Should I hit the panic button?

[slimjim]

Hopefully it is just the grass. A quick look at the website made it look as though at least yearling colts run with the herd. If she is in foal then I would think it likely that if you returned her to the stud for foaling/weaning then she could quite possibly come back in foal again.

The only BOGOF I know of ended happily with a great foal, but I can see that you don't want a foal and I have seen what problems a single foal can be on a livery yard. Don't panic just yet though, until the vets been/you get the results.

 

[Asha]

From the size she is ( if she’s In foal ) you should be able to see some movement . Best time to look is when you bring her in and give her a little food .
She’s does look the right shape to be in foal.
Here’s hoping she’s just over done the grass

 

[holeymoley]

I’m going with grass belly ??‍

 

[Spirit2021]

At least you got 2 for the price of one.

She actually doesn’t look in foal to me the livery yard owner in my yard breeds her mare and would be looking massive even when months away from foaling . She actually looks like my mare when I first got her everyone thought she was pregnant she wasn’t though. I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident. From actually looking at mares I would say nope definitely not.

 

[Apercrumbie]

The belly looks like it could be a grass belly to me - particularly given that she's young and not in work so won't have much core strength. Equally, she could be pregnant. Either way, you'll know soon enough and you will manage. I'm sorry that this has come at such a rough time for you though.

 

[JJS]

Yeah, it would be from spring/summer 2020. If I have a BOGOF right now, I am going to crawl into a closet and never, ever come out. I really like this horse. A lot. I don't want to give her up but I cannot deal with a foal now. I just can't.

I’m so sorry to hear about Gypsum, OP - it’s an awful thing to lose your best friend.

On the subject of Hermosa, a word from the all-too-wise: you can and you will deal with it, if you need to. It might feel utterly terrifying and impossible, but it’s different when they arrive. Once you see a foal come into the world, there’s something inexplicably precious in that. You can’t regret their unexpected arrival, no matter how inconvenient it might be.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident

Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.

OP, I hope that the vet check can allay your fears, but she does look in foal to me, too. The breeder may well have her back to foal in that case, if that is what you decide is best.

 

[brighteyes]

Whatever the outcome, it's not an all or nothing and there are lots of options - none of which should interfere too much with Hermosa's career under saddle, as long as all goes well with any foaling that might or might not be occurring. Panic button, no - vet check, yes. I'll cross my fingers for you.

 

[ycbm]

Adding my two pennyworth to the disbelief that a stud runs colts with mares. I've seen the result of a yearling turned out with a mare, she was a nice little filly.
.

 

[Spirit2021]

Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.

It actually happened to me friend she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster knowing that mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.

 

[ihatework]

It actually happened to me friend she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster knowing that mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.

In the politest way possible you are talking twaddle.

 

[ihatework]

OP - no need to hit the panic button, what will be, will be.

First step - vet check!

If she is in foal then it’s so unlikely to impact her as a long term riding horse for you. She’s 3, it’s not as if you would be doing a great deal with her this year anyway.

A shock. A surprise. Not in the life plans. But in the grand scheme of things, not a disaster.

 

[Trouper]

Please take this in the nicest possible way but I think your emotions are playing havoc with your brain at the moment. If Hermosa is in foal, then she will be the one doing all the work (!) and, as others have said, at her age another year before riding is nothing to worry about.
Many of us on here have been fooled before with pictures indicating that a mare was in foal so wait until you have confirmation or not from the vet. This time I am putting my money on the grass - it has been the weirdest Spring, not only with the varying quantity of grass but also with its quality - as so many laminitis cases testify.
Don't panic - yet!!

 

[Griffin]

May also be worth looking to see if the udders have been bitten. That wouldn't explain the tummy (although that could be grass) but my mare had and insect bite on her udders a couple of years ago and the swelling was enormous.

I hope the vet gives you some answers today.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

One of my mares started lactating 3 years ago after being on clover and very rich grass...and some upset in the field. I’m hoping it’s a reaction to clover..

 

[ycbm]

It actually happened to me friend she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee.

They can ask, I suppose. There's not a hope in hell they would get it, unless your friend was asking for a covering certificate.
.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

In the politest way possible you are talking twaddle.

Hm, I don't know. I have seen someone buy a mare that was (unknowingly) pregnant. Buyer had no idea mare was ever bred. Seller didn't disclose, and buyer had no reason to think the mare was ever exposed to a stallion (only out with mares), bought and advertised as a riding horse for competition.

Buyer, months later, once she found out, went to the seller stating she did not intend on buying a pregnant mare/that wasn't in the deal, but offered the foal to the breeder. Breeder then had the balls to ask for a stud fee and that the Buyer should pay them to take the foal. That's right. Insane. Buyer foaled out mare elsewhere and ended up keeping the resulting foal, but is having a heck of a battle getting it registered. This is not a common situation though. So not the "norm" by any means.

As for the OP having a leg to stand on *if the horse is pregnant* I am not sure. A few variables here.

So in the politest way possible, just because it seems whack, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Situations that seem black and white regarding responsibility or accountability aren't always. Of course anyone is free to have their opinion, but sometimes things play out in ways don't make sense.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I feel like she isn't pregnant, but my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it ?

If she is, one step at a time. It's a pain in the arse, but something that can be figured out.

As I say often, I'm still trying to figure out how horses/this hobby is, as some people say, "relaxing" ?

Either way OP, you'll both get through it. I hate when life throws a wrench in the gears, but I try to have a sense of humor as I watch more gray hairs turn up.

 

[ihatework]

Hm, I don't know. I have seen someone buy a mare that was (unknowingly) pregnant. Buyer had no idea mare was ever bred. Seller didn't disclose, and buyer had no reason to think the mare was ever exposed to a stallion (only out with mares), bought and advertised as a riding horse for competition.

Buyer, months later, once she found out, went to the seller stating she did not intend on buying a pregnant mare/that wasn't in the deal, but offered the foal to the breeder. Breeder then had the balls to ask for a stud fee and that the Buyer should pay them to take the foal. That's right. Insane. Buyer foaled out mare elsewhere and ended up keeping the resulting foal, but is having a heck of a battle getting it registered. This is not a common situation though. So not the "norm" by any means.

As for the OP having a leg to stand on *if the horse is pregnant* I am not sure. A few variables here.

So in the politest way possible, just because it seems whack, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Situations that seem black and white regarding responsibility or accountability aren't always. Of course anyone is free to have their opinion, but sometimes things play out in ways don't make sense.

There is a difference though. The stud, if they are less than straight, can ask for whatever they want. It doesn’t mean they will get it, or be entitled to it ? The OP would have plenty of legs to stand on. The only area of contention would be a covering certificate for full bred papers if the stud wanted to be awkward. There is no right to mandatory stud fees, dispute over foal ownership or where the mare should foal down. So all that is twaddle. I have no doubt every now and again a stud might try their luck, but that is very different to the owner of the mare being legally obliged to comply

 

[shortstuff99]

The registering (if pregnant, I'm still not sure!) Wouldn't need a covering certificate as the foal would be PRE fusion with BAPSH. Unfortunately as Hermosa is not graded the foal can't be registered as PRE.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

There is a difference though. The stud, if they are less than straight, can ask for whatever they want. It doesn’t mean they will get it, or be entitled to it ? The OP would have plenty of legs to stand on. The only area of contention would be a covering certificate for full bred papers if the stud wanted to be awkward. There is no right to mandatory stud fees, dispute over foal ownership or where the mare should foal down. So all that is twaddle. I have no doubt every now and again a stud might try their luck, but that is very different to the owner of the mare being legally obliged to comply

I am in total agreement that the stud can ask for whatever, but that doesn't mean they will get it nor are they entitled to it. Sorry if I conveyed otherwise, that was not my intention, nor the point I wanted to make. In the situation I know above, the stud were outrageous IMO, and of course they didn't get what they wanted. Of course any stud could try their luck and the mare owner is not legally obliged to comply. I don't think that's the argument here.

As my post said above, the registering was the hang up with that buyer and stud. So that relates to what you're saying about a covering certificate.

I don't think anyone said that there is a right to mandatory stud fees or that there could be a dispute over foaling details or ownership, so that would, indeed, be twaddle.

What Spirit was getting at, I think, was that the OP would be "stuck" with the foal as she knowingly bought a filly/mare that was living out with a stallion. It wasn't about ownership by the breeder or foaling details, necessarily. I don't think that's entirely "twaddle" because if one buys a mare that is running with a stallion doesn't one assume the risk when purchasing that the mare could be pregnant?

So if the buyer says, "I bought this mare, not this mare and her foal that is inside her."

And the seller says, "Well, you knew and saw her living with a stallion, but didn't inquire further/accepted that, how are you surprised by a foal?"

Not saying this is the situation with Hermosa or will be the situation at all, but it is a point that I think was trying to be made that got misconstrued.

 

[tristar]

Do you mean *charge*? You think that a breeder would ask the OP for more money if the filly they sold was in foal? That's not how it works. The filly was sold as a youngster to be raised as a riding prospect, not as an empty brood mare with a failed covering.

OP, I hope that the vet check can allay your fears, but she does look in foal to me, too. The breeder may well have her back to foal in that case, if that is what you decide is best.

so sorry about gypsum

this er, breeder has sold a 3 yr old who has not been well handled at all, i would not be sending the mare back to them, foaling is for dedicated people who actually have the knowledge and interest in the animals welfare.


quite frankly, what a half soaked get that person is

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I wouldn’t recommend actually contacting the breeder because most of the time they will change you for a accident.

Eh?????? What??????

It actually happened to me friend she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster knowing that mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.

Oh for goodness sake - the breeder can ask all she wants, not a leg to stand on IMO. In fact if and it is a big IF right now, the mare is in foal I would be asking for recompense from the seller who sold under a false description full stop. If the so far non existent foal is fit and healthy, OP will get a very good price with or without papers.

Please do try and be a little more positive, OP obviously feeling very unhappy right now.

 

[tristar]

It actually happened to me friend she bought a youngster a found out she was pregnant. When she contact the breeder they told her they wanted a stud fee and if they wanted mare to to foal at there stud my friend would have to pay for it .

op doesn’t have a leg to stand on because she bought a youngster knowing that mare has been running with a herd of colts and stallion.

a good point, about knowing the stallion was in with the mare, makes it much more complicated, legally, shall we say, its kind of blxxdy obvious what MIGHT happen! or in this case may very well have happened already, if she is in foal

of course one could always claim to have no knowledge of the birds and bees...

 

[Lipglosspukka]

She's only 3 this year? So not the end of the world if she has a foal and you start her next year as a 4yo.

If the foal isn't your cup of tea then you can sell it but I'm sure you will feel different once it's here. It's exciting.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Eh?????? What??????




Oh for goodness sake - the breeder can ask all she wants, not a leg to stand on IMO. In fact if and it is a big IF right now, the mare is in foal I would be asking for recompense from the seller who sold under a false description full stop. If the so far non existent foal is fit and healthy, OP will get a very good price with or without papers.

Please do try and be a little more positive, OP obviously feeling very unhappy right now.

How was it a false description though?
That's sort of the theoretical hang up...and is an interesting convo to me...and I should perhaps start a separate thread to avoid derailing this more. I don't mean to throw a bunch of scenarios at the OP because we don't even know that the horse is pregnant or has a food baby.

So please, don't stress due to me having a discussion.

 

[bubsqueaks]

This happened to us a couple of years ago - 6 months after buying mare from yard we knew also had a stallion!
Went into panic mode but for peace of mind got the Vet out to scan her - empty!
Turned out to be a virus & grass belly!
Hopefully you have the vet booked as its worth the cost just for peace of mind - fingers crossed for you.

 

[Quadro]

From a practical point of view, if she is find somewhere for her to foal and preferably turned out with out youngstock. I can help with both if need be

 

[Annagain]

Oh CI, you are having a time of it aren't you. Have a big hug and a stiff gin.

I agree with the others though. While inconvenient, it needn't be the end of the world. You wouldn't be doing much with Hermosa until next Spring anyway so if there is a BOGOF she can be a teenage mum for this year and once foaly is weaned, you can sell on and she can start work. You can still do little bits of groundwork with her over the winter, either with foaly in tow or to give her a break from being mum. It's far better now than a year or two down the line.

As others have said, line breeding won't necessarily cause deformities, it's just that any genetic quirks might be amplified so if dad is generally healthy and doesn't have any issues, there's no reason why the foal should. The most difficult thing might be establishing whether the stallion is dad or if it's one of the colts (who I assume will be her half brothers?).

I hope it is just clover but if it's not, you can deal with it and it needn't put your plans for her back too much - maybe a couple of months at most.

 

[Ambers Echo]

We had a s BOGOF recently on our yard. Cob mare bought in March. Foal appeared overnight with zero warning. Owner reactions went from 'OMFG noooooooo' to 'awwww she's soooooo cute'; and from 'what a nightmare' to 'how exciting' in about 6 hours.

For your peace of mind, I hope she's ok. But if not, it will be fine in the end anyway x