Should I get legal help after horse purchase?

[RachelFerd]

Another one here terrified to sell a horse again...

You have no come back, simple. Yes, very sad to have a horse in pain, but a legal case, absolutely not - forget the idea as rapidly as you can.

 

[brucethegypsycob]

.... But is it not surprising when you've stated that you would like compensation from the seller for your own fractured hip. ....
From my point of view , the very fact that the seller stated that the mare was started late suggests that she bred a mare. Quite common to cover at 3 years for a foal at 4 years and back at 5 . That's what I have done. However, this is all irrelevant . After six months it has nothing to do with the seller.

 

[silkec]

silkec I feel for you, it's not what we imagine when we buy our new horse that we will almost immediately be forking out big vet bills for an injury which may ultimately limit the type of work your horse can do. I have a TB gelding that I bought for my daughter 2011, he didn't cost a lot, in fact even with insurance I've probably spent six times what he's worth on issues with his hocks and back which required hock injections, physio, chiro, remedial farriery and a long time off and a slow rehab, It was about 8-9 months into our ownership that the problems started but I never thought about contacting the seller.

First horse I bought my daughter was totally unsuitable for a teen just coming off ponies, I feel like the dealer should have known that, as we were too novice ourselves to know, but again I never thought about contacting the seller

Only person I know who I feel could possibly have asked a few questions of the seller was a person who bought (in my opinion) a wildly overpriced horse that was broken within a month and put down after a year of box rest and rehab that failed to work. It must have been heartbreaking for that person. From what I can gather, the horse had a a conformational fault, his hooves were oddly shaped and this placed pressure on his legs and this did for him in the end. He would have had this his whole life according to the remedial farrier. I feel like the sellers would have known this, but the buyer didn't ask, didn't get a vetting, and didn't make the connection, it was not my place to say what I thought so I didn't.

I think this is just the breaks with horses. I hope it works out for you and your girl. With treatment, most things aren't the end of the world.

Thanks,
What happened to your gelding?

 

[silkec]

.... But is it not surprising when you've stated that you would like compensation from the seller for your own fractured hip. ....
From my point of view , the very fact that the seller stated that the mare was started late suggests that she bred a mare. Quite common to cover at 3 years for a foal at 4 years and back at 5 . That's what I have done. However, this is all irrelevant . After six months it has nothing to do with the seller.

...another one who doesn't bother reading ...at no point I ever mentioned that I want compensation for a broken hip (I don't!)
...and I also mentioned earlier that the seller clearly stated that she never had a foal.

Otherwise, you make perfectly sense, I agree, but why would the seller then deny it?

 

[SO1]

I am sorry you are having problems with the horse especially when you did get a vetting done and made an effort to make sure you had a saddle that fitted etc. Sometimes despite doing everything right things can go wrong and it is not anyone's fault it is just bad luck. I think there is always a bit of a risk with a youngster as they can change as they get fitter/older and also if the horse had been out of work for a while for whatever reason you won't know how they will stand up to more work.

If the vets can't find anything obviously wrong with the horse and she had a 5 stage vetting - could it be that the horse is actually ok but is a bit of a difficult horse temperament wise and has sporadic bucking fits/tantrums if asked to do too much sometimes young horses do have tantrums.

It is not clear if the stud you bought her from had her from a foal or if they bought her from someone else, if they not bred her themselves it is possible that she could have had a foal before she came to them and they would not know or were told she had not had a foal or it could have been that she was injured before they had her and did not know.
Has the vet suggested a bute trial to see if the horses behaviour improves when on pain relief.

Personally I think it would be hard to prove the horse had a preexisting condition when you had 5 stage vetting done and rode the horse as well and presume the horse was ridden as part of the 5 stage vetting. However I am surprised that the previous owners are not willing to release any vets records they might have for the horse as if they have nothing to hide this would help clear their name.

 

[Flyermc]

do you need to be careful if your insurance is paying for the treatment, if your vets are thinking its a pre-existing condition?

 

[Goldenstar]

To consider legal action you are going to have a brief experienced in this area I don't think there's any chance you can buy this sort of help for less than £150 an hour.
You will need expert veterinary opinion that will prove the injury is more than six months old .
You will need diagnostics that prove this your insurance will not cover this you will have to stump up the money up front and hope you can recover it as costs if you win.
If you ask a lawyer to sue someone for you they will do so it's up to you to decide if it's in your best interest .
A horse having been covered ( and it's interesting the vet did not sound as if he's would be prepared to be definitive about that ) proves nothing treat size also varies enormously in maidens .
I can think of quite a lot of horses who have had SI injuries and funnily enough they are all geldings .
A friends beautiful gelding miss stepped going down hill and that ended his career he was never sound again .
Another friend has a pony which returned to full performance after treatment .
You know you buy horses some go lame ,its what they do I won't bore you with the list of equine based misfortune that I have endured over the years including a broken hip you just have to get on with it .

 

[Goldenstar]

do you need to be careful if your insurance is paying for the treatment, if your vets are thinking its a pre-existing condition?

Very true , but the vets cert should if it's a decent insurance company protect OP.

 

[skint1]

Thanks,
What happened to your gelding?

In the end he's fine for what my daughter would like to do with him (low level ROR type stuff) but to be at his best he needs structured schooling to build up his muscles and keep them correct. He needs maintenance jabs to his hocks too.

 

[jrp204]

Not all mares who have had a foal will have been served naturally. Sorry you have a broken horse, I agree with the others that after 6 months, a vetting and watching her being ridden I think you would be wasting your time and money persuing it.

 

[Dry Rot]

I for one am watching this thread with interest. I do in fact know of a case where a horse was sold after a satisfactory vetting and later developed a fault which was considered to have been latent (no symptoms) before the sale. So neither party was aware that there was anything wrong and the deal was made in good faith from both sides. A veterinary report is merely an opinion and vets are not clairvoyant.

The fact that something was seriously wrong only became apparent some months after the sale. The sellers were professionals, i.e. running an equine related business. I believe they settled out of court but the purchaser's claim was backed by full veterinary reports, tests, x-rays, etc. and she had every intention of following through with court action if necessary. As it was not my horse, I don't think I can say more but I suspect the OP's case is one that could go either way. Certainly, it is bad luck for the buyer, for the seller, and for the horse. But in fairness who should bear the cost of that bad luck?

 

[dark_prince]

Sorry but the horse passed a 5 stage vetting which indicates to me that she has developed an issue post purchase.

Either way, legally you wouldn't get anywhere with compensation.

 

[Maesfen]

Interesting thread, thanks for that.

As a breeder (retired now, just two youngsters left to sell!) it worries me that after a 5 stage vetting plus your personal inspection and ride on a newly broken horse, that six months down the line you think it permissable to think the seller has to give you the time of day now that your horse is broken and you want recompense.

By your own admission you had a made to measure saddle for her even before she had done any work. Did your saddler not stress to you the importance of the fact that your mare would change shape regularly as she became fitter and matures and to have it checked every month in that first year as she changed shape (and also, did you not notice that yourself too because TBH, it should have been noticed and acted upon; it sounds from your posts that you assumed a MTM saddle would fit for life without any alterations and that is bound to have had repercussions for her, quite likely to be the original cause for her misbehaviour let alone she might have been going through the horrible Hilda stage of being a teenager when youngsters are prone to test their boundaries.

While as a breeder I want all of my horses to go on and lead useful lives, I also vet any new owners in the hope they can give mine the life they need too so that all of us are happy. Providing that criteria is made, then after purchase it is not my problem but theirs if the horse misbehaves; likewise, I have no input to how the horse is kept, managed and ridden even if I wanted to. That's not to say Im not interested or won't try to help but to expect your breeders to accept liability (for what exactly?) for something that happened long after you bought her smacks of having your cake and eating it too. If you bought a car and it caused you injury because you had put the wrong tyres on it (closest I could think of as of the same importance of a saddle fitting correctly) then you wouldn't have any comeback so why is this horse any different?

 

[surreygirl17]

...another one who doesn't bother reading ...at no point I ever mentioned that I want compensation for a broken hip (I don't!)
...and I also mentioned earlier that the seller clearly stated that she never had a foal.

Otherwise, you make perfectly sense, I agree, but why would the seller then deny it?

Can I just point out that just because she's never had a foal doesn't mean she's never been IN foal. And if she had been in foal and lost it, who's to say it was a natural covering? Unless the seller remembers they have a certificate somewhere!
Not that I think this has any relation to the case. Sadly OP you have a broken horse 6 months after buying with a clean 5* vetting. No wonder the seller has gone quiet as there is nothing they can do. There are plenty of mares out there who have a foal and never have any issues. I myself am considering putting my mare into foal when I get pregnant to be my next horse.

 

[Kat]

Horses are just "goods" for the purposes of the law. If you bought from a business you have protection from the sale of goods act and the consumer protection act. it doesn't matter whether the seller knew about the defect, what matters is whether it existed at the time of purchase. Sadly with a clean vetting you will have difficulty proving it was pre-existing.

 

[honetpot]

Being silent doesn't automatically indicate the former owner's guilt. Maybe they got legal advice (I would if the new owner was threatening to sue) and were told to not communicate with you?

If they have contacted their insurance company that there may be a claim they would probably be told this if the have legal cover in their insurance. I have to say if I sold something in good faith and then six months later the buyer suggests I have been untruthful it would stretch my good manners.
I am really sorry you have broken your hip but young horses are unpredictable, our four year old who was a very placid sort threw my daughter off for no apparent reason, never did it before or afterwards. Fortunately she was on a surface so she dusted herself off and got back on ....carefully after checking all the tack again.
Your vet and physio were looking for something wrong, and they have found some things that maybe wrong but unless you have a crystal ball you will never know.

 

[Dry Rot]

Horses are just "goods" for the purposes of the law. If you bought from a business you have protection from the sale of goods act and the consumer protection act. it doesn't matter whether the seller knew about the defect, what matters is whether it existed at the time of purchase. Sadly with a clean vetting you will have difficulty proving it was pre-existing.

Exactly. Google comes up with some interesting information on consumer law.

I do think some posters on here are being very judgemental while the OP has been polite and restrained in her responses.

Meantime, I still have an open mind and will be very interested to hear how it pans out.

 

[CBAnglo]

One of the reasons you are not getting legal advice from the actual lawyers amongst us is that we would not be covered by our insurance for such advice.

I would press to get the pre- existing records but it is a double edged sword it may show the injury is pre-existing (implications for insurance) but also might show, for example, that horse had had a steroid injection into sacroiliac a couple of months before sale and therefore would not show SI pain. I have one with a SI ligament strain and after a steroid injection there is no sign of SI at all for a good 8 months or so until it starts to wear off.

 

[Kittyk]

I haven't had the time to read the thread but...

I have a 17yr old BWB mare, who I have had for c. 8 yrs. Passed a 5 stage vetting with no issues at all. 6 weeks later showed signs of wobblers which was infact Ataxia and she recovered after 2/3 months out of work. Coming back into work she was shown to have a sacroiliac injury which the vet was fairly sure was either the result of a fall or pregnancy and was an aged injury. I was never told she had had a foal nor did I ask or care at the point of sale and I am not sure the seller would have known either as she had been imported.

My point is, as upsetting as it was, and believe me after losing my previous horse after just 8 months of ownership it was, I had no recourse. My vet was loathe to put anything in writing as his colleague had carried out the 5 stage vetting and I had had the horse a while, ridden her with no issues and she'd passed a vetting. It probably was an injury that was pre-existing but possibly one the seller wasn't aware of either. It was my bad luck it came to fruition after I had bought her and as a result of the work/lack of work she was in.

I still have her, we have had periods of her being completely sound and able to work at a reasonable level (lateral movements, flying changes etc). I have to be very careful what I do and don't do with her dependent on her fitness. Good physio, chiropractor, vet and farrier all help. I have found she is better with regular work, any period out of work and muscle loss and we're are back to square one again.

It just a very *@{* thing to happen! I hope it works out for you and your horse.

 

[fawaz]

Can you look up the relevant studbook to check for registered foals out of your mare? Assuming that her having the excellent lines you say, she would be pure bred and registered and the breeder/seller would want to continue to carry on those lines through registered stock?

Are all foals from this breeder registered? If so I would assume if your mare had a foal it would be registered too as surely to breed and not register would defeat the purpose for this breeder....

 

[fawaz]

Also just as a side note, just about every horse I have ever had has had some sort of SI injury at one point or another. Its something that happens and I'm not a breeder....
You can get through it and have a sound horse but you need to find the right professionals that are experts at dealing with it. Good luck with your mare!