactly 3beasties. Except that won't get commented on. Too many Rose colored glasses around.

I had a longer post typed out but it's just not worth it. People only see what they want.

Terri
 
luckyoldme said:
theres a little more about it here
http://chloetheponywhowouldnt.blogspot.com/2011/11/buck.html
What a shame... He was a bit of a looker wasn t he
Click to expand...

Thanks for this . . . these words just jumped right out at me . . .

"Mark Rashid's "Old Man" would have done even better with his technique of leaving the horse - for weeks if necessary - alone in a large pasture, visiting him twice a day only to feed him and dictate the terms under which he may eat. And where is it written that you must go from three-years-with-no-handling to sacked-out-and-under-saddle in one weekend clinic?"

Sigh.

P
 
When horses get pushed and can't run away this is what they do! My mare was pretty much unhandled when i got her and no doubt suffered some abuse in the past, she was making steady progress so I stupidly pushed her too far (hot stables and attempting to put on fly spray) she made it clear in hindsight that she was scared, I thought she was just trying to avoid it and then took a chunk out of my stomach because I ignored the warning signs :( and she really went for it like the horse in the video I had a massive bruise for weeks. I carried on so she didn't get what she wanted by being aggressive, and she's never done it since. She's one of the sweetest mares I know and honestly stood there looking horrified at what she had done (probably expecting a whack!)
A horse can easily revert back to natural instincts when stressed!
 
This has made me angry as the little horse gave all the waring signs and the idiot just didn't back off. Horses like this are difficult but can be worked with. They tried to back the poor creature and ride it all in one weekend! I have a rising 5 yr old gelding that I was given last year. He has had a similar upbringing and was going to be PTS, he hadn't been touched for 3 yrs and was wild, he thankfully hadn't got to the mega aggressive stage but was getting there and wouldn't think twice at attacking with both back legs. It's taken me 6 months of kind and repetitive trust training to be able to have him tacked up, long reined, lunged and backed. I backed him here lightly and he's currently at a proff schooling yard having the best education I can get him before he comes home in two weeks. Now I admit that my little guy is rather special and if we can get him right will be a top class FEI prospect so well worth the time invested but I just don't like the way the poor little chap on the video was handled. I have an intense dislike for these start and work horses quickly camp things they seem to like in the states. A horse like this is going to take a hell of a lot longer than a normal horse, yes its been spoilt and allowed to get like this but its not it's fault.
 
I think the horse gave fair warning, but the guy wasn't really listenning. Although as some have said the motivation is probably that this was last chance saloon for this horse.
It's a shame but the horse and the people around it would have been much better off if it had been PTS.
 
What??!!!
Fight or flight - how many horses have you seen turn round and try and rip someones face off? I Would have shot it there and then, the horse is a dirty wrotten screw!!
Yeah maybe someone screwed it up in the past but she spoilt it she didn't tie it in a corner and beat it. When you 'sack out' a horse you try to desensitize it. Most horse freak, freak, freak a little less and eventually accept it - realising there is no danger and no pain. That thing went from a little bit unhappy about the sack to trying to eat the guy!!
 
Such a shame, I knew a bottle raised mare who was a little oxygen deprived at birth - breathing when she came out but very difficult birth hence the loss of the mare and she had mild brain damage. She was the sweetest little thing but almost impossible to train. Friendly but VERY in your face - no concept of personal space with humans or horses. It was weird, the boss mares (there were 2 dominant personalities in the field) seemed to know she was a bit odd and tolerated her or gave her gentle kicks rather than going for her like they would with any horse that understood the pecking order and behaved as she did.

She was very willing to please but it literally took weeks for anything to sink in, even as little as 'when you are tied to the wall you can't wander off', she didn't panic or anything just kept trying, once it had sunk in she 'thought' she was tied up whenever she stood in the tie up spot even if you hadn't tied the rope to the ring. Very tolerant pony though, put up with anything to the point where it was hard to train her because she just didn't react. If a horse reacts you can modulate the reaction to the one you want, if it just stands there grinning stupidly at you it is very very difficult to train. :).

Looking at this horse I can imagine that if she was not so nice natured - with the lack of personal space, mindless determination to do things and thick skinned imperviousness to reprimand she could have been very dangerous.

The stallion in the video does seem a lot more reactive than she was though, she was similarly dumped into a field with adults and no mum at about 4/5 months rather than 3. Perhaps it is an example of how different personalities work out.

The stallion in the video is clearly dangerous though, even with no pressure on, no-one trying to enter the ring or even looking at him he still went for them over the fence.
 
jessie7 said:
What??!!!
Fight or flight - how many horses have you seen turn round and try and rip someones face off? I Would have shot it there and then, the horse is a dirty wrotten screw!!
Yeah maybe someone screwed it up in the past but she spoilt it she didn't tie it in a corner and beat it. When you 'sack out' a horse you try to desensitize it. Most horse freak, freak, freak a little less and eventually accept it - realising there is no danger and no pain. That thing went from a little bit unhappy about the sack to trying to eat the guy!!
Click to expand...

Well said.
agree.gif
 
jessie7 said:
What??!!!
Fight or flight - how many horses have you seen turn round and try and rip someones face off? I Would have shot it there and then, the horse is a dirty wrotten screw!!
Click to expand...

I think this is quite interesting, actually - My little Amy May reacted in a very similar way many years ago (with me on board) when threatened by a group of youth......... She was not dangerous nor aggressive but on this particular occasion was having none of the nonsense being thrown at her that day.
 
I don't have a problem with round pens per se it's what you do in them that can be a problem but that applies to any working area.

My questions are around this type of work with this particular horse. The sacking out itself is very questionable to me anyway but with this horse is clearly showing defensive aggression from the word go it was a bad call. This sort of constant insistence on the horse putting up with a sack slapping it is just a red rag and imo asking for an extreme defensive response, which is what happened. The bloke is holding (has control of) the horses head but trying to go round to slap it's back end. :confused: The attack or response was always going to come from the front end. :(

I'm no expert but none of it makes sense to me at all and imo it is a highly dangerous approach with a horse showing the responses it was and with it's history.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Although I agree that this horses upbringing is to blame for his issues and should be pts I can't help but think that guy was being a bit of an idiot. As someone else just said, the horse was pissed off, gave warning and then attacked. Yes it was a bit Ott but the guy asked for it. Also, not wanting to start another hat debate..but this is why we wear one when working with tricky horses on the ground
 
jessie7 said:
What??!!!
Fight or flight - how many horses have you seen turn round and try and rip someones face off? I Would have shot it there and then, the horse is a dirty wrotten screw!!
Click to expand...

How many horses do you know, bottle fed, brought up in a HOUSE, with no boundaries set? The horse was not born dangerous, he was made that way and tackling a horse like that straight on is a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying turning him away would be the answer either, or that I believe by that stage he was 'fixable', just that he warned the handler and the handler didn't listen.

I also doubt the owner was 100% about the horses issues when she took it there, but the little horse did warn the handler several times. The horse has been failed all round, but I do agree by that stage PTS was the only option.
 
The horses is a prey animal being attacked my a cowboy acting as a predictor, the horses was just protecting himself.
I hope someone understanding took the horse on and they didn't PTS like the owner suggested
 
I agree that the handling was poor, in an earlier clip of the man handling the horse he yanked its head pointlessly and it did make me think........ ay? I don't think Buck was actually around when that man was working with it.

however, agree with EI who stated rose-tinted-glasses have been put on! This horse was bloody dangerous, and she would never have sold it, so it would have stayed with her out with the other 18 stallions and would have likely caused more damage to someone else. I think that's maybe part of the reason why Buck didn't continue to work with it. Although it made me sad, when you saw the clip of Buck loading into the trailer... you could see the horses brain was ticking over and working out the situation with the pressure & release methods.
 
blucanoo1990 said:
The horses is a prey animal being attacked my a cowboy acting as a predictor, the horses was just protecting himself.
I hope someone understanding took the horse on and they didn't PTS like the owner suggested
Click to expand...

The horse would attack anyone simply walking past the round pen and nowhere near it/making eye contact. I don't think it's a case of 'poor horse being bullied by cowboy stands up for itself'
 
stargirl88 said:
The horse would attack anyone simply walking past the round pen and nowhere near it/making eye contact. I don't think it's a case of 'poor horse being bullied by cowboy stands up for itself'
Click to expand...
I do think it's a case of someone taking a huge risk and getting it very wrong though! He could have stopped long before he was attacked and considered other and safer options. I just don't see any sense in taking these kinds of risks and sticking to your (questionable imo) guns in the face of such opposition and warnings from the horse. I do think there was a big element of provocation looking from the horses perspective. He was well established in his behaviours of how to keep humans away before this incident. To me it's obvious he would just up the anti even further when it wasn't working for him in the face of that kind of pressure. :(

A very sad and sorry tale from beginning to end.

ps. We are supposed to have the brains, we should use them to keep safe and look at safer interventions. If we just stick to what we know without listening to and taking note of the horses responses then we are going to get hurt eventually even in cases much less serious than this horse.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That cowboy would have broken in hundreds of horses - I think he knew what he was doing.
And no I don't know any horses brought up in a house BUT like I said she wasn't beating the crap out of it and making it vicious. Horses are too big to behave like that. Could understand if it was just a bolshy little s**t! Whatever happened to it that made it vicious it is still vicious and needs a lump of lead. Maybe evil is innate in horses.............
same argument as humans nature or nurture. That horse could just be sporn of satan :)
 
having read the link that describes more of it, it seems rather sad. it was brought up in a house then unhandled for 3 years before being taken to this clinic. before this video was taken it sounds like it was sacked and ridden then they tried to do more. To go from being unhandled for 3 years to being ridden in a weekend is a lot to ask imo, would be interesting to know what would have happened if they had more time.

Im not saying sit in its stable for a week, but just remembering its a huge leap to take so quickly!

Sadly despite this, its probably so badly damaged by humans that being PTS is the best plan
 
jessie7 said:
That cowboy would have broken in hundreds of horses - I think he knew what he was doing.
Click to expand...
He clearly didn't, otherwise he would have avoided getting attacked like that! He provoked the horse into attacking him, ignoring all the warning signs and just carrying on with zero feel or sensitivity.
 
Merry Crisis said:
OK, now how would you have handled the situation?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't have got into a situation like that in the first place!

Have you come accoss many colts like that in your life?
Click to expand...
Very few, of course. However, I have known some pretty aggressive stallions - ones that attacked people out of the blue - they were gelded and, in one case, pts.

ETA: If you mean colts in the proper sense - entire males under the age of 4 - then the answer is none. All the aggressive stallions I have known were older than 4. Not sure what your point is though?
 
Last edited:
You don't have to beat a horse to create a monster though. Being too familiar without teaching and maintaining rules and boundaries (aka manners) from a young age is another way. I've no experience of bottle reared foals but I believe these aspects are especially important for them as well as time with other equines so they learn to be a horse.
 
What ever the reason, inbred, hand-reared, mollycoddled, brain damaged etc etc that cowboy was bloody lucky the horse then walked away otherwise he may not have done. Sadly through whatever fault that horse is way too dangerous to be around humans.

Mind you that moustache :eek: I don't blame the horse
 
I don't think that horse was having a normal reaction. Yes at first horse didn't like blanket on its back, understandable, but I would expected more of buck and flight response, but it was nasty. As it was hand reared it probably lacks the 'flight' response from humans more so than a normal horse. Yes the horse was giving warning signs but having dealt with many youngsters, i.e rugging them up for the first time I have never had a reaction like that, not even with bolshy horses. Its not normal for a horse to want to hurt a person like that, yes kick out maybe but to go at the face like for something so insignificant is disgusting.
Bear in mind if this horse was brought up 'in a house' it will have been used to being handled, so that is a complete over-reaction.
Basically, to me, it sees humans as other horses, and it can assert its dominance over them, like it would another horse, with is dangerous. It is the owners fault in the be all and end all, for not raising properly. A foster mare probably would of been the best thing for it, and getting it gelded.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top