Shoes off for TB's Winter break- worth it for only 8 wks?

rising_promise

rising_promise

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Hi all,

Of course I have in the past and will again discuss this with my farrier but he's training in America this week so after some opinions.

My 5yo ex racehorse has had a busy year (I got her last November). We've worked from scratch and she has been fantastic with wins in dressage and placings eventing (she's done 2 x ODE) so I want to give her a couple of months holiday and pick her back up again at Christmas. She's such a tryer and always done whatever I've thrown at her with great enthusiasm so I think she deserves a rest before (hopefully, fingers crossed!) starting a proper eventing season next year.

She has horrendous feet though. My farrier is very good (I know everyone says that!) and works hard to improve her feet but she has very soft/ thin soles- he says she has 'soles like fag papers' and so is prone to abscesses- she's had 3 since I've had her ( year). He has so little to nail to as she hardly grows any foot that she's a bit footy for a few days after she's shod.

I'm thinking about taking her shoes off for her break to try and harden her soles and encourage hoof growth but will it do any good for only a couple of months?

My farrier has always said the best thing to do with her would be to turn her away with no shoes for 6 months but that's just not practical so this is a compromise.

My previous horse only had shoes on to enable me put studs in to event in the Summer but she has rock crushing feet and was no different on any surface (soft/ hard/ stony) without shoes but my TB will be a different kettle of fish.

Will this be of any benefit to her feet even though only for a short period?

Thank you :)
 
Altho both of my horses are barefoot, in this case I would say that altho the time without shoes would do no harm, I don't think it will achieve what you are really looking for in terms of hoof hardening etc.

Hoof hardening would happen if the horse was being worked bare foot, on a variety of surfaces, but if going from being worked to being in a field at the softest ground time of year, it may have the opposite effect, or at least not the postive improvement. Whereas a six month period would allow the hooves to adjust and also cover harder ground time of the year enabling the hooves to harden and self wear.

TBH I would keep the shoes on in this case (tho it pains me to say it :-DD
 
There's no harm in trying, not helpful I know, but if there is prehaps a slight improvement then it's something you can work on.
 
To be honest for 8 weeks I don't think it will be beneficial. She will be footsore for the first week if not more (especially with thin soles) so personally, I wouldn't bother.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
TBH I would keep the shoes on in this case (tho it pains me to say it :-DD
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Me too :( Although I would completely change diet, and introduce ForagePlus (possibly using the Performance Balancer). After about 8 months of a low sugar/low starch diet with the ForagePlus, I'd ask the farrier how the feet are doing, and then consider removing the shoes as your farrier has suggested.

I would normally say barefoot, but in this case, with feet as bad as they are, removing the shoes and turning out will likely cause problems, and then trying to nail shoes on again after such a short break may make them worse :(

If I were you, I'd be planning ahead to try to give this horse a break from shoes. I know you want to compete and it's very inconvenient to have a horse you can't ride, but there's a longer term agenda here and if her feet are this bad aged 5, she won't have a long working life.
 
It helped my share horse. He had 3 months without shoes but was still worked lightly - barefoot in the school and in hoof boots for hacking. If nothing else it will mean that when she does have shoes again they nails aren't going back into the same sort of area and weakening the foot further. That was a big problem with ours, he was losing shoes after 3-4 weeks so the new nails were going so close to the old holes that there wasn't enough hoof between the two holes. They'd merge into a bigger hole, the shoe would get loose and we'd be back at sqaure one. Could you leave her another few weeks just to get as much growth going as possible? Most eventers don't start working again until mid-January so it would probably be plenty of time to get her fit and ready for the season?
 
I would first of all stop prioritising eventing her next season, she is only 5 so young enough to start the year after. If I were you I'd get her feet sorted first, if you are eventing next year with paper thin soles she'll probably be on and off lame anyway if she stands on the odd stone wrong.
 
It's not worth it for 8 weeks, a thin soled horse could struggle for a couple of months so essentially you could just be making your horse footsore. I'd sort the diet out and fix the feet as much as possible before removing shoes, then if you do you'll need to give it a few months for the foot to change angle and for the sole and the frog to harden up.
 
If your horses feet are as bad as you say they are then the horse needs it's shoes off and for a bit longer than 8 weeks.

Thick soles and healthy feet come from the correct diet, work on different surfaces and correct trimming.

Personally I'd pull the shoes and turn away for 8 weeks then bring back into work unshod with boots if required, alter diet/add supplements as required and take some time to improve her feet before reshoeing if you need to for cometition season starting.

I have 4 barefoot TB's, theres absolutely no reason for them to have such bad feet. The time you take now will benefit your horse in the long run, continuing to shoe/work a horse with terrible feet will only end in tears later down the line - believe me! I didnt deal with my mares feet and we ended up with a navicular diagnosis. If only I knew then what i know now....
 
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Lots of good advice and interesting ideas, thanks all.

As a few of you suggested, it might be worth bringing her back into work without shoes (using boots) if she's OK with this and then putting the shoes on at a later date.

She's fed on good quality grass and adlib haylage. Her hard feed is Alpha A, Allen and Page's Calm and Condition and micronised linseed. She also has supplements for her feet, tummy and joints. I have also just started with Keratex hoof gel.

She is kept assisted DIY at a livery yard and is out in the field during the day and in at night (was out overnight from May but they swap over routines for Winter, this happened last weekend).

She raced 27 times as a 2-4yo and came to me a year ago with terrible feet. I don't want to generalise about farriers in racing yards but the workmanship is not always great... My farrier has done a good job in rebalancing the feet and they are better than they were but still have a very long way to go.
 
I would be of the take the timeto really sort them now as I am too of the I wish I known what I know now camp . My tb is currently being rehabbed barefoot - doing really well but we ay have never got to this point if some action had been taken earlier
 
Scarlett said:
Personally I'd pull the shoes and turn away for 8 weeks then bring back into work unshod with boots if required, alter diet/add supplements as required and take some time to improve her feet before reshoeing if you need to for cometition season starting.
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This is what I was going to suggest.
 
3Beasties said:
This is what I was going to suggest.
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What I was going to suggest too.
8 weeks off unshod, then reintroduce work slowly using boots and try and keep unshod and working until you want to start eventing (and then shoe & stud for the season). Given horses age it may well be worth planning on just doing a half season and really sorting feet out now with the aim that it will only be a good thing long term?
 
NellRosk said:
I would first of all stop prioritising eventing her next season, she is only 5 so young enough to start the year after. If I were you I'd get her feet sorted first, if you are eventing next year with paper thin soles she'll probably be on and off lame anyway if she stands on the odd stone wrong.
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Couldn't agree more than with this. No rush, she's already done a lot, a winter of chilling out will do her and her system a world of good.

No foot, no horse, simples so give her time to get sorted out and sort out her diet as everything starts from within. Brewers yeast and linseed would definitely be on my shopping list and Formula4Feet worked incredibly well for one horse I had that had lousy feet similar to yours.
 
Thanks for all your comments. The more I read/ research the more I lean towards keeping her shoes off for as long as possible- I just didn't think she's going to cope too well with no shoes but hopefully she'll surprise me.

Obviously I will talk long and hard with the farrier before we do anything and will always do what's best for her but at the end of the day, I have her to be ridden and competed and I want her to be fit and well for this purpose so if this means persevering with the barefoot side of things and going down the boots route then that's what I'll do.

She already has a good low sugar and starch diet including brewers yeast and Linseed.

Thank you for your opinions :)
 
Try her without the alfalfa as some horses don't do well on it (it can affect their hooves).

There are some fabulous farriers working with racehorses, but don't forget that they are shod from such a young age while they are still growing. Being shod while their hooves should be changing shape from two year old diddy hooves to bigger adult hooves is one of the problems they face.

I also agree that sorting her hooves now will be hugely beneficial to her long term soundness.
 
I have a Tb also, and I think when he is older/semi retired we will try barefoot, but although he has (in appearance) fairly good feet, if he looses a shoe his feet tend to start crumbling! So although barefoot is something I would consider - it's something I would prep for, and have boots etc, rather than just removing the shoes.
 
Pigeon - you can always start feeding 'the barefoot diet' now as it's really just a sensible diet for all horses. It should improve his horn quality and a better hoof capsule should grow down. Of course you may already be feeding it, but maybe a slight tweak would help?
 
rising_promise said:
Hi Fi light any better or just the same?
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You really want no alfalfa at all to see if it makes a difference. You should see the new horn growing down under the coronet band looking 'tighter' if you get the diet right and stimulate the hooves with exercise (doing whatever the horse is comfortable doing).
 
Faracat said:
You really want no alfalfa at all to see if it makes a difference. You should see the new horn growing down under the coronet band looking 'tighter' if you get the diet right and stimulate the hooves with exercise (doing whatever the horse is comfortable doing).
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OK thank you. I'll cut it out and see if it makes a difference.
 
rising_promise said:
Nic, presumably both Star and Fig were shod when you got them?
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Yes they were both shod :)

CS had been shod 2-4yo and Fig 2-7yo.

ETA just to play devils advocate - CS gets a scoop of alfalfa a day with no detriment to feet/temperament etc. Fig however, goes completely loopy on it, although it didn't affect his feet at all. Would agree that for you and yours, it'd be a good idea to cut it out for the time being.
 
I know I sound as though I work for them (I don't ;) ), but the Forageplus approach is different to just feeding off-the-shelf supplements. If you are feeding supplements to a horse with poor feet, and the supplements are working, you should see a clear dividing line between when you started feeding and the horn growth before that month. I was feeding recommended supplements, plus joint support supplements for years, and although the hooves looked fine, horse still kept getting abscesses. I started feeding the Forageplus as a last resort (how different could it possibly be from what I was doing?), and within 6 weeks there was smooth, unridged, unflared hoof growth.

Sarah can make up a bespoke supplement that will cover hooves, digestion and joints if you speak to her - and it's well worthwhile, honestly. Nothing in 7 years has made this much difference to my horse :)
http://forageplus.co.uk/badminton-dream/
 
Like others, I'd be inclined to take the shoes off for the 8 weeks holiday then bring the horse back into work without shoes. This is actually how I transitioned my mare. She was due a holiday so I took her shoes off, sorted her out with a reasonably barefoot-friendly diet and turned her out for about 6 weeks. Then I brought her back into work slowly and found that she did really well without shoes, so kept them off.
 
I can second Forage plus particularly for poorer hooves or more sensitive/difficult/complex problems. Otherwise start with something like Pro Hoof. My tb still needs her grass and sugar intake watching carefully as well though.
 
My TB ex-racer has great feet. He was barefoot when I got him, but out of work - and even being on a low starch and sugar diet (has PSSM so was on that anyway!) he just didn't cope unshod. We do a lot of roadwork, but even in the sand school on circles he would look uncomfortable without shoes after the first six-eight weeks of work. He has been shod ever since, but has very good quality hoof and needs plenty of trimming!

Now, even the very odd occasion when he loses a shoe (think he's done it twice in a year, both times in thick mud when honing) he's still perfectly sound in front when he wasn't before. So possibly just work and time would have brought him through it, but as I like to have studs anyway I'll just keep the shoes. Good to know that in the future if the PSSM shivers get worse with age, that we should get away with just fronts or even barefoot.
 
I think it is worth it just , for eight weeks ,
My TBs due to be shod Monday when that set of shoes is ready to come off he will go BF he won't be rested he will have the shoes off and start work BF the next he will however have a change in work , he is hunting two days a week ATM when he's BF he will be doing flat work jumping in the school and hacking which I will match to how much his feet allow .
At the end of Feb he will be shod again in time to start XC schooling and stuff so he's ready for April , I will get a few days hunting in with him at the end of the season .
I would try bringing back up with out shoes for a while to increase the time the feet get a break for.
You should also consider using boots for a while .
I feed my horses Alfafa with no problems and you do need ways for getting enough food into TBs and alfalfa is a good tool in the box for that it combines well with speedibeet .
I learnt a lot from the Feet First book by Nic Barker it worth getting if you are thinking of having ago.
I had him BF a year ending last April his feet are due for a break so he can do stuff next summer.
 
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