Should I buy her?

[ktj1891]

I will try and keep this as short and clear as I can.

My pony was on breeding loan a few years back and she had a filly. Said filly is now 4 and with another owner who wants to sell.

Said filly had lameness issues last year. First visit in Jan 18 was apparently bruising so had a week box rest and was fine. Vet came back out later in month due to riding difficulties which showed bilateral lameness, no lameness on straight but lameness on outside hinds on circle on soft surface. It looks like they nerve blocked to both stifles. I then think vet referred for arthroscopy for query OCD in May 18. The arthroscopy showed no abnormalities but some soft cartilage which apparently is normal for a young horse. Said filly was then given cortisone injections and shod all round as recommended by Osteo due to back issues from a poor fitting saddle.

Pony has been sound since and overall ridden work has dramatically improved from not wanting to move and rearing to being forward and happy. As such the lameness is pretty inconclusive. Would I be mad to take a chance and buy her knowing the risks?

PS. I have spoken to vet about pre-purchase lameness work up. She has advised a 5* but also concerns at a 4 year old having an arthroscopy. She has asked for full vets history and referral notes, so I will obviously go with their recommendation but curious to have other peoples opinions.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I wouldn't. Insurance will be near impossible, so many exclusions and shes had cortisone injections before 4? mmm.

What is she advertised for?

It would be to much of a gamble and worry for me.
I suppose you have a personal connection to her that we won't so can give you our views. Deep down you know the horse but thats alot to of happened before even 4.

 

[SpringArising]

Not in a million years if you want a riding horse or are thinking of breeding from her in future. If you want an expensive field ornament, yes!

 

[9tails]

I suspect too much too soon, bearing in mind she's only 4 and had lameness last year along with a badly fitting saddle. Poor love. I wouldn't spend much at all if you're set on buying, definitely under £1k and more like £1, knowing that early abuse may make her prone to issues and expense throughout her life.

 

[be positive]

I am guessing she is now 5 not 4, not that it makes much difference other than if she is just 4 she must have been started rather early and in a badly fitting saddle which would make me question everything that the owners have done.
As for you buying, why do you want her, if it is purely because of the fact she is out of your mare and not because she ticks the boxes for your next horse then walk away because she is not your mare and will be a totally different prospect.
I would see what your vet says once they have reviewed the history, I would not have a 5 stage but would have a lameness assessment first because it will be far more thorough and targeted on the history, the other checks can be done afterwards if required but why pay for them if she is not going to pass the lameness checks.

We all take gambles at times, this may be less of one than many of us take in many ways, we do at times allow our hearts to make poor decisions that our heads would not let us do so I think most of us will know how difficult it is to walk away in this type of situation, just make sure you have a plan b if she ends up unable to do the job for you.

 

[Goldenstar]

Stifle issues are very very bad to manage I would not go there .

 

[MrsMozart]

No.

ETA: As in No, wouldn't buy her. I've had two from the same age-ish. Lost both to lameness issues that couldn't be fixed and were only going to get much worse for each horse.

 

[ktj1891]

I am guessing she is now 5 not 4, not that it makes much difference other than if she is just 4 she must have been started rather early and in a badly fitting saddle which would make me question everything that the owners have done.
As for you buying, why do you want her, if it is purely because of the fact she is out of your mare and not because she ticks the boxes for your next horse then walk away because she is not your mare and will be a totally different prospect.
I would see what your vet says once they have reviewed the history, I would not have a 5 stage but would have a lameness assessment first because it will be far more thorough and targeted on the history, the other checks can be done afterwards if required but why pay for them if she is not going to pass the lameness checks.

We all take gambles at times, this may be less of one than many of us take in many ways, we do at times allow our hearts to make poor decisions that our heads would not let us do so I think most of us will know how difficult it is to walk away in this type of situation, just make sure you have a plan b if she ends up unable to do the job for you.

Yes she was started far too young at 3 which the owner has admitted due to yard owner pressures and also providing an ill fitting saddle and being on a yard that had no winter turnout. So a culmination of things that haven't given her the best start. If I am being brutally honest I wasn't looking for a horse at all, as I already have her retired mother which is an expense in itself. However, over the years this owner has always offered the said filly to me when she has thought she was not able to keep her. She has recently re-offered her to me and this time I have considered it.

The intention would be to have her, iron out some issues she has, have some fun with her for a few months and hopefully sell her own in the near future as a riding pony.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

My first mare was backed to young, she went on to be diagnosed with kissing spine, hock arthritis all at a young age before 8 and was PTS at 9. Starting them to young really does them no favors.

I can't see she'd be worth a gamble to buy and sell on, no one would buy a pony with that previously list of problems surely.

 

[ester]

Even more or a bit if you intend to sell her on IMO.

 

[9tails]

Yes she was started far too young at 3 which the owner has admitted due to yard owner pressures and also providing an ill fitting saddle and being on a yard that had no winter turnout. So a culmination of things that haven't given her the best start. If I am being brutally honest I wasn't looking for a horse at all, as I already have her retired mother which is an expense in itself. However, over the years this owner has always offered the said filly to me when she has thought she was not able to keep her. She has recently re-offered her to me and this time I have considered it.

The intention would be to have her, iron out some issues she has, have some fun with her for a few months and hopefully sell her own in the near future as a riding pony.

I'd say no. I'm sure she was a reasonable prospect before she was knackered but you weren't interested then. This is a heartstring pull. If the lameness is unsolvable you'd have another retired field ornament.

 

[paddi22]

You mightn't be able to sell her on if any of her issues reoccur or become known. No-one would touch her with a barge pole. If you got the horse for free/nominal sum and had space in your field for a project, and also had the time/money to look into issues then it might be a project. But you would have to be really realistic in that the chances of reselling or even having a rideable horse are slim, and take her on with that in mind.

 

[be positive]

I would not buy her as a project to sell on, you may iron out the issues but her history of lameness should be declared and I think that will make selling her honestly rather hard, I might consider an arrangement where they remain as owners and pay you to work on her, sell her and split the sale price, not many people would see that as a good deal but it may be their best way out.

 

[Cortez]

No. A vet bill on legs.

 

[jj_87]

nope, especially if you want to sell her on, increasingly vets are asked to provide all notes on a horse for a pre purchase exam, and this would make most purchasers run for the hills. Unless the price was very cheap, but then any value you add would be removed.

 

[Hipo]

Absolutely not. There must be hundreds of horses you could buy as a project with no lameness issues.

 

[Pinkvboots]

To buy and sell on no way I wouldn't even consider it with that history.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I think you're on a hiding to nothing as a buy and sell project as I can't see you ever recouping your costs, even if she were to stay sound enough to sell on.

 

[SpringArising]

I suspect too much too soon, bearing in mind she's only 4 and had lameness last year along with a badly fitting saddle. Poor love. I wouldn't spend much at all if you're set on buying, definitely under £1k and more like £1, knowing that early abuse may make her prone to issues and expense throughout her life.

And what evidence do you have for your claims?

 

[ktj1891]

I have now had her full vets notes sent to me.

January 18 - Vet was first called in because she wasn't going forward and unhappy in her work. Vet determined 2/10 lame in RH and on hard surface in straight line, nothing on palpation to leg but positive reaction to hoof testers (quite aggressively so couldn't test other hind hoof) but fine in front. Also painful and tight in back muscles. Advised rest and shoeing due to white feet!

February 18 - now has bilateral lameness but only on circle on soft surface. All three compartments of RH stifle blocked which resulted in 2/10 LH lameness. Radio graphs unremarkable. Suspected OCD.

Start of March 18 - injected in stifles with cortisone.

End of March 18 - a lot freer moving and back pain resided. Sound on straight line and RH hind on circle, improved LH but still mild lameness.

Mid-May 18 - still lame 2/10 on hard straight and circle.

End May 18 - arthroscopy showed no abnormalities, some soft cartilage.

Mid-June 18 - trots up sound.

Jul 18 - still mild lame on both hinds on soft circle.

Aug 18 - still lame bilaterally behind on lunge.

In August is when owner told me she then had her shod all round as advised by Osteo and since then she has been sound and a lot happier and forward to ride and has had no issues since! Gahhh!!

 

[blitznbobs]

Nope - unless you like stress and heart ache - If I was a betting person I’d put money on her failing a 5 stage vetting

 

[Goldenstar]

This is not a project horse unless the type of project you like is one to keep vets in employment

 

[SpringArising]

Wouldn't touch with a bargepole. What is it that's making you want her?

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Definitely wouldn't own her even if she was given to me for free after seeing those vets notes. Poor girl. Sounds like lots is underlying if you ask me.

The owners 'sound' may be completely different to a vets 'sound' mind. Anything to sell the horse. Can't see that passing a 3* let alone 5*

Are you buying her or being given her?

 

[DabDab]

No, I absolutely would not buy her on the basis of those notes. The pony sounds like she has a significant problem in her hind feet/legs that they've temporarily resolved by putting some shoes on.

 

[ihatework]

I’m normally quite open minded.
But even I wouldn’t go there

 

[Flyermc]

I know its not the OP's fault, but i really feel sorry for the horse

OP have you been to see her and had a look are what she's like today? If the xrays haven't shown anything up (it doesnt seem there was much that has shown up on investigations) her back is no longer sore (if it was from a saddle) and she's currently sound, would she really be that much of a bad purchase?

Its strange that the lameness has been managed with shoes, could it have been poor barefoot management along with a badly fitted saddle?

 

[twiggy2]

Who says she is sound?
Mind you regardless of that I don't understand buying a horse that tugs at your heart strings just to sell it on...

 

[ktj1891]

This is not a project horse unless the type of project you like is one to keep vets in employment

She is my mare's offspring. I wouldn't consider have considered her at all otherwise. I wasn't aware of her issues in full until the past few days. I only knew she query had OCD but the arthroscopy showed no pathology.

 

[ktj1891]

I know its not the OP's fault, but i really feel sorry for the horse

OP have you been to see her and had a look are what she's like today? If the xrays haven't shown anything up (it doesnt seem there was much that has shown up on investigations) her back is no longer sore (if it was from a saddle) and she's currently sound, would she really be that much of a bad purchase?

Yes I went to see her last weekend. She was a little grumpy on the ground but nothing serious, didn't appear sore when I felt her back, shes twitchy when you touch her mane because she doesn't like it being pulled and has obviously had it done so made her resentful, shes not great at mounting block either. All issues in training I would say. I rode her up the drive and back and she was very forwards, trotted her a short distance and felt ok to me.

This is it, she could have just been footsore as I believe the yard she was at previously had rich grass and didn't allow any restriction. She is cob x NF x Appaloosa, so a good doer anyways. However, it is risky to take this viewpoint in case I am wrong.