Shortage of grooms?

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Since about mid-December I have seen a constant stream of adverts on my social media looking for grooms, either full time or part time, and for both local yards, equestrian centres, international riders and private yards.

Are there less people willing to work on yards now? or is it a seasonal fluctuation perhaps? Most seem to be offered at £10ph (or those that write it on the JD anyway), would that have a bearing on it now that that is basically minimum wage for a 23yo?

I am in the South East, I would be interested to know if it's the same elsewhere..

 

[teddy_]

A good friend of mine, who is a highly experienced competition groom has recently resigned from a 'top' dressage establishment because they refused to increase her hourly rate to £12ph, after years of loyal service. Shocking to be honest.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

A good friend of mine, who is a highly experienced competition groom has recently resigned from a 'top' dressage establishment because they refused to increase her hourly rate to £12ph, after years of loyal service. Shocking to be honest.

That really is shocking! Looking at your location, her previous employer is quite possibly one I have seen advertised.

 

[teddy_]

That really is shocking! Looking at your location, her previous employer is quite possibly one I have seen advertised.

You may be onto something ...

 

[dorsetladette]

I was made redundant years ago from an office job. I wanted to go back to yard work, but the pay was rubbish.

Then it snowed and I changed my mind

 

[Roxylola]

I think with rising fuel costs and general cost of living going up and up being a groom just doesn't pay enough. People have been willing to work ridiculously hard for low money because they love the job, but we've got to be able to get to work and to eat.

 

[Squeak]

I think with rising fuel costs and general cost of living going up and up being a groom just doesn't pay enough. People have been willing to work ridiculously hard for low money because they love the job, but we've got to be able to get to work and to eat.

Agree with this. Grooms have been on low pay for years (below min wage IME).

 

[j1ffy]

There's a shortage of people across almost all jobs at the moment - I work in management consulting and all our clients are really struggling to recruit highly-skilled resources. It's been well-documented that there are shortages in hospitality, care and HGV driving too so the scarcity is from minimum wage to six-figure salary jobs at the moment.

Looking at the equestrian industry specifically, it's a very tough job that requires specialist skills (and therefore a cost to gain skills before you can start to earn money) but only pays minimum wage. Career progression is possible but, as per the poster above's friend, an increase in responsibility is rarely matched by an increase in pay unless someone has the wherewithal and seed money to go it alone and set up a business. If you look at threads on here about whether to go into an equestrian career or not, the advice is usually 'don't do it - get a well-paid job and have horses as a hobby'.

I hate to say it, but until we all start paying more for livery / training the situation probably won't change!

 

[chaps89]

I have been looking for somewhere to basically work for rides, no one is interested.
I can do weekend and a particular weekday days so no, not as helpful as full time but I’d have thought I’d have had some interest.
Basically I miss having my hand in and riding lots of different types, I already freelance but that’s just sh*t shovelling, but I do know my way around a pro yard so I could be helpful to someone I’d have thought to do some mucking out etc in return for some riding (I ride to AM dressage and re-school projects for fun so I’m not totally useless I don’t think?!) ?‍

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I hate to say it, but until we all start paying more for livery / training the situation probably won't change!

I absolutely agree with you, but just out of interest, how much would you say is a reasonable amount to pay for a part/full livery that would allow appropriate payment for staff? Some yards in my area are around the £750-850pcm mark, with average but obviously well maintained facilities (ie: no indoor, no gallops/treadmill etc).

 

[teddy_]

I absolutely agree with you, but just out of interest, how much would you say is a reasonable amount to pay for a part/full livery that would allow appropriate payment for staff? Some yards in my area are around the £750-850pcm mark, with average but obviously well maintained facilities (ie: no indoor, no gallops/treadmill etc).

This is an interesting point but, the establishment I have referenced charge upwards of £1,000pcm for part livery so I don't think that is the 'issue' in the scenario I have mentioned.

 

[teapot]

Massive staffing crisis from small yards right up to the big training centres. If I had my coaching quals, I'd be laughing with job applications at the moment!

I hate to say it, but until we all start paying more for livery / training the situation probably won't change!

Except you run the risk of losing clients if prices become too high. Direct price increases aren't always the best answer (and I am speaking from experience here). Livery should be increased as few truly understand what a yard costs to run, but I'd be looking at upping the additional charges like bring in/turn out fees first. How or why any yard charges £2.50 to bring in is ridiculous. Doesn't come close to covering the cost of an employee for the time it takes.

 

[j1ffy]

This is an interesting point but, the establishment I have referenced charge upwards of £1,000pcm for part livery so I don't think that is the 'issue' in the scenario I have mentioned.

That's awful...I'm sure the non-staff costs are high but the main reason most people will pay higher livery costs is better care. I'd expect the centre to pay more for good staff, though I'm well-aware that the people management in many (in my experience, the vast majority of) yards is very poor.

Except you run the risk of losing clients if prices become too high. Direct price increases aren't always the best answer (and I am speaking from experience here). Livery should be increased as few truly understand what a yard costs to run, but I'd be looking at upping the additional charges like bring in/turn out fees first. How or why any yard charges £2.50 to bring in is ridiculous. Doesn't come close to covering the cost of an employee for the time it takes.

I agree but was thinking more of part / full livery with my comment. How DIY yards survive on the prices they charge is completely beyond me...

TBH I'm not sure how the industry can move towards a better pay environment given the current price-setting approach (i.e. no real approach in most places, just a 'what do others charge?' line of thinking) and lack of interest in paying well. It is clearly possible to charge more - there are plenty of yards in the £800+ range around me for part livery (i.e. everything except riding) - but most have remained in the £450-650 range for the 10+ years I've had horses nearby. My yard definitely undercharges for the standard of care received but I'm not going to be the one to tell my YO that YO does have the benefit of family land and on-site maintenance for free, which immediately reduces costs as there's no rent or mortgage to worry about but most yards don't have that luxury.

For those YOs who are business-savvy enough to charge a higher rate, the next challenge is the lack of will to pass that onto staff. Unless the British Grooms Associations and other bodies can come together to drive change, I'm not sure how it can be tackled. Perhaps the current scarcity of staff will drive a change in attitude, but I doubt it.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

It doesn’t pay enough and many places won’t let you have your horse on site. Many professional yards don’t want the grooms horses on site.

Also when I was a groom you would be mucking out stalls all day and exercising horses then go home to your own and I generally Couldn’t be bothered doing anything with them as I was sick of horses and saddles and mucking out. So my own horses got short shrift and I didn’t see the point in that.

 

[Cob Life]

I have seen a lot of groom jobs advertised but none are offering enough hours for it to be full time so when grooms are already paid a very low wage, low hours means making enough to live off is going to be almost impossible.

I do see one local yard in particular the last 2/3 years ALWAYS a advertising for grooms so I suspect (and have heard rumours) they may not be very good to work for but do offer the best hourly wage around here

 

[stangs]

The majority of liveries and RSes here are advertising - groom jobs, instructor jobs, yard managers. I had considered applying for a part time groom job but most places are offering only minimum wage and my current part time gig pays much better, is flexible as is WFH, there's not the same risk to your health as there is with horses, and working in a RS is soul-destroying to begin with.

Here, most people seem to be looking for full time workers but I can't imagine that it's easy surviving in London on a minimum wage with long hours. But, on the other hand, part time groom jobs tend to have very weird hours that it must be difficult to work around to find other jobs.

Also think it doesn't help when jobs put "must not have a 9-5 mentality" on the ad after saying they're only offering 10 quid an hour.

 

[blitznbobs]

Most ads I see are kinda along the lines of 'I'm going to make you work like a dog, as fast as you can, and pay you minimum wage for the privilege and you should be bloody glad I've even thought to employ you...

Offer people better money or better perks or nicer working conditions and they queue up literally (I had 11 applicants for my private groom position recently and I had a really hard time choosing between the top 3... My groom is really good, thorough and reliable so I'm a happy bunny).

 

[PeterNatt]

I would suggets that there has been a decrease in the number of people who wish to work as a groom on a yard as a lot more people wishing to work within the equine industry go on from school to further education and do an equine related course. Having qualified they can find higher paid jobs within the equine industry such as teaching, working for insurance companies or equine supply companies etc. where the positions are better paid and with more prospects of promotion. In the South East I would suggest that an entry level employed groom working a 5 day week (8 hours per day) needs to be on a salary of no less that £35K per year minimun which is about £17 per hour.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I would suggets that there has been a decrease in the number of people who wish to work as a groom on a yard as a lot more people wishing to work within the equine industry go on from school to further education and do an equine related course. Having qualified they can find higher paid jobs within the equine industry such as teaching, working for insurance companies or equine supply companies etc. where the positions are better paid and with more prospects of promotion. In the South East I would suggest that an entry level employed groom working a 5 day week (8 hours per day) needs to be on a salary of no less that £35K per year minimun which is about £17 per hour.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all, but that's £5833 you have to find, per month (not including holiday and sickness cover) just for two full time grooms.. or the equivalent of 8 liveries at £750pcm just to cover staff costs.. It's just never going to happen.

 

[Otherwise]

Agree with this. Grooms have been on low pay for years (below min wage IME).

Yep, I got fed up working 60+ hour weeks but only being paid for 40hrs at NMW. A half day was 6 hours, most full days were 12 hours and we sometimes didn't have time for breaks. Freelance the pay is better but horse people aren't known for their people skills and professionalism.

 

[mariew]

I think generally people aren't prepared to work really hard for pittance anymore. A lot of people have reassessed what they want out of life after covid too. Plus without evidence I am guessing it's now much harder to recruit staff from the EU who previously filled some of these posts.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Pay is poor but people also want a life outside of their work. A lot of employees seem to want people to work ridiculous hours and don’t even treat good staff well to make it an nice place to work.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I would suggets that there has been a decrease in the number of people who wish to work as a groom on a yard as a lot more people wishing to work within the equine industry go on from school to further education and do an equine related course. Having qualified they can find higher paid jobs within the equine industry such as teaching, working for insurance companies or equine supply companies etc. where the positions are better paid and with more prospects of promotion. In the South East I would suggest that an entry level employed groom working a 5 day week (8 hours per day) needs to be on a salary of no less that £35K per year minimun which is about £17 per hour.

That’s ridiculous salary for entry level. In my organisation a warranted officer with usually a minimum of a first degree starts on 22K. For an experienced groom with specialist skills and or a management role I’d agree.

 

[teapot]

For those YOs who are business-savvy enough to charge a higher rate, the next challenge is the lack of will to pass that onto staff. Unless the British Grooms Associations and other bodies can come together to drive change, I'm not sure how it can be tackled. Perhaps the current scarcity of staff will drive a change in attitude, but I doubt it.

Scarcity of staff and minimum wage going up will do something, but I can see people dodging it through 'we pay you less but free livery for your horse' etc.

I would suggets that there has been a decrease in the number of people who wish to work as a groom on a yard as a lot more people wishing to work within the equine industry go on from school to further education and do an equine related course. Having qualified they can find higher paid jobs within the equine industry such as teaching, working for insurance companies or equine supply companies etc. where the positions are better paid and with more prospects of promotion. In the South East I would suggest that an entry level employed groom working a 5 day week (8 hours per day) needs to be on a salary of no less that £35K per year minimun which is about £17 per hour.

HAHAHAHAHA £35k for an entry level groom? Us well qualified experienced ops/office managers aren't even on that! I know of one place that pays senior coaches who are also management just over £30k a year salaried but that's very rare (and the office manager isn't!).

To have those salaries being paid each month you need vast income coming in and reliably too.

 

[Ceifer]

So many grooms jobs are just miserable these days.

Not many offer riding, which for me when I was a groom was the best perk of the job. Every grooms job I had included decent riding, whether that was the chance to compete, hunt, train, backing/breaking etc.
These days very few get to ride so it is literally the sh*T jobs.

 

[McGrools]

Groom = shit shoveller and general dogsbody.
A job requiring a very high level of fitness and stamina, qualities which i fear are sometimes less available amongst the young people of today.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

A job as a stable hand has typically been low paid for many years. in my day, you took the job in order to gain experience and to 'work with horses'. It was long hours and hard work. However, once you have the experience you can earn very good money as a freelance rider, clipping, teaching etc.

 

[Ceifer]

Groom = shit shoveller and general dogsbody.
A job requiring a very high level of fitness and stamina, qualities which i fear are sometimes less available amongst the young people of today.

I disagree- I think there are a lot of fit people out there with the stamina to do it but they quite rightly, don’t want to put up with the poor pay and bad conditions when you can earn more working in Lidl or Aldi.

or when the apprenticeships actually lead to job progression. My partners company offer construction apprenticeships that are predominantly site based rather that in the office and apprentices are doing physical jobs. The basic apprentice wage is 19.5k. They are tied into working with the company after qualifying but they then jump up to 26.5k as standard

 

[BronsonNutter]

In the South East I would suggest that an entry level employed groom working a 5 day week (8 hours per day) needs to be on a salary of no less that £35K per year minimun which is about £17 per hour.

£5k a year MORE than I was earning as a full time (and then some, + an on call rota) equine vet in the south east? And that wasn't as a new grad either. I don't know how people who work minimum wage jobs in the south can afford to live tbh.

Grooms pay is rubbish, but then I have seen lots of livery yard grooms who don't seem to view it as a 'real' job - i.e. they can just not turn up if it's raining, no need to work out their notice period etc. Which must be incredibly frustrating for yard owners.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I don't know how people who work minimum wage jobs in the south can afford to live tbh.

I said this at work to my CEO the other day when it was being discussed how we could get a better quality of work from our staff. My suggestion of 'well perhaps allowing them to earn enough to pay their mortgages' was met with a steely look in my direction.