Should emergency services slow down?

[OWLIE185]

I have to tell you that when I have been riding in Central London all the emergency vehicles have slowed down and switched off their horns and lights when approaching me. Why cause an accident on the way to an accident?

 

[Quantock-cob]

We have to hack past a small rural fire station when we leave our yard and before we get into the village. I have met the fire engine coming out twice, but they have always turned off the lights and sirens until we have passed. I have also met ambulances on the 60 limit road that we sometimes ride on and they have always turned off sirens. I do feel a bit guilty actually as I hope it doesn't hold them up getting to an emergency.

We also have the air ambulance land on the football field next to our yard if there is a bad accident on the main road. I know that other people on the yard have been worried about the noise upsetting the horses. But at the weekend I could see from my house that it was coming in to land and so watched all 4 horses who were out in the paddock which is next to the football field. Not one of them charged about. My cob looked up and was obviously thinking that is a big bird - but then he carried on eating. But then, he did used to live on Salisbury common and often met tanks a military vehicles.

 

[monkeybum13]

Just out of interest how many people would wave an emergency vehicle on if they know they are on a horse that won't bat an eyelid? (By waving on I mean tell them it's ok to pass at speed)

I have.

Riding along a single width narrow country lane. Fire engine came up behind with sirens and lights off. I trotted on to the closest laybay. Driver was a bit hesitant because it was narrow so I waved him on, lots of thanks from firemen. All fine.

 

[Marydoll]

For me Lights and sirens should be switched off for the short time to pass, speed should be assessed on size of road where the horse and rider is, ( are they safely in a layby or drive way ) if it safe to pass at speed then by all means do so, i would expect it on a main road, but on a single track or narrow road with nowhere to go, yes id expect them to switch off and slow down if there was nowhere for riders to go .... Ive had this with a firetruck passing, we were on a main road but put ourselves into a driveway, they passed all guns blazing and while the horses did a dance, both behaved and remained under control, had we been on the road, it mightve been a different story, id like to think theyd assess and adjust on what they see the riders horses doing

 

[Lego]

As far as I know, the emergency services do have a responsibility to drive safely and therefore to pass horses safely.

Every emergency services vehicle I've come across with the horses has been great fortunately. Whenever they've seen me, they've turned off lights and sirens until they're past, and generally slow down a bit until either I wave them on, pull in asap out of the way, or they can clearly see we're fine and they speed up again - or a combination

My old boy was an absolute star when we nearly got hit by an ambulance - blind corner, parked cars on the road etc. Heard ambulance but couldn't work out where it was coming from, then it came round the corner all guns blazing, overtaking parked cars so pretty much on our side of the road... One of those moments where you blink and it'll either be fine or not and there isn't anything you can do - saw the driver hit the brake and close her eyes too! Fortunately uber cob didn't flinch and kept the baby we were with blocked in despite hysterics. Gave the driver the thumbs up to keep going and saw her dramatically wipe her brow! Eep! Never been so glad of the ploddy cob

Probably not possible for most people, but managed to test new cob's response to sirens etc - waiting on little lane for hacking buddy to come out of the yard when ambulance went past everything including horn blaring on the main road. No reason for them to do anything - they wouldn't even have known we were there! Coblet flinched but didn't go anywhere - but guess he had heard it all before with the yard near the main road

Out of interest...does anyone know whether there is any guidance on how they are supposed to pass other vulnerable road users e.g. cyclists? Presumably a person is less likely to be startled by lights and sirens, but with the speed they sometimes go, I'd hope they would slow down a little if they were overtaking me on a bike...

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Lego, they have to take the same care that every other road user has to take. However, these guys are highly skilled and have on going training. A friend is a fire fighter who drives to emergency callouts and he's the safest driver I've ever known.
If you've attended RTA's and scraped people off the road, you tend to be more careful around vunerable road users.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Difficult question.
Part of me says no they shouldn't. You shouldn't be out on the road unless you're pretty sure of yourself and your mount and in which case, you generally get plenty of advance warning they are coming.
Then the other half of me says why cause another emergency, while responding to another one?

That said, the emergency services are people and at least they are out TRYING to do a job with the safety of others in mind. They are unlikely to WANT to cause horseriders distress.

 

[weebarney]

They should back off and ideally turn sirens off until past you in my opinion from a health and safety pov if nothing else. All the emergency services round here seem to be good as far as passing horses is concerned. My husband actually is a fire brigade driver and they all got invited to some riding stables a while back to handle horses and learn about them mainly from a rescue point of view but i'm sure it would have helped to make them see how vulnerable riders are and that horses are not robots that are invincible to every sight and sound. Maybe you could invite them round to see and handle your horse?

 

[Clodagh]

I had a fire engine fly past me on my old mare, it did turn off lights and siren. I was on a main road and she didn't bat an eyelid.
My new horse isn't great in traffic and I don't ride him on busy roads, if I heard one coming up our lane I would turn tail and trot/canter like mad to get to a gateway. It isn't like you don't get any warning of them coming so you should be able to get out of the way.

 

[Polos Mum]

Siren/ light should only be used to alert other roal users to the presence of the emergency services, so most of the time they are switched off anyway, it's only if they are comming up to a roundabout or traffic that they put them on to effectively ask people to move over - so unless your riding in a built up area it should just be a fast vehicle going past nothing more.

Although it's a bug bear of my OH (police) that ambulance drivers seem to forget this part of their training quite a bit.

 

[diamonddogs]

Siren/ light should only be used to alert other roal users to the presence of the emergency services, so most of the time they are switched off anyway, it's only if they are comming up to a roundabout or traffic that they put them on to effectively ask people to move over - so unless your riding in a built up area it should just be a fast vehicle going past nothing more.

Although it's a bug bear of my OH (police) that ambulance drivers seem to forget this part of their training quite a bit.

Yes, my understanding was that the blues and twos are supposed to be used to let you know they're coming. Our yard's situated on a decently wide and straight road, which ends up at a busy motorway interchange, and I've often seen emergency vehicles driving past at speed on their way to a shout without lights/sirens if there are no other vehicles on the stretch of road.

 

[Rhodders]

A similar thing happened to me a few years back with an ambulance, he just didn't slow down, turn off the lights or the sirens and my horse leapt in to the road in front of him - he swerved nearly hit the hedge on the other side of the road while me and my horse bolted up the main road in blind panic.
I phoned them to complain, they said there was no emergency in the area at the time and couldn't trace the driver.
Neither me, or my horse have ever really been the same riding on roads since, really really scary.
You could try reporting it, not sure what the rules on it are though

 

[rascal]

The ones that have passed me over the years (used to keep our horses on a very busy main road) have slowed and switched off lights and sirens.

 

[Dry Rot]

Interesting thread. I wonder what they do when coming up to a school, with flashing lights and warning signs telling motorists to slow down to 20mph?

Years ago I worked in an office opposite a fire station. A fire engine came screaming down the road with sirens wailing and lights flashing -- and turned straight into the station. I suppose he was late for tea break! What else?

 

[YorksG]

The Blues and twos are there as a safety measure, I echo what was said above about them not being necessary all the time the vehicle is responding to an emergency. If the sirens cause an accident then they are most obviously NOT being used for their true purpose

 

[weebarney]

Although it's a bug bear of my OH (police) that ambulance drivers seem to forget this part of their training quite a bit.

I've noticed that too, we got woke up one morning about 5am with an ambulance using blues and two's, no traffic out or anything

 

[indie999]

I've noticed that too, we got woke up one morning about 5am with an ambulance using blues and two's, no traffic out or anything

They are in a no win situation as if someone pulls out(& I know how dozey I have been coming off a night shift years ago or just general doziness in the morning) and they kill someone the argument will be why didnt you have your lights and sirens on when on an emergency call. They are on their way to an emergency, end of. They are there as a warning to road users and pedestrians.

Can I ask a silly question, can a horse hear things from a long way?I know mine always heard cyclists on peaceful bridleways about 10minutes before they crept up on us! So a siren I guess they hear it from miles away too?? Perhaps or not?? I would be wondering why he was being a bit different and then low and behold a cyclist would whiz past ages later. It never failed to amaze me that he just knew. So a siren I suppose he heard that leave the station?

 

[bouncingbean]

I think they should always turn the siren off to pass but as for speed I think it depends on the individual circumstances.
Wherever possible horse and rider should move out the way as quickly as possible so the vehicle can continue to the emergency quickly and safely, but if they are unable to do this I think the vehicle should slow a bit in order to pass safely and to avoid another potential accident. I still wouldn't expect them to slow down as much as regular traffic though, just ease off a bit.
I have only met an emergency vehicle once whilst out hacking. It was a fire engine on route to a fire, they had sirens and lights going as they first approached but as soon as they saw us they turned them off and slowed, it was quite a wide road and we moved onto the verge so waved them on, was thanked by the bloke driving and horses behaved impeccably.

 

[Polos Mum]

I'd hazard a guess that some of the reaction of some horses is a reaction to the rider tensing in addition to the noise, one of my fields is right next to a busy main A road which does get emergancy vehicles on it from time to time - they don't even stop grazing, of course it's different when they are coming right behind them but if you tense expecting them to react they wonder what you're scared of and start to look for things to react to - the classic horse spooking circle!
Same with helicopters and low flying aircraft - here in Lincs we get a lot, especially now the displays are starting back up again, I've ridden with people who leap off and hold bridle for grim death when a spitfire comes over low - horse is just looking quizically at the rider wondering where the fire is!

 

[Holly Hocks]

Yes emergency vehicles on the way to calls should slow down according to the conditions - that is the way they are taught to drive. My OH was a traffic officer for several years (most of his police career). Eg - if they are passing a school on the way to a job, you don't drive past at excessive speed no matter what the situation you are on way to. They are taught to evaluate the situation. There is no point in potentially causing a further collision.

 

[FireFly29]

They should turn off sirens and slow down, if they cause an accident they have to stop.
I wouldn't make a complaint about it, but I would ring your local brigade and express your concerns.

 

[maresmaid]

Cant quote cos am on phone but HBM1 mentioned the air ambulance approaching with riders nearby. I would just like to say that when we had to call the air ambulance to our yard to take a casualty to hospital we had to remove all the horses to another field as they are not allowed to land in the field if there are horses in it. It would make absolutely no sense if emergency services could drive to a call out with a single minded mission to focus only on the situation at their destination with absolutely no regard for the safety of any other road users they encounter along the way, they should pass horses with caution, in the same way that they should ensure that they dont skittle cyclists or leave the bodies of little old ladies and children strewn by the roadside because they couldnt get out of the way fast enough or didnt hear them coming. The fact that someone is driving an emergency service vehicle does not give them a right to risk the lives of any other road user whilst enroute to the emergency.

 

[Holly Hocks]

in the same way that they should ensure that they dont skittle cyclists or leave the bodies of little old ladies and children strewn by the roadside because they couldnt get out of the way fast enough

I know I shouldn't laugh, but I did laugh at this - I formed a hilarious picture in my mind!