should i keep entire or geld

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tikino

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i have a yearling colt born 16/06/11 for sale with no joy was wondering if you were buying would you prefer a colt or a gelding. as have mixed ideas of whether he would be more sellable gelded
 
As i put on the other tread. Gelded would appeal more for me, or advertise as a colt but will geld if required. Hitting both markets then.
 
Honestly unless there is something amazing about it (graded by a society or at least your vet!) or it is homozygous for a particular colour or has amazing bloodlines I would definitely geld it. A yearling is a handful at the best of times and colts can be very difficult to home if they are entire. Plus the new owners will think about the added cost of having it gelded which may put them off buying it also. If I have any colts next year they will be gelded for sale unless I get a fewspot appaloosa which I will get genetically tested and only keep it entire if it will be a USEFUL addition to my breeding programme.
Good luck finding a home for him and I am sure gelding will help.
 
tikino said:
i have a yearling colt born 16/06/11 for sale with no joy was wondering if you were buying would you prefer a colt or a gelding. as have mixed ideas of whether he would be more sellable gelded
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Unless he is absolutely FANTASTICALLY bred - and stunningly put together AND unless you have a very deep pocket, geld him!

The market for yearlings is quiet at present - people aren't as likely to buy one to 'put away', although they are still buying backed and riding horses!

I am about to geld this chap - at 6 years old:

Rambo-October.jpg


I was convinced he was good enough to grade RID, but after two attempts, he still only gets Grade 2. His breeding is good - but not 'rare' - or exceptional - and he's no use to me as I still have his sire and his dam is one of my foundation mares so have a lot of HER breeding in my mare herd.

Selling him as a Grade 2 stallion, I won't get a half-way decent price for him - but more important (to me) is that I can't really see him landing on his feet at a good stud that keeps their stallions well! As a gelding, he'll be worth much more (and I might keep him for my OH to hunt anyway if they get on!) Otherwise he'll be a classy big hunter for someone and stand a very decent chance of a good future.

But he's cost me a bomb to rear, and produce - and we won't talk about the cost of inspections! With hindsight, I'd have been MUCH better gelding him as a yearling!
 
Hi Tinkino,

what is the breeding of your colt, if you dont mind me asking?

I also have an entire colt for sale, and was wondering the same thing.

Mellissa
 
Trying to sell him entire is limiting your market as most people will have problems trying to bring a yearling onto a yard. Most of the UK has just had the best week for gelding, warm weather and hardly any flies. I am another who thinks you are better having him cut or as already suggested offer either/or.
 
Geld, there are far to many unwanted horses about so having another stallion to produce more is recless. and a gelding will have a better quality of life.
 
I advertise my colts as colts with the option to geld. Many of mine (papered) go to show homes as weanlings or yearlings and owners like to see how they do after a season before gelding.

I have no problem about going to see colts to buy, I simply use the fact that I will have to geld as a bargaining point - depending on the asking price obviously. I am not going to haggle over a $100 weanling.
 
I would definitely geld for sale- so many times I have seen colts for sale and would have gone to see them if they were geldings.

I won't go to see anything that says 'can be gelded' as they tend to expect you to put a deposit down before the gelding- what if something goes wrong?
I don't want my money tied up and have to go through the bother of getting it back in which case the sellers may try and hang onto it.
there are plenty of nice youngsters already gelded that I would rather spend my petrol money going to see.

The market is weak anyway for yearlings- 3yros so you need to make him appeal to the mass market and not the niche sector.
 
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I have two yearling colts for sale at the moment and am hedging my bets. Both are very well bred but the one I thought would be a better stallion may now make a superb gelding and the one I thought was more gelding material is turning into quite a stunning little boy. I am keeping them both entire for now as they are easy to handle - but have put on their ads that they can be gelded (perhaps I should add "at my own expense", to encourage more to view? Only after they have been paid for though!).

I think it is entirely a decision you have to make yourself, if you are selling they may have better lives as geldings. I like to give people the option as there may always be someone who says, oh I would have bought him in a heartbeat if he was a colt! lol
 
Geld. Enough very good stallions about.
My colt (1 year-old today) was gelded this last Monday. I coludn't have picked a better week weather wise.
 
I too am considering the very same question for my 2 year ols colt at the mo. His breeding is VERY good along with his conformation and temp. His breeder thinks he's good enough to keep entire- thik i'm going to have him initially inspected by one of the well known studs for their opinion.
 
Violet said:
Geld. Enough very good stallions about.
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Hang on there!!! This "stallion" is not even a "yearling" per se... he is only just 9 months old.

Those decisions should not be taken on a blanket basis - let's geld everything, too many good stallions about - let's never ever breed again, too many horses needing homes - that is just emotional knee-jerk b****x.

Lots of questions need to be answered first:

* Is he likely to be a show horse?
If so, a LOT of show people like to keep colts entire until they are 2, not because they want to breed from them, but because rightly or wrongly they believe they develop more topline earlier and show more "presence".

* Is he likely to be a talented showjumper?
Again, showjumpers at a certain level like to keep their horses entire, even if their are not necessarily breeding stock, they are mostly men ;) and they believe it gives the horse an "edge" that geldings don't have. As showjumping yards don't often (Disclaimer... not ALL but many) turn out so it really doesn't bother them to have colts on their yard!

* Is he stallion material?
That's the obvious one... But I bet whoever decided to geld Milton is still kicking him/herself. Some horses ARE WORTH keeping entire if their quality, bloodlines, etc. warrants.

* Is he quiet and easy to handle?
If so, what's the rush? If he is no trouble to handle and can be kept in a mixed yard (mine is 11 months old and is tuned out with a gelding but within sniffing distance of a lot of horny mares & doesn't give a hoot!), then if your buyer likes him for his easy laid back temperament, he/she will buy him nutless or not! He can still be gelded at a later stage when the buyers have had time to assess his potential as per above points.

* Are both his testicles descended?
If not, good weather or not, the vet will have to knock him out and open him up... Not ideal by any standards. If he is quiet and well behaved, then the gelding can wait until the Autumn or even possibly the next Spring, when it can be done standing up at minimal trauma & potential post-op complications to the youngster.

If the answers are NO, NO, NO, NO & YES, then geld, quick!

But each case should be assessed on its own merits & your potential buyers really ought to see it that way too - crap market or not.
 
GinnieRedwings said:
* * Is he stallion material?
That's the obvious one... But I bet whoever decided to geld Milton is still kicking him/herself. Some horses ARE WORTH keeping entire if their quality, bloodlines, etc. warrants.
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Really? Not sure Milton had the makings of a stallion & who is to say if he had of stayed entire he would have had the temperment to make to to the level he did? It is all speculative.
 
I think something has to be really exceptional not to castrate to be honest, and you can usually tell that when they are born, if so allowing them to stay entire until at least two gives you plenty of time to be sure you haven't made the wrong decision.
If you are aiming to sell then I advise gelding, if you don't you instantly wipe out an awful lot of potential buyers who don't have the facilities to keep a colt or a recently gelded one.
We tend to run ours on until they are two but they grow up in a mixed herd and don't get stallion like at all as a result, but usually around Spring time aged coming two the lust starts stirring !
 
"Hang on there!!! This "stallion" is not even a "yearling" per se... he is only just 9 months old."

Sorry, but I didn't think this particular 9 month old colt's relations and their competition records was that very special to warrant keeping entire for future breeding. I might be proven wrong...
If you prefer riding stallions in competition it might be different but I would have thought there would be less buyers for it in the market.
 
henryhorn said:
I think something has to be really exceptional not to castrate to be honest, and you can usually tell that when they are born, if so allowing them to stay entire until at least two gives you plenty of time to be sure you haven't made the wrong decision.
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Apologies for hi-jacking,but comments like this often puzzle me and I thought I would be brave and finally ask about it!!

*If* people only kept exceptional stallions to breed from,then how would most of us ever afford or be able to find a riding horse?? I don't need something well bred,perfectly formed (and probably very expensive!!) just to hack around the lanes on,I just need a nice tempered,sane and sound ponio,as I'm sure do the majority of horse owners and riders,surely there is more call for those type of horses/ponies than any exceptional ones??

Of course if you were just referring to the particular type/breed of horse that you or OP has then please accept my apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick and feel free to ignore lol
 
We have just gelded two two year olds and I couldn't have asked for better weather.I would have really liked to keep one in particular entire as he is a very correct and beautiful horse but I knew myself that I didnt have the scope to keep him like that for the forseeable future and he would appeal to a wider audience as he is bred to event and I dont think there is as many people prepared to event a stallion as there is to showjump one.Unless he is very special then I would geld also.
 
[/QUOTE]

Violet said:
"Hang on there!!! This "stallion" is not even a "yearling" per se... he is only just 9 months old."

Sorry, but I didn't think this particular 9 month old colt's relations and their competition records was that very special to warrant keeping entire for future breeding. I might be proven wrong...
If you prefer riding stallions in competition it might be different but I would have thought there would be less buyers for it in the market.
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sorry but unless you know the horse please don't insult it. both his dam and sire have good competition records. I breed decent horses and choose stallions very carefully to complement the mare.

I didn't ask what you thought of my horse but if
he would sell better as a colt or gelding
 
devonlass said:
Apologies for hi-jacking,but comments like this often puzzle me and I thought I would be brave and finally ask about it!!

*If* people only kept exceptional stallions to breed from,then how would most of us ever afford or be able to find a riding horse?? I don't need something well bred,perfectly formed (and probably very expensive!!) just to hack around the lanes on,I just need a nice tempered,sane and sound ponio,as I'm sure do the majority of horse owners and riders,surely there is more call for those type of horses/ponies than any exceptional ones??
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Because there are so many horses that dont make the grade but are affordable riding horses just check out the adverts. I have a TB mare that is one of the sanest horses to deal with both on the ground & ridden, she has manners to burn. She was bred to race, though never made the track & was meat money. There are plenty like her, surplus to requirements. No need to use substandard (not referring to this colt) stallions or mares. It is a fact that there is a bigger market for geldings then colts unless of course the poster wants to give him away! Despite what someone has said it becomes harder to find somewhere for an entire of a year + old, most yards dont want the liability. This is not somewhere like Spain that treat them like any other horse & it seems every other horse is an entire! Probably too much generalisation there, but I know how difficult it is to keep them & I had no choice with one as he just would not drop!!!
 



sorry but unless you know the horse please don't insult it. both his dam and sire have good competition records. I breed decent horses and choose stallions very carefully to complement the mare.

I didn't ask what you thought of my horse but if
he would sell better as a colt or gelding[/QUOTE]

Is this the yearling you refer to? http://www.horses-sales.com/horse/89795
 
[/QUOTE]
sorry but unless you know the horse please don't insult it. both his dam and sire have good competition records. I breed decent horses and choose stallions very carefully to complement the mare.

I didn't ask what you thought of my horse but if
he would sell better as a colt or gelding[/QUOTE]

Sorry if you felt insulted by it, he is probably a lovely colt. I just looked at the link you gave
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?0=dummy&i=10634083&z=cZX0xM&ad_session=cZX0xM
and it didn't seem like the dam and sire had done enough for potential breeders to be interested in using him. That was my reasoning for saying geld him and also taking in to account of having to keep an entire in the yard.
I guess once he has been out and competed in the highest classes and ended up with a good record he might be of interest to some breeders.
 
sorry but unless you know the horse please don't insult it. both his dam and sire have good competition records. I breed decent horses and choose stallions very carefully to complement the mare.

I didn't ask what you thought of my horse but if
he would sell better as a colt or gelding[/QUOTE]

Sorry if you felt insulted by it, he is probably a lovely colt. I just looked at the link you gave
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?0=dummy&i=10634083&z=cZX0xM&ad_session=cZX0xM
and it didn't seem like the dam and sire had done enough for potential breeders to be interested in using him. That was my reasoning for saying geld him and also taking in to account of having to keep an entire in the yard.
I guess once he has been out and competed in the highest classes and ended up with a good record he might be of interest to some breeders.[/QUOTE]

no worries at the end of the day he is for sale and it is what the prospective buyer would want he will hopefully make a very good showjumper as that is what he is bred for. if people would more likely look at him as a gelding then he will be gelded as i have too many horses and have another two foals due this year who will also be sold
 
Why not keep him a few months longer and take him to Futurity?

Then you will have a 'grading' on him and can decide what to do. It may also give you an indication of what price to ask for him. If he achieves Elite status, then I would be thinking about keeping him entire and selling for a lot more than you have him up for at the moment, for example.

If he only grades as a 2nd premium, then geld him and reduce the price.

Does that make sense?
 
Bedlam said:
Why not keep him a few months longer and take him to Futurity?

Then you will have a 'grading' on him and can decide what to do. It may also give you an indication of what price to ask for him. If he achieves Elite status, then I would be thinking about keeping him entire and selling for a lot more than you have him up for at the moment, for example.

If he only grades as a 2nd premium, then geld him and reduce the price.

Does that make sense?
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I agree with Bedlam, You could have a future Star.
I really like his bloodlines and I also like the look of him, However getting him to futurity does cost a bit.
 
Really? £60/70fee and suppose travel costs for whereever you are heading and possible stabling.....

Yes could be alot of some people but it's well worth the money if you want to get an honest oppinion of yours foals/youngsters potential. I did last year and will be waiting to do it again this year before deciding anything on my colt.
 
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