Should racing two year olds be banned?

Yes you are so right, so many things have changed in recent years - and will continue to change. Change is good for the right reasons, but it also needs to be recognised that the horses / ponies that are at most risk, are from a community where horse ownership has become an everyday reality - just as buying a dishwasher, smart phone or car is - and when it stops working, or mis-functions is when we can simply throw it away, and move on to the next interest - possibly a set of golf clubs? or Gym Membership that will take up for the whole of Jan, then we give up on? Horse racing, is not that sort of throw away sport per se - trainers are smarter at getting horses fit, but the welfare of their charges has changed little since the 17th Century, the grooms live in semi squalour, the horses in 5 star luxury (not good, and I speak from experince, but we are talking horse welfare here....) Horses / ponies past their sell by date / capabilities / usefulness - an ethical question for us all s to what happens next, in all disciplines, and certainly not just horse racing....
Yes, I agree 100% it's a question for us all, certainly not just racing.

ps.I think I was one who slipped into emotive posting. I await my rapped knuckles. lol Not much constructive comes when it gets emotive.
One big positive is we are all talking from the same hymn sheet fundamentally. Or is that singing. Oops.
 
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Agree. Surprised they are not.
I know with Irish Draughts they have to be inspected before they can be RID.
I think all breeding stock should have to pass an inspection before it could breed.
In fact all horses should have to pass an inspection before they can breed!

dressedkez- Wasn't referring to you!

Oh good! Logging out now - but sure this will conversation will run on - it is good one, and makes us all think a little - not just about the OP re racing 2 year olds, but about how we all deal with young horses / over breeding / lack of knowledge / too much knowledge / general welfare standards for all horses / ponies irrespective of the job (or not) - and that is a point for discussion too....
Zzzzzzzzzz - will come back tomorrow evening, if anyone still has energy left??
 
Personally I think anyone sitting on a horse before its third birthday at the earliest should be banned/shot but that is my opinion I also think that all breeding stock should be graded for sound conformation regardless of breed mares and stallions alike. No foal should be born to be weak and damaged I appreciate that a few will be by accident of birth but if everything was graded the risk of poor conformation causing injury would be significantly reduced.
The racing industry has a lot to answer for the majority of horses going through the abattoirs for meat are from the racing industry the waste is horrific. So maybe a look into the welfare of those horses would be a start.
I also agree that in training race horses are in the main treated like kings and have the best of everything but if they fail or break god help them
 
he risk of poor conformation causing injury would be significantly reduced.
The racing industry has a lot to answer for the majority of horses going through the abattoirs for meat are from the racing industry the waste is horrific.

See this what I mean. This is rubbish. Most horses to go to the abattoirs for meat a coloured cobby things bred for meat. Yes some TB's do go, but they are not the majority. Where did you get this idea from?
 
Does anyone know a percentage breakdown of horse breeds through abbatoirs? Whilst i expect it is largely small hairies i have known of several ex broodies go up.
 
I think there are 3 seperate welfare issues.
1. Horses being worked at 2 & younger - which bothers me least of all, if I am honest.
2. The management of babies - in big yards where there are consignments of 100 odd at a time then they are not treated as individuals and that will include not having their teeth checked, being ridden by poor riders who are harsh on them, awful, old fashioned management practices such as reduced forage, no turn out etc. the wastage is terrible.
3. the inbreeding & deterioration of the breed - surely you only have to loko at a horse like Quality Fair, or Chu Chin Chow to see how much the TB has changed for the worse recently.
 
I think there are 3 seperate welfare issues.
1. Horses being worked at 2 & younger - which bothers me least of all, if I am honest.
2. The management of babies - in big yards where there are consignments of 100 odd at a time then they are not treated as individuals and that will include not having their teeth checked, being ridden by poor riders who are harsh on them, awful, old fashioned management practices such as reduced forage, no turn out etc. the wastage is terrible.

Sorry, but thats emotive clap trap. Have you ever got off your backside and worked on a couple of racing yards? Do you think they would accept you? Because I consider myself a good rider, was very experienced when a student and was still rejected by the top yards and watched pretty carefully by the medium level yards I did work at - I never rode work, for example, it would have taken me 2 or 3 years of proving myself to be allowed to do that. You simply wouldn't be able to balance on top of a young, entire horse with short stirrups and a minimal saddle on the gallops, surrounded by lots of fresh, excitable horses if you were a bad rider.

And of course they get their teeth checked! I can't think why you assume they don't. Its usually twice a year, but on some yards, the dentist would be there more regularly. As for not treated as individuals, you have one full-time lad or lass who looks after between 3 and 6 horses. They are groomed and ridden or turned out or led out in hand 6 days a week. True, there will be some cheaper yards where that doesn't happen, but it hardly compares to your average livery yard where the most individual attention from the often part-time staff the horses get is being chucked in a the field and brought back in each night, with the owner maybe riding at the weekend if enough time...

Certainly every horse I've ever bought, ex riding club or showjumper, has needed its teeth checked because it hasn't been done...

Racing is at the cutting edge of developments in forage. True, if you overfeed equine athletes, they will get too fat, just as your laminitic pony in a field full of lush grass will. Most of the developments in feeding, and indeed veterinary care, filter through to the riding club owner from the racing industry, which has the funds for research and development.

As for wastage, how many lower level amateur riders go through multiple horses, keeping them for a couple of years and then trading them in when they don't prove to be the armchair winning experience they are unrealistically looking for? How many times do we hear on here that its "better" for a horse to be pts than sold on or retired when its obviously just got a little old or stiff at age 14 or 15 after a hard working life?

3. the inbreeding & deterioration of the breed - surely you only have to loko at a horse like Quality Fair, or Chu Chin Chow to see how much the TB has changed for the worse recently.

I have never heard of these horses. I agree that the breed has deteriorated in that stamina and quality is being lost in favour of early precocity, but this isn't always apparant in the conformation but is more of an inherent genetic fault, which grading might not pick up.

Maybe the TB is moving towards two seperate breeds - the small, runty, fast maturing type, and the more powerful, quality and good bone later maturing type - you just have to look at horses like Denman to see the difference.
 
Sorry, but thats emotive clap trap. Have you ever got off your backside and worked on a couple of racing yards? Do you think they would accept you? Because I consider myself a good rider, was very experienced when a student and was still rejected by the top yards and watched pretty carefully by the medium level yards I did work at - I never rode work, for example, it would have taken me 2 or 3 years of proving myself to be allowed to do that. You simply wouldn't be able to balance on top of a young, entire horse with short stirrups and a minimal saddle on the gallops, surrounded by lots of fresh, excitable horses if you were a bad rider.

And of course they get their teeth checked! I can't think why you assume they don't. Its usually twice a year, but on some yards, the dentist would be there more regularly. As for not treated as individuals, you have one full-time lad or lass who looks after between 3 and 6 horses. They are groomed and ridden or turned out or led out in hand 6 days a week. True, there will be some cheaper yards where that doesn't happen, but it hardly compares to your average livery yard where the most individual attention from the often part-time staff the horses get is being chucked in a the field and brought back in each night, with the owner maybe riding at the weekend if enough time...

Certainly every horse I've ever bought, ex riding club or showjumper, has needed its teeth checked because it hasn't been done...

Racing is at the cutting edge of developments in forage. True, if you overfeed equine athletes, they will get too fat, just as your laminitic pony in a field full of lush grass will. Most of the developments in feeding, and indeed veterinary care, filter through to the riding club owner from the racing industry, which has the funds for research and development.

As for wastage, how many lower level amateur riders go through multiple horses, keeping them for a couple of years and then trading them in when they don't prove to be the armchair winning experience they are unrealistically looking for? How many times do we hear on here that its "better" for a horse to be pts than sold on or retired when its obviously just got a little old or stiff at age 14 or 15 after a hard working life?



I have never heard of these horses. I agree that the breed has deteriorated in that stamina and quality is being lost in favour of early precocity, but this isn't always apparant in the conformation but is more of an inherent genetic fault, which grading might not pick up.

Maybe the TB is moving towards two seperate breeds - the small, runty, fast maturing type, and the more powerful, quality and good bone later maturing type - you just have to look at horses like Denman to see the difference.

great post! :)
 
When I was on one of the yards filled with 2 year olds, the staff were 80% asian men, who were competent riders, no more, and one or two were really poor. One 2 year old was jibbing, throwing her head around and looked very distressed, the rider was hanging off the bit and badly balanced.

When I pointed this out to the head lad, and suggested it was her teeth which were the problem, he shrugged, why get their teeth checked, have her out of work, when the horse may be deemed too slow in 3 months.......

the horses had x3 armfuls of haylage a day, morning noon & evening, they had a big scoop of hard food twice a day, they were groomed immaculately,galloped twice a day for 20 mins, stabled 24x7 and frankly looked shell shocked (that's if they weren't weaving, cribbing and trying to get at each other through the bars between the stables).

This is one of the top 3(?) probably yards in the UK.

When the world famous trainer visited me to buy a pony for his granddaughter, I wouldn't have let him have the pony even had he asked. It would have gone to what they described as a luxurious setting, solariums, arenas, but no turn out at all, no way for a horse to live IMO.
 
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See this what I mean. This is rubbish. Most horses to go to the abattoirs for meat a coloured cobby things bred for meat. Yes some TB's do go, but they are not the majority. Where did you get this idea from?

From the recent welfare issue at Turners and recently from this article
scroll down for the figures for the UK and Ireland
http://www.horsefund.org/horse-racing-through-the-slaughter-pipeline-part4.php
This is the tragedy even if I disagree with racing 2 year old this is even worse in my mind the majority of race bred tbs are dead before their 5th birthday
If you can point me in the direction of scientific research that disproves this I am open minded enough to read it
 
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Racing is at the cutting edge of developments in forage. True, if you overfeed equine athletes, they will get too fat, just as your laminitic pony in a field full of lush grass will.
Having a laminitic (well controlled atm) myself I am really interested what these cutting edge developments in forage are. Could you elaborate?
 
Having a laminitic (well controlled atm) myself I am really interested what these cutting edge developments in forage are. Could you elaborate?

Err, no. I'm not your personal servant. Why don't you do some research as to where your current popular horse feed brands' ideas come from, and find out yourself?

Edited to add - if you read one of the main breeding and training industry journals, such as Pacemaker or TB Internet, or one of the American journals, you will find far more advanced articles on nutrition and feeding than you will in your average monthly horse magazine available on the supermarket shelves.
 
Sorry, but thats emotive clap trap. Have you ever got off your backside and worked on a couple of racing yards? Do you think they would accept you? Because I consider myself a good rider, was very experienced when a student and was still rejected by the top yards and watched pretty carefully by the medium level yards I did work at - I never rode work, for example, it would have taken me 2 or 3 years of proving myself to be allowed to do that. You simply wouldn't be able to balance on top of a young, entire horse with short stirrups and a minimal saddle on the gallops, surrounded by lots of fresh, excitable horses if you were a bad rider.

That is clearly not the case at large flat yards where lads fresh off the boat from Asia, it used to be Ireland are plonked on a 2 year old. You think they really test them rigorously in Sri Lanka to see how well they ride & send them back if they can't. I expect a jump yard to have high standards of riding but big flat yards are like factories IME

And of course they get their teeth checked! I can't think why you assume they don't. Its usually twice a year, but on some yards, the dentist would be there more regularly. As for not treated as individuals, you have one full-time lad or lass who looks after between 3 and 6 horses. They are groomed and ridden or turned out or led out in hand 6 days a week. True, there will be some cheaper yards where that doesn't happen, but it hardly compares to your average livery yard where the most individual attention from the often part-time staff the horses get is being chucked in a the field and brought back in each night, with the owner maybe riding at the weekend if enough time...

So you honestly think that an average RC club horse gets less one to one attention and affection, than a 2 year old in a yard of 180 others. That is just an odd stance really

Certainly every horse I've ever bought, ex riding club or showjumper, has needed its teeth checked because it hasn't been done...

You need to start buying decent horses from normal homes. I've had one or two whose teeth weren't great but everyone I know has their horses teeth checked

Racing is at the cutting edge of developments in forage. True, if you overfeed equine athletes, they will get too fat, just as your laminitic pony in a field full of lush grass will. Most of the developments in feeding, and indeed veterinary care, filter through to the riding club owner from the racing industry, which has the funds for research and development.

So figures relating to ulcers in racehorses are fictional are they? racehorses get lots of forage and little starch - That is complete nonsense, they are filled with hard food and on reduced forage. When interviewed before big races trainers always say they have withheld food, which may or may not be the right thing to do to win a race, but doesn't indicate the horse had a net of hay to ensure it doesn't get splash ulcers

As for wastage, how many lower level amateur riders go through multiple horses, keeping them for a couple of years and then trading them in when they don't prove to be the armchair winning experience they are unrealistically looking for? How many times do we hear on here that its "better" for a horse to be pts than sold on or retired when its obviously just got a little old or stiff at age 14 or 15 after a hard working life?

Really, I don't know what to say to this. You think amateur riders are renowned for high wastage levels of riding club horses, or is it the racing industry who ship them off to the knackerman at 3 when they are too slow, not fashionably bred, broken down. I am sure that is what you meant to say


I have never heard of these horses. I agree that the breed has deteriorated in that stamina and quality is being lost in favour of early precocity, but this isn't always apparant in the conformation but is more of an inherent genetic fault, which grading might not pick up.

Maybe the TB is moving towards two seperate breeds - the small, runty, fast maturing type, and the more powerful, quality and good bone later maturing type - you just have to look at horses like Denman to see the difference.

Dont assume no one else has visited a racing yard, or that if people get angry/passionate about something it is emotive nonsense.
 
With regards Siennas point 2 i have always seen racehorses teeth, feet and usually physio'd as its in the trainers interests to ensure horses are top health. Putting aside the care when racing, if we go back to the original question of whether its right to race 2yr olds, from a physical perspective there seems more evidence it can cause problems than it benefits. Also want to add that the job of head lad requires huge experience and i could only hope to know as much one day.
 
Having followed this thread from the start, my basic objection remains the same. Although its not something I would choose, I can live with the idea of someone sat on a 2yr old galloping flat out. And I think doing just that is less harmful than say intensive schooling on a 3yr old comp horse, or 3yrs of intensive schooling to get a 6yr old dressage horse performing extremely high level movements. But of course its not as simple as just getting on a 2yr old & galloping, its the whole production, lifestyle & failures that I object to. I'm not saying I think racing yards are evil places, but however kindly done, I just don't agree with everything that is necessary to get a 2yr old racing. Although for all the reasons already mentioned, I don't see any solution unless its a worldwide ruling.
 
Err, no. I'm not your personal servant. Why don't you do some research as to where your current popular horse feed brands' ideas come from, and find out yourself?

Edited to add - if you read one of the main breeding and training industry journals, such as Pacemaker or TB Internet, or one of the American journals, you will find far more advanced articles on nutrition and feeding than you will in your average monthly horse magazine available on the supermarket shelves.
Sorry you feel I'm asking you to be a servant. :(

I have done a good bit of research on feeding horses at my level of understanding and am currently doing the online equine nutrition course but thought you might have an insight that might be useful and helpful to me.

ps. Re feed companies well what would we all say and what would the consequences be if humans had to only eat grass and hay? We are not designed to digest grass and hay...
For me re horse nutrition, the starting point has to be trying to understand what and how the horse has evolved to eat and diigest.
 
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Well, good to know all our "beef" lasagnes are in fact failed little racehorses. Waste not, want not.

This has turned into a welfare debate of all horses really now. It's not about racing babies anymore.

It's nice to know there are people still willing to defend nice racing yards that give 5 star treatment of their charges... treatment that includes a lovely deep soft bed, dental care better than I give myself, heat lamps, groomed to a mirror-like shine. Does any of this matter to a horse? If it breaks, it's off, frozen (probably alive) on a lorry to france anyway.

Why can't we keep them in big barns like cows? Stop pretending they are athletes when they are just burger meat that we like to have a bit of fun with first. Cows have big soft beds, heat lamps etc. Access to good quality forage 24/7. In fact I think it's much better than sitting in a stable on your own 23:00hrs per day.

No-one seems to want to admit that the whole equine industry is trapped by it's own "success" and now the recession has come, everyone is trying to hide the fear. The fear that maybe the horse can no longer sustain them as a plaything so the defence barriers have come up, the game isn't fun anymore... but what to do with oneself now? Just carry on everybody, do what you've always done, everything will be FINE!

The whole market is saturated not just with tbs... with every popular breed you can imagine. Someone touched on the fact that the warmblood market has meant the rtr market has all but ground to a halt. I'm just wondering if the answer is NOT about stopping the racing of young tbs but, just stop breeding horses. There's clearly a gaping black hole in this economy which everyone is pedalling furiously to cover up.

Just wondering what the fall out is going to be of the latest Horse Meat Burger Scandal, probably nothing. As usual.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, sorry about that, I just think that the industry is a terrible reflection on the wastefulness and savage consumption of humanity. Everyone needs to take responsibility, not just massive breeders but small time breeders too and stop blaming everyone else.
 
I don't know what I'm trying to say, sorry about that, I just think that the industry is a terrible reflection on the wastefulness and savage consumption of humanity. Everyone needs to take responsibility, not just massive breeders but small time breeders too and stop blaming everyone else.
I understand. I agree wholeheartedly with this.
The thing is the discussion can't just be about racing babies because the issues are much wider and more complex than that. We aren't talking about modifying the production of a car with a tweak here and there. Horses are living creatures and are affected by everything in their lives and environment, negatively or positively. Unfortunately a living creature is so complex it's a case of doing all we can to make changes in all areas to improve things. There's also the big question of our attitude towards them that affects what we change and why. This imo is the biggest reason horses have so many problems. We often don't consider their needs but only how to get the end result we want through our eyes. These are two very different things I believe.
 
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From the recent welfare issue at Turners and recently from this article
scroll down for the figures for the UK and Ireland
http://www.horsefund.org/horse-racing-through-the-slaughter-pipeline-part4.php
This is the tragedy even if I disagree with racing 2 year old this is even worse in my mind the majority of race bred tbs are dead before their 5th birthday
If you can point me in the direction of scientific research that disproves this I am open minded enough to read it

You take one article, sorry, one biased article, which has been badly researched and take it as fact. Yes the article had references but some of the figures where from a decade ago, mixing with figures from 2010 making it very unreliable reading. Also there is a lot of assumptions that the 66% racehorses not making it to the track are all dead. A lot are point to pointing, hunting, eventing etc etc and a few will be dead.
Also the 'shock' that mares are given abortions in mind is actually a good idea. At least the unwanted foal was never born.

I think the statement in bold says it all really :rolleyes:
 
I think the point is that focusing on breeding certain lines that have precocious speed and inherent forelimb weakness combined with feeding and exercising for fast growth and development means it is more likely to happen at work or in a field.

Well said.

I don't believe any horse owning group has a monopoly on kindness.
As for the financial side, it's all relative. The average hobby owner after the initial outlay and daily expenditure is going to ride Old Ned come hell or high water. He's got to earn his keep even if he has to buted up to the eyeballs because he's hopping lame.
This for me puts preventive/remedial pin firing into perspective. At least when legs are held together with scar tissue you can see the damage although obviously it's banned now.
 
Well said.

I don't believe any horse owning group has a monopoly on kindness.
As for the financial side, it's all relative.[I] The average hobby owner after the initial outlay and daily expenditure is going to ride Old Ned come hell or high water. He's got to earn his keep even if he has to buted up to the eyeballs because he's hopping lame.[/I]This for me puts preventive/remedial pin firing into perspective. At least when legs are held together with scar tissue you can see the damage although obviously it's banned now.

Really? What sort of horse owners do you know. No one I know does this.
 
You take one article, sorry, one biased article, which has been badly researched and take it as fact. Yes the article had references but some of the figures where from a decade ago, mixing with figures from 2010 making it very unreliable reading. Also there is a lot of assumptions that the 66% racehorses not making it to the track are all dead. A lot are point to pointing, hunting, eventing etc etc and a few will be dead.
Also the 'shock' that mares are given abortions in mind is actually a good idea. At least the unwanted foal was never born.

I think the statement in bold says it all really :rolleyes:

It may be biased, everyone has a bias. But is it that far from the truth? How far removed is it from actual figures from say, 2012? If you took ALL horses from any track or arena that is bred for competition OR pleasure, what would the figures look like? Maybe we all just need to get a bit better at facing the truth instead of defending massive lies.
 
This for me puts preventive/remedial pin firing into perspective. At least when legs are held together with scar tissue you can see the damage although obviously it's banned now.

Not so. It isn't banned (unless very recently), it was but the ban was lifted. Firing isn't done in order to hold the leg together with scar tissue, scar tissue is something you want to avoid in tendons as much as possible, as it doesn't stretch. The nice name for firing (line/bar, pin or chemical/blistering) is counter irritation therapy, the thinking behind it is that the body, in trying to heal the damage caused by firing also improves the healing of the tendon. There is no evidence that it works, it's probably the box rest that actually helps the horse heal.

My ex-racer has been fired twice, the scarring does make it hard to disguise the fact that the horse has had leg trouble though. I had an interesting conversation with my vet about it last year, it seems that the practise is dying out. That can only be a good thing for the horses.
 
You take one article, sorry, one biased article, which has been badly researched and take it as fact. Yes the article had references but some of the figures where from a decade ago, mixing with figures from 2010 making it very unreliable reading. Also there is a lot of assumptions that the 66% racehorses not making it to the track are all dead. A lot are point to pointing, hunting, eventing etc etc and a few will be dead.
Also the 'shock' that mares are given abortions in mind is actually a good idea. At least the unwanted foal was never born.

I think the statement in bold says it all really :rolleyes:

rolling your eyes doesnt provide scientific researched and peer reviewed evidence to the contrary can you give that evidence to prove your theory is correct you asked for my evidence and I gave it. now over to you to provide peer reviewed evidence for your side. You also only bolded the bit that you wanted to misinterpret what I said "worse is the fact that the majority of tbs are dead by the time they are 5 years old"

You are the one that is biased not me you havent provided a shred of evidence to refute my evidence. Please do not be abusive just because you cannot do so it doesnt wear I am afraid. Regardless of the age of the evidence the fact that the investigation into Turners gave the same impression is as recent as January this year

I am not anti the racing industry at all I really enjoy a good race day what I do object to is the terrible waste caused by the overbreeding of poor quality stock just to get one or two superstars. All breeding stock should be sound, with good conformation and excellent temperament
 
in the grand scheme of things, getting at racehorse owners / trainers is the tip - and the problem with over breeding across the whole spectrum of horses/ ponies and the general ignorance there is now about how does one ride a horse / look after a horse et al is far more endemic than the 2 year old debate.

There is a huge difference here. Racing is an industry with standards set at a National Level that people have to adhere to. Resolving the welfare issues of private horses and ponies kept on a non-profit basis by individual owners is a task which can only be done by education and individual prosecutions.

The racing industry, on the other hand, could resolve the two year old problem overnight (I am not saying it would be right to do so) by several means, including:

- the betting industry refusing to take bets on two year old races.

- racecourses ceasing to run races for 2 year olds

- the managing body of jockeys instructing them that they cannot ride 2 year olds in races

and probably several others.

In my opinion it is missing the point to compare one off misdeeds by individuals with the institutionalised welfare issues of racing two year olds in order to generate massive profits for the betting industry and more moderate profits for breeding and training.





Re firing being banned.

Not so. It isn't banned (unless very recently), it was but the ban was lifted.

I researched this last year and there is a long thread on it somewhere. The BVA advised their members in writing that firing is, in their view, never justified as a clinical treatment, and that any member choosing to do it lays themselves open to prosecution under the Animal Welfare act.

That's not a ban, no, but it's as close as you can get to one.

The BVA are simply hanging fire until some other group prosecute one of their own members, at which point they will stand in court and point to their written advice that the practice is not clinically justified and the vet will be found guilty and a ban will be in place.
 
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In my opinion it is missing the point to compare one off misdeeds by individuals with the institutionalised welfare issues of racing two year olds in order to generate massive profits for the betting industry and more moderate profits for breeding and training.
I do think this is a very valid and important point.
 
Not so. It isn't banned (unless very recently), it was but the ban was lifted. Firing isn't done in order to hold the leg together with scar tissue, scar tissue is something you want to avoid in tendons as much as possible, as it doesn't stretch. The nice name for firing (line/bar, pin or chemical/blistering) is counter irritation therapy, the thinking behind it is that the body, in trying to heal the damage caused by firing also improves the healing of the tendon. There is no evidence that it works, it's probably the box rest that actually helps the horse heal.

My ex-racer has been fired twice, the scarring does make it hard to disguise the fact that the horse has had leg trouble though. I had an interesting conversation with my vet about it last year, it seems that the practise is dying out. That can only be a good thing for the horses.

Well, a ban can be a tacit prohibition by public opinion if you want to split hairs;). However, the RCVS stance was pretty unequivocal as late as Nov 2011 on the inefficacy of this practice. All it would take would be for someone to invoke the 2006 Animal Welfare Act.
I expect your horse needed to be fired twice because scar tissue is weak and breaks down. I do know how thermocautery works when used in this way:)
 
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