Should I get legal help after horse purchase?

[silkec]

I bought a 5-year old warmblood mare in December 2013. According to the seller, she had been left late to mature, and mostly been long reined and worked in Hand. I have seen her ridden and have been riding her before the purchase. The mare had a good 5-stage vetting prior purchase.I also ordered a custom made saddle at the time of purchase, which took 2 months to be made. In that time, the mare was worked in Hand. In March, we first started working with the saddle for 2 weeks, and then I started mounting and riding her like an unbroken youngster. Everything seemed fine for about a month. By then, I worked in all 3 gaits with simple exercises. In a matter of about 2 weeks, she suddenly started behaving funny when getting on. I was bucked of without warning three times. Unfortunately I had a very hard fall with the third bucking and broke my hip. One day after the accident, I had a physiotherapist looking at the mare, who immediately mentioned a problem with the sacroiliac area as the was hyper-sensitive in the area and dropping her hip as well as slightly dragging her hind legs. She also was convinced that the mare had been covered before as her teets are quite large. The vet confirmed after an internal examination that the mar was no longer "intact", and that her uterus was slightly large but didn't want to give me in writing that she had been used as a broodmare. The mare also had a full set of spinal x-rays showing no problems in that area. The mare was put on Regumate, rested for a month and moved now to a training yard. I also had the blood , taken during the 5-stage vetting, tested for drugs with a negative result. After a week of training, she showed once more signs of dropping her hip. The vet nerve blocked the entire lower leg without any improvement. Now, I am facing an expensive bone scan, which I can only afford due to the mare's insurance. I have been told that this looks very much like a case of someone selling a horse, which is not fit for purpose, and that I should force the seller to show the mare's full medical history. I don't have the finances for an expensive lawyer, and I am still recovering from surgery after the hip fracture.

 

[Lynsey&Smartie]

I would imagine that if you saw her ridden prior to purchase and rode her yourself and she behaved with no problems (and you know she was not drugged due to the blood test at the vetting) that it would be very difficult to prove that she had a pre-existing condition when you purchased her that the vendor was aware of.

You have had her for 6 months and have had a month of work with no problems so I would be questioning whether she has injured herself maybe in the field or whether she has developed a condition in the time you have owned her.

Did you ask the vendor if she had had any physical issues or whether she has had a foal in the past? I'm not really sure whether the foal issue is relevant TBH.

You could always ask to see her medical history, if they have nothing to hide they may well give it to you.

 

[Stroppy Mare]

Second the above and also get her saddle checked - it could be a factor in her problems. Not all M2M are fitted correctly and at 5 it's likely that after having 2 months out of work, since fitting, that she changed shape and a month down the line of being ridden in it has changed again.

 

[twiggy2]

after this amount of time I fail to see why you would think any of the issues are anything to do with the previous owner.

when you bought the mare she was rideable you have had her 6months and now she is not rideable

 

[Fides]

I'm afraid I am with the others - 6 months is too long and likely the problems have occurred since you have had her. If you had the saddle m2m when she was out of work it likely doesn't fit now and has been causing issues. Have you had the sale rechecked since she has been in work?

 

[dogatemysalad]

Agree with the other's.
I'd also say that it isn't unusual for a nice mare to have a foal before starting ridden work. I bought a DWB who was started late after having a colt, although the foal was documented on her passport.

Good luck with getting your horse's issues sorted.

 

[silkec]

Thanks for all of you getting back!
We obviously had the saddle checked, and since the horse showed symptoms after riding it not even a month, the vet feels that there are underlying issues which could point at something "fishy". The physio was back today and also commented that might have had a previous pregnancy.

I realize that it is quite difficult to respond without knowing the entire history, therefore, I will rather try speak to one of the BD lawyers.
Does anyone know of an equine lawyer working on a no-win-no-fee basis?

 

[MissTyc]

Did the seller ever specify that she has NOT had a foal and was this important to you at the time?
Many nice warmblood mares are covered at 2 years and are then grown to maturity with foal at foot, so weaning would have been last summer (3-4 months before you bought her?). This should not lead to any later concerns, however. A hip/SI injury can easily occur at any stage in a young horse

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The horse passed a 5 stage vetting and the bloods were clear, so you need to prove that there was a pre-existing condition that the Vet missed (and did not occur after you bought her). That's a very tall order 6 months down the line.

 

[Fides]

The horse passed a 5 stage vetting and the bloods were clear, so you need to prove that there was a pre-existing condition that the Vet missed (and did not occur after you bought her). That's a very tall order 6 months down the line.

This.

And why is her previously having a foal an issue? As long as she is not currently in foal tmit has no bearing.

I don't think a no win no fee lawyer would even look at this case - there has to be a strong chance of winning for that.

After 6 months it could be argued that your actions have caused the problems, unless you can find proof that the horse acted this way in the previous home. Without this proof it it likely going to be that you will lose tha case on the basis that you cause the issues (or they developed) in the 6 months of your care.

For any action you need proof that they misled you

 

[twiggy2]

The physio was back today and also commented that might have had a previous pregnancy.

I cannot think of a reason this would be relevant

 

[AmyMay]

Can't imagine you have any comeback. Did you ask if the mare had been covered?

 

[ihatework]

Some times you just have to suck it up and accept you may have purchased a dud.
Most experienced horse people have been there and got the t shirt.

I cannot see how you will have any comeback on the seller, well I certainly hope not anyway.

 

[silkec]

Can't imagine you have any comeback. Did you ask if the mare had been covered?

Yes, and according to them, she hasn't been covered.
My vet confirmed though that she is no longer "intact", that her uterus is enlarged, and that her teets are unusually long and flat.

 

[twiggy2]

.
My vet confirmed though that she is no longer "intact", that her uterus is enlarged, and that her teets are unusually long and flat.

but why is that relevant?

 

[cptrayes]

To be blunt, it's people like you who make me scared of selling a horse these days.

Whether she has previously had a foal or not is irrelevant and sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to send her back.

I can't see one single reason why you assume that her current behaviour is any fault of the seller whatsoever. She's probably just hurt herself since you bought her. I know a mare who broke her pelvis overnight in a stable, things happen to horses. I feel sorry for the sellers for the stress you are giving them.

I feel sorry for you too, but I'm afraid that's horses for you

 

[Meandtheboys]

To be blunt, it's people like you who make me scared of selling a horse these days.

Whether she has previously had a foal or not is irrelevant and sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to send her back.

I can't see one single reason why you assume that her current behaviour is any fault of the seller whatsoever. She's probably just herself since you bought her. I know a mate who broke her pelvis overnight in a stable, things happen to horses. I feel sorry for the sellers for the stress you are giving them.

I feel sorry for you too, but I'm afraid that's horses for you

Exactly................

 

[YasandCrystal]

It sounds like an SI injury that can happen at anytime. If he was moving well before and the blood tests were negative this all points to a recent injury. There is hope for rehabbing an SI injury.

 

[silkec]

And I am scared of people like you, judging without having all the facts!!!!!

My main concern is my mare, and right now I am spending my last penny to get her sorted. Should it turn out that the seller has conveniently forgotten about an injury caused by a pregnancy, then my aim would not be compensation for my broken hip and to return the horse but to secure the wellbeing of the horse since my insurance won't be paying forever.
If it is true, and she has been injured as a broodmare, why would I be wanting to send a horse back to people who sold a broken horse under false pretence?

 

[Fides]

Sounds completely bizarre. Why would you suspect that it is an injury caused by pregnancy? More likely to be a slip in the field, an ill fitting saddle or an unbalanced rider that has caused back pain. If you hear hooves think horses not zebra....

 

[silkec]

Exactly................

Wow, I am kind of shocked how quick you people are with judging other, instead of trusting that someone is trying to secure the future of a potentially broken young horse.

 

[Fides]

Wow, I am kind of shocked how quick you people are with judging other, instead of trusting that someone is trying to secure the future of a potentially broken young horse.

That isn't how it came across - it came across that you have an issue with a horse that you are trying to blame on the previous owner, even though you have had the horse for 6 months. You asked for legal advice on how to sue, not how to secure the future of the horse.

Eta - maybe if you had started a thread asking for advice on what to do with the horse rather than how to sue you would have had more sympathy.

 

[dogatemysalad]

What would you like to come from suing the previous owner ? It's unlikely you'd get compensation and keep the horse.
I doubt a solicitor would work on a no win, no fee basis, the odds are not in your favour, as it's more likely the horse developed issues during your period of ownership.

Just concentrate on your horse. Taking the rough with the smooth is what horse ownership is about.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If she has had a foal, the fact remains that she passed a 5 stage vetting (and the bloods came back clear, that were taken at the vetting) after having the possible foal.

Regardless of the ins and outs, this is still the main sticking point IMO.

 

[silkec]

Sounds completely bizarre. Why would you suspect that it is an injury caused by pregnancy? More likely to be a slip in the field, an ill fitting saddle or an unbalanced rider that has caused back pain. If you hear hooves think horses not zebra....

It is bizarre, I fully agree!
There are just too many questions...
physio and vet suspect an injury because
- the physiotherapist has pointed out that the pain seems to come from the sacroiliac area, and that this kind of injury happens often with mares who have been mounted
- the mare has been worked mostly in Hand at the stud farm for an entire year, and her bucking started a few weeks into ridden training, which could point at an old injury being aggravated
- saddle has been checked twice
- I am usually riding at elementary/ medium level, and my seat has never been an issue for any trainer

 

[silkec]

That isn't how it came across - it came across that you have an issue with a horse that you are trying to blame on the previous owner, even though you have had the horse for 6 months. You asked for legal advice on how to sue, not how to secure the future of the horse.

Eta - maybe if you had started a thread asking for advice on what to do with the horse rather than how to sue you would have had more sympathy.

I didn't really ask for sympathy, I was simply hoping to hear from people who maybe had a problem themselves, and who know of someone I could contact.

I really had no idea that posting these facts (I tried hard to leave out any emotions) would cause such an emotional uproar!

 

[Fides]

I've just reread the OP and now I am struggling also to understand how you can claim the stud sold you a horse that wasn't fit for purpose. You bought an unbacked 5 year old - the stud would not know whether the horse would take to ridden work as it hadn't been backed. They would have had no reason to bone scan her as her issues didn't start until you backed her.

Did you back her yourself? Did you see her backed? Did she react when backed?

Even rereading all your posts I can only read two conclusions - 1) that the horse has been injured since it was backed (as issues did not start immediately and SI issues usually result in immediate and spectacular objections) or 2) there are fundamental issues with her training that she is objecting to (completely unrelated to pain). You say you are working at medium level but you don't say what your experience is with youngsters. Could she just be confused?

 

[silkec]

She was in fact backed as a 4-year old and then left for another year (not enough time to work all horses I was told), therefore we only re-backed her and took it slow (have done it before, did it by the books also this time). By the way, her bucking was was in fact sudden and very spectacular!
The concern is that we aggravated an old injury which had been left to heal for a year.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It is bizarre, I fully agree!
There are just too many questions...
physio and vet suspect an injury because
- the physiotherapist has pointed out that the pain seems to come from the sacroiliac area, and that this kind of injury happens often with mares who have been mounted
- the mare has been worked mostly in Hand at the stud farm for an entire year, and her bucking started a few weeks into ridden training, which could point at an old injury being aggravated
- saddle has been checked twice
- I am usually riding at elementary/ medium level, and my seat has never been an issue for any trainer

Sorry, but I think you are grasping at straws.

Non broodmares and indeed male horses get sacroiliac problems too, so even if she has had a foal, you really can't say with 100% certainty that it was being covered (if she has been) that caused the issue.

Working in-hand for a year isn't that odd, nor is issues coming to the surface once the horse starts ridden work.

I could rant for ages about ill-fitting saddles and saddle fitters thinking they're fine... but i don't want to derail this thread.

I can't comment on your riding, having never seen you ride.

Did you ask for the horse's veterinary records before you bought her?

ETA - one of mine was lightly backed at 4, then rebacked at 5 and it really was to let her mature.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am sad that you have a problem with your horse .
But you had a vetting that showed no signs of SI pain so how do you think you are going to prove the previous owners knew there was an issue with the horse and that it's their fault the horse has gone wrong after you have owned it for six months .
A vet is going to have to be happy to go to court and say that an old injury has been aggravated and be able to prove that statement and then you are going to have to be able to prove the old owner knew .