Should rescues buy from the meat man.

Dobiegirl

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Animal Heaven Animal Rescue
Yesterday at 11:56 ·
*********Code red***********
Calling my army from all over the world, I need you now.
The meat man rang.....
So far 9 ponies and a horse but the number may rise again by tonight.
Straight out, no I don't have the funds to buy them but we have the space as we homed so many this week and with three more going home tomorrow and eight more next week. Of course we can do this.
Over my dead body will I let these equines go to slaughter.
Who will join me?
They range from 80 eu to 150 eu
All thats in the way of my jeep and box and that journey and these lives is funds.
Please help, once we can pay for them we can worry about the other bills for them later and work on that.
Right now we need to get them the hell out of there fast.
If you can help, I need you now. No donation too small it all adds up to equal a life, and pray it all goes to plan for us.
Can I have all my volunteers on standby to take emergency calls for help. We have no idea what we are heading into.
Send us loads of luck and help us bring them all home xx
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So whats your thoughts on this, is it legit or a clever ploy to rake in more funds.
 

zaminda

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I don't agree with it in many cases. I'm sure there are some very sad stories, and I don't want to see live export, but there is a worse fate than death. It seems like a scam if you ask me, plus who is she rehoming to, and why were they there in the first place!
 

Orca

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Animals going to slaughter are far less needy than those suffering with no end in sight. I would prefer to see their efforts directed towards those suffering.

Besides which, it does smell like a scam. Are they being bought up as projects, produced and sold on? Either way, it doesn't sit right with me, when there are so many equines out there actually suffering.
 

gallopingby

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There are too many horses being bred but equally no where for them to go in a lot of cases - I would imagine they either come to the 'meat man' from other dealers because no one wants them or he buys them at a sale. The prices quoted are very low - it would cost more to dispose of privately than sell. Presumably a rehoming fee is charged and if this is the case I would imagine this is in excess of the purchase price. If you want to know more why not contact the organisation yourself or is this a wind up?
 

Dobiegirl

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Gallopingby, its not a wind up, I cant ask them a question as I was banned when I asked before whether they were going out with passports, my comment was deleted and I was banned, never even had time to take a screenshot.

Why dont you ask them the same question and see how you get on.
 

Woolly Hat n Wellies

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Speaking generally, in the majority of cases, I would think horses who have gone to the meat man have ended up there for a reason, and as other posters have said, there are fates worse than death.

As a child I had a pony which went to the meat man because my mother wasn't willing to let someone else's small child be put in danger by selling it on. If she'd subsequently found out it had been 'rescued', with the potential to be rehomed and end up with a child, she would have been livid.
 

dibbin

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I don't think they should. Those horses aren't going to be suffering (if they are at all) for much longer. Others are more in need of the help.
 

marmalade76

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Should rescues buy from the meat man? No, particularly when using someone else's money. I suppose the next thing will be appeals to buy hay, feed and rugs for these horses.
 

thatsmygirl

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I just don't agree with it, plus the way its worded " work out a way to pay for the other bills later" says that they can't afford it to me and may end up being the ones in trouble.
 

elliefiz

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I am not a fan of this rescue, I don't agree with creating a market wherein the meat man sells horses at rather inflated prices to the rescue. Having seen the condition of the ponies rescued, I doubt they would have fetched much when it came to meat. But I am fed up of people thinking the factory is a good end for their horses. If you can't afford to PTS humanely, then you can't afford a horse. Simple. Let's not fool ourselves that going to the meat man is a good ending for any horse, it's not. How many factories are operating in the UK? Not that many. Meat thus usually means live transportation abroad in horrific conditions. Sending horses for meat is not the answer to any problem, it creates a market where unscrupulous people will breed for meat. Have we all forgotten the atrocities of Amersham already? Those were meat horses. The meat man in question who is "selling" to the rescue is quite obviously keeping them in horrid conditions. What is the answer to that? Leave him to it??
 

elliefiz

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The prices are in euros... it's not the FRANCH thing again is it?

No, it's an Irish rescue. Sadly the horse welfare crisis in Ireland continues to get worse, it would appear this particular meat dealer is taking advantage of that by buying the poorest little ponies he can find and tugging the heart strings of this particular rescue who will then buy them off him. The rescue in question has supporters around the world who seem to donate lots of money and the lady who runs it all has a great way with words that persuades people to part with money regularly. I don't agree with it, but something has to be done because the rescue appears to have taken at least 10 horses from this man in the last 24 hours and they are in appalling condition.
 

ycbm

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I am not a fan of this rescue, I don't agree with creating a market wherein the meat man sells horses at rather inflated prices to the rescue. Having seen the condition of the ponies rescued, I doubt they would have fetched much when it came to meat. But I am fed up of people thinking the factory is a good end for their horses. If you can't afford to PTS humanely, then you can't afford a horse. Simple. Let's not fool ourselves that going to the meat man is a good ending for any horse, it's not. How many factories are operating in the UK? Not that many. Meat thus usually means live transportation abroad in horrific conditions. Sending horses for meat is not the answer to any problem, it creates a market where unscrupulous people will breed for meat. Have we all forgotten the atrocities of Amersham already? Those were meat horses. The meat man in question who is "selling" to the rescue is quite obviously keeping them in horrid conditions. What is the answer to that? Leave him to it??

I'm told that Potters do a kind and clean job with horses which are taken to them and if I lived close I would not rule out dressing a horse up to think he is going hunting, and taking him there.

It is not unscrupulous to breed horses for meat, it's no different than breeding cows for meat. Breeding for meat does not mean bad conditions and cruelty. That only applies to indiscriminate breeding, not caring whether the horse goes for meat or not. Animals deliberately bred for meat need to be well fed.

Do you have some evidence that this meat man was keeping the horses in bad conditions? He just sound like a canny dealer who knows this 'rescue' will give him a quick profit without the bother of actually fattening, killing and butchering the animals.

The 'rescue' itself? If I could shut it down I would.
 
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Knockadoon

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What if these horses have medical problems or are dangerous? I think their rehoming policy is extremely lax, neither the new owners or the horses themselves are adequately vetted. Some are sold on very quickly.The meat man must be delighted to have found someone willing buy all his stock. Creating a good market. The rescue probably mean well but these horses should probably have been put down.
 

stormox

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But is it legal? The 'meat man' advertises for 'factory horses' (in the UK they'd be termed 'knackers')- so people with a dangerous or unsound horse could contact him and he would take them to the abbatoir. Also the surplus unwanted horses/ponies, which surely is better than them being abandoned.
So AHAR then buys (meat man onto a good thing, ready cash and he doesnt have to drive 4 hoursto the abbatoir) these horses. Then they rehome them without doing a proper assessment.
Wrong IMO as whoever sends him a horse is expecting it to be put down,not resold. And a kind 're-homer' could end up with a dangerous horse and get hurt.
 

laura_nash

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Do you have some evidence that this meat man was keeping the horses in bad conditions? He just sound like a canny dealer who knows this 'rescue' will give him a quick profit without the bother of actually fattening, killing and butchering the animals.

I don't think the meat man is keeping the horses at all, he is just sourcing the poorest, sickest animals he can find because he knows he can sell them to the rescue. They are essentially paying this man to source rescue's for them, which is a bit mad considering the current crisis means there isn't exactly a shortage.

My main issue with this rescue is the impact on other organisations. I know a few people in the UK who have heard about this and tarred all Irish rescues with the same brush and I have had to persuade them that our local rescue (https://www.facebook.com/HungryhorseOutside/) is not a funding stream for the local meat man.
 

elliefiz

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I'm told that Potters do a kind and clean job with horses which are taken to them and if I lived close I would not rule out dressing a horse up to think he is going hunting, and taking him there.

It is not unscrupulous to breed horses for meat, it's no different than breeding cows for meat. Breeding for meat does not mean bad conditions and cruelty. That only applies to indiscriminate breeding, not caring whether the horse goes for meat or not. Animals deliberately bred for meat need to be well fed.

Do you have some evidence that this meat man was keeping the horses in bad conditions? He just sound like a canny dealer who knows this 'rescue' will give him a quick profit without the bother of actually fattening, killing and butchering the animals.

The 'rescue' itself? If I could shut it down I would.

I have seen the horses they rescued on their page, they are emaciated and in horrid condition. And I would really appreciate you giving some examples of scrupulous horse meat producers whose horses are kept in good conditions. I can think of several off the top of my head whose aren't, in my immediate area alone. Given that there aren't huge numbers of people out there producing horses for meat, I find it difficult to believe that everyone else out there is keeping horses in great condition and the several local to me are in the minority. I used Amersham as an example in an earlier post, there was also a huge rescue operation last year for horses in Bracknell that were owned by a man who kept them for meat who didn't bother to feed or water them for months and rescues had to eventually step in. Or the mountain ponies who are sold for meat for as little as £20, they receive no care, often die in harsh winters, the ones that survive are rounded up and sold, usually for meat. And knowing how little they will fetch for meat, it's hardly an incentive to start looking after them, same thoughts I imagine most have when they keep huge numbers of hairy cob types in unsuitable conditions and then sell them on for 300- 500 each to go abroad for meat.

And I have no idea why anyone would bring their horse off to the factory, what an undignified end. Get the local hunt around and pay them for disposal, pay a vet to do it humanly but to send for meat, to be slaughtered at a factory, well that I don't understand at all.
 
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chillipup

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I've taken the time to have a look at this rescues site. It's in Ireland. It appears to me to be pretty well from the looks of things. They take in all sorts of animals, are involved in actual physical rescues involving horses, donkeys and dogs, you name it. They don't mind getting their hands dirty. All the animals brought in, (they collect the death row dogs from the Kerry Dog pound weekly it seems, including Bitches with pups, lots and lots of abandoned Border Collies) are given vet checks and any that need it, receive veterinary treatment. The have a large team of what appears enthusiastic, reliable and willing volunteers. The raise their own funds and the owner/manager sounds capable and competent. (they intend to get charity status approval in the future) They seem to be all working very hard ,continually fund raising, but that's rescues for you! Of course they do? How else do you think they run? At least they seems very open and honest about what they are spending donated funds on. They have lots of foster carers, which I feel is much better than being kenneled for the dogs. They have good contacts with the dog wardens, police (or Guarda?) other dog/cat charities both in Ireland and the Uk. All the animals rescued/taken in, which are suitable, are put up for adoption and this too appears successful.

If this Rescue wishes to buy horses and ponies from the meat man, the odd pony or two from local horse fairs, a Macaw parrot from a pet shop, I don't see the problem. They are taking in far more abandoned, neglected, stay and unwanted animals than they actually purchase. It seems well run and very organised. Good on them. It's an often thankless, never ending and heartbreaking task running such an organisation.

But don't take my word for it -perhaps before jumping to conclusions and slagging them off, I suggest you take some time and take a look on the their site for yourselves. At least then, you can make an informed opinion.

OP, from the photos provided of these ponies on the site, I'd say it was more than legit and as for having to rake in more funds...they have to do this all the time! how else do think they are able to feed, house, provide bedding, veterinary treatment, pay farrier bills, vehicle running costs (to pick up the animals) and all the other associated costs? It's what every other rescue/rehoming centre has to do, including WHW, BHS, RSPCA Dogs Trust, Blue Cross etc etc.
 

Mrs. Jingle

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This particular 'rescue' s a complete sham and scam and is a disgrace here in Ireland and NOT at all what the true picture is over here with legitimate rescue centres. They are making tens of thousands of euro off the gullible supporters (if not more, that is a very conservative estimate of their annual income from there shady dealings.

The greatest pity is that they are diverting funds from other genuine organisations that are working day and night in Ireland to help and improve the lot of all abused animals over here, and there are many.

Perhaps this might shed some light on their dubious activity:https://www.facebook.com/Animal-Heaven-Animal-Rescue-AHAR-Exposed-795034397244586/?fref=ts
 

EQUIDAE

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As much as I disagree with it, I have a youngster that was going for slaughter - when you are actually faced with the animal in the flesh it's hard to say no. He will have a home for life with me though - what I don't agree with is those who are 'rescued' but have no guaranteed future. Most of these animals have poor conformation and longstanding health problems and have little future - one of the ones homed (again direct to an experienced home for life) died after 3 months due to a perforated bowel caused by a prolonged heavy worm burden.

It's such an emotive topic but I do believe only the best examples should be saved - those with the most chance of a permanent home. So many charities are struggling, so many horses end up in a worse situation, so many charities pass on these troubled animals to owners who have little experience with dealing with the physical and emotional damage. It really isn't in the best interest of the horses :(
 

meesha

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Seems crazy there are soo many border collies on death row, we tried to get one a year ago from rescue but couldn't get one, they were all snapped up in days. Ended up paying couple hundred for privately sold one , then paid for jabs, spaying etc. Wouldn't rather have given money to a rescue.

As for the meat horses, if they are bought at market by meat man then it's up to the rescue but I am sure there are others in more need of help than those who at least won't be left abandoned like so many.
 

ycbm

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I have seen the horses they rescued on their page, they are emaciated and in horrid condition.

You do not know if the meat man bought them in that condition or caused them to be in that condition. I think he bought them, which is why he wants rid because they are not fit to slaughter for meat and will cost too much money to get fit to slaughter for meat. They were probably part of a job lot.

And I would really appreciate you giving some examples of scrupulous horse meat producers whose horses are kept in good conditions

Breeders in the countries where they eat horse meat and have a proper market for horse meat. Often bought by people to use as heavyweight riding horses, e.g. Ardennes.

I think you are confusing 'bred for meat' and 'sent for meat cos it's turned out worth nothing', which is where the problems in the UK lie.



And I have no idea why anyone would bring their horse off to the factory, what an undignified end. Get the local hunt around and pay them for disposal, pay a vet to do it humanly but to send for meat, to be slaughtered at a factory, well that I don't understand at all.

They are shot individually at Potters, I'm told by my friend who has been there. Apart from not being at home, it's identical to being shot at home. To a horse used to traveling, and fit to travel, I see no problem if the owner stays to the end.
 
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laura_nash

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At least they seems very open and honest about what they are spending donated funds on.

I don't know the rescue personally, but this at least is not true. Try asking a difficult question (by which I mean one that is not totally supportive and gushing, still perfectly polite) on their website and see what happens! They are not very open.
 

AmyMay

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In the majority of cases 'no'. But there is sometimes the odd case in which it can be justified.

As for the OP, I'm sure it's legit - but justified, let alone sensible? Probably not.
 

EQUIDAE

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A think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from where the meat is going. I get the impression that some think the animals are going for human consumption on the continent. Most however go to zoos and for pet food, hence why the value is so little.
 

Dobiegirl

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No transparency, no updates, lots of stirring speeches to generate more money, as Laura Nash said ask them a question and see what happens, I asked if they were passported and my comment was deleted and I was banned.

Lots of dogs being bought from puppy farmers with no questions asked, dogs taken in with terrible health issues but no attempt to report the owners, they are not a genuine rescue by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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