Should we ban whips??

[SEL]

I've only just seen the video but even before that I've been uncomfortable for some time with the use of whips - it's just so easy to escalate if something isn't going according to plan.

I walked away from an instructor who was whip heavy and went back to gently schooling my unbalanced pony so he felt comfortable giving me a more forward gait rather than it being bullied out of him. I've winced watching a video of a young relative at a riding school being told to "give him a smack"

I've walked away from another instructor who said it was just pressure and release and was told I needed the whip because I wasn't a strong enough rider. Well teach me better then.

I grew up from a very, very young age with the pony club kick and smack mentality and sadly I see it with too many instructors still.

When you think about it using a whip or even threatening the use of one is not ethical.

 

[Nonjumper]

Nothing we do with horses is ethical, when you think about it.

Personally I'd prefer to see spurs go first, then whips. Both are regularly misused, yet both have their place. However you will quickly go down a rabbit hole when thinking of the stuff we do to horses on a daily basis.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Yes we should. I don't own a whip.

 

[Kaylum]

Never used one on my horse but always carried one for getting dogs away and keeping cars a safe distance. Voices should be allowed in all equestrian sports.

 

[canteron]

Interesting question - however if the alternative is endlessly kicking the horse in the ribs then who knows.

Training a backward thinking horse to be forward thinking is not taught very well? Talking of which has anyone bought the TRT module on a lazy horse - would like to see his method?

 

[P.forpony]

Whips, bits, spurs, saddles, legs....

They're all tools we use for communication. They're all capable of causing pain to a horse.
The problem is never with the tool it's the human operating it.
If we don't have the self control not to yank on a rein or smack in anger, then to me that's the true issue to address.

 

[cauda equina]

Whips could be banned in public but it would be very hard to ban their use in private, where the worst things probably go on
Even if whips were no longer sold there's always a hazel switch in the hedge

 

[HelenBack]

Nothing we do with horses is ethical, when you think about it.

Personally I'd prefer to see spurs go first, then whips. Both are regularly misused, yet both have their place. However you will quickly go down a rabbit hole when thinking of the stuff we do to horses on a daily basis.

I agree with this. What has happened is making me question everything I do with my horses and how ethical any of it is. Those thoughts lurk at the back of my mind a lot of the time anyway but are larger at the minute.

Also agree that the voice should be allowed and is a much more effective and kinder aid than whips and spurs.

 

[NinjaPony]

I really get the impulse to ban them and tbh I haven’t used a short whip for years and years. I’m not ever going to be using a whip with my hand off the rein, there is no need. I do find schooling whips really helpful for cues. I can touch the top of the hind quarters when teaching leg yield, or give a flick on the shoulder before asking for a medium trot. Useful on the ground too, I can point it at my pony’s quarters to ask for a turn on the forehand, or at his chest to ask for rein back.

The problem is the smacking. I don’t know how you police that, but no whip should ever be used to smack a horse unless you are in serious danger from that horse.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I sometimes school with a whip as my horse is lazy but I never take my hand off the rein to use it. I just waggle it around, that's enough. If I actually smacked him I have no doubt I would be bucked off.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

A whip to me is a back up aid not a punishment aid. I hardly ever ride with one unless schooling or jumping. Even then it’s a back up to my leg aids.

If we ban whips how do disabled riders without use of legs use aids? Whips have a place but certainly not for use as a punishment. I have smacked a horse in frustration and immediately felt like absolute garbage and worthless after it. That was a teaching moment for me. People learn from mistakes, universe knows I have made many over the years and each was a hard teaching moment.

 

[twiggy2]

A whip is a communication tool just like the bit, the reins and your legs etc. It is how they are used that is the issue.
I use a whip to point at what i would like to move, to bring attention to an area, i dont strike a horse with it.

 

[cornbrodolly]

I think the time will come when no whip is allowed in competitive riding - and I would agree with that. I havent ridden with a whip since a little horse I had was terrified of them [ he had been beaten as a driving horse] , and never felt the need of one. It just didnt seem necessary. That included backing horses, showing, hunting etc. That is , until recently , because I can only ride side saddle now! My mare was a little surprised at the whip, as she had never been ridden with one, but adapted quickly. So in some cases carrying one is a 'necessary evil' , but it s an aid that can be too easily abused and perhaps should be discouraged at all levels .

 

[webble]

Never used one on my horse but always carried one for getting dogs away and keeping cars a safe distance. Voices should be allowed in all equestrian sports.

Yup I like the extra space mine can give me from vehicles when I carry it at 90 degrees

 

[adamntitch]

Whips have there place ie lunging (sp) a flick behide never making contact can help or a little flick on the shoulder when jumping can bring there attention back if there spooking or not listening never a behide the saddle smack tho

 

[JackFrost]

Every single time I have seen a whip being used in anger, punishment or frustration, it's been by a child or young person, sometimes horrendously.
I'd like to see the Pony Club and riding schools stop all use of whips by children.

 

[LittleLegs&Co]

As a carriage driver - no, they are an essential aid as we can't communicate in the same way using our legs and seat as when riding. But they should be used as just that - an aid for communication, not a beating stick. I'll hold my hands up, I have been guilty in the past of overusing mine (never to beat the crap out of my horse, but I have used it to push more than I should, and I still find myself nagging with it at times - but I'm aware of it now and I'm learning and I'm trying hard not to) I use it mostly when schooling to help with direction, a brush on the shoulder to help stop my horse falling in etc. They are also fairly essential for safety, where you'd use your leg as a reminder to stay straight on a road for example, rather than swinging into traffic (or a ditch)
We are allowed to use our voices as an aid in carriage driving - that's usually far more effective than the whip anyway! Never really understood why you can't use vocal aids when ridingtoo
Yes - we need to be better at pulling up excessive whip use, in competitions and in training, and I'm not sure how you set a line between what's ok and what's not. So much is down to attitude of riders/drivers to accept when a steward or official pulls them up on something unacceptable, which in turn will make it easier for officials to manage (rather than avoiding the issue in case of getting their heads bitten off)
I hope the events of the past couple of days will help drive a change in attitude amongst equestrians (riders, drivers and those working on the ground) to be more self aware of what they are doing with the whip, what they're actually trying to get from it (and where this is a result of our own impatience and lack of ability, rather than the horse), and how that's perceived to the wider world. It's far wider than just whips (or any other aid we use) - it's the whole question of us having the right and priviledge to work alongside these beautiful, clever animals

 

[pistolpete]

I think for horses that are quiet and confident they soon ignore a whip for the hotter less confident horses they just cause anxiety. Either way I don’t routinely use one. I do carry one out hacking to push branches away or help closing gates but hitting horses with a stick needs to be banned. Like hitting children or dogs. I often wonder if horses could cry out in pain like a yelp the noise from completions would be deafening.

 

[Roxylola]

I was so determined not to get drawn in to all of this and here I am.
I'm a no for banning whips - helpful for all the reasons above out hacking, I use mine far more for cars and dogs than anything else. But ultimately, if my dog stopped in the middle of the road, or went to run in to traffic id physically prevent that probably by picking the dog up or (don't lose your minds please it's an emergency moment) I'd possibly just cart them along by their lead. Because one moment of vileness from me in that situation might save their life.

By the same token I will use my whip to keep my horse safe - if that means a smack because for a second the daffodils look scarier than the truck coming up behind us I'll dish out a smack. I don't love it but sometimes a situation happens and your best option is just to get out of it asap

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Voices should be allowed in all equestrian sports.

Definitely! I didn’t realise using voice would occur in penalties, our first dressage test on grass I asked for canter using my voice twice and got +4.. I trained to the voice. I should have looked up the rules but.. Madness!

 

[Skib]

You mustnt use voice in dressage because dressage was training for miltary horses and speaking to your horse would give away your position. German tanks benefitted in WW2 because Russian soldiers always talked to their horses and Russian cavalry was used inconjunction with tanks.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Don't ban the object, ban the behavior.

If the behavior has consequences and is not accepted amongst damn near anyone, then the object won't be an issue, because it's not the root of the problem.

 

[Polos Mum]

I ride with one all the time, i swish flies with it, have been know to smack car windscreens passing too close / same dogs, most effective is to thwack it on my own leg and the noise gets just the reaction I want

I think anything can be used inappropriately - if someone wants to beat a horse onto a horse box - brooms are often suggested - we can't ban brooms !
A tree branch is often used by friends who forget to pick up a stick (with the leaves left on it makes an even better fly swat)

We have to address the culture not the items

100% agree on the voice - madness that incurs penalties

 

[catkin]

I was so determined not to get drawn in to all of this and here I am.
I'm a no for banning whips - helpful for all the reasons above out hacking, I use mine far more for cars and dogs than anything else. But ultimately, if my dog stopped in the middle of the road, or went to run in to traffic id physically prevent that probably by picking the dog up or (don't lose your minds please it's an emergency moment) I'd possibly just cart them along by their lead. Because one moment of vileness from me in that situation might save their life.

By the same token I will use my whip to keep my horse safe - if that means a smack because for a second the daffodils look scarier than the truck coming up behind us I'll dish out a smack. I don't love it but sometimes a situation happens and your best option is just to get out of it asap

This.

I nearly always carry a long schooling whip out hacking. This time of year it has streamers tied on the end to make a fly-switch which various ponies have appreciated. Also discovered that if those streamers are hi-viz it works well to help being seen by other road users.

 

[paddi22]

If whips, spurs, and harsh bits were banned for training, it would definitely open up more communication between horse and rider and let the horses voice and view increase. I always hate the idea that horses are punished for not jumping or doing a move that the rider wants. It takes away the choice that the horse has to say they don't want to do it or they can't physically. If we respect an animals then surely we have to respect their views on the work they are often being forced to do?

 

[Kaylum]

You mustnt use voice in dressage because dressage was training for miltary horses and speaking to your horse would give away your position. German tanks benefitted in WW2 because Russian soldiers always talked to their horses and Russian cavalry was used inconjunction with tanks.

Isn't that ridiculous nowadays x

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I don't ride with one anymore neither of my horses need one really they are both forward enough, I did carry one sometimes in the woods but it was incase we came across any unruly dogs.

 

[JFTDWS]

I like to have a whip out hacking to sweep flies off bits I can’t reach and for loose dogs.

I think “the voice is banned because it helps the Nazis” is one of the wildest takes I’ve ever seen though!

 

[AandK]

I carry a whip out hacking for safety, opening gates/swatting flies, not had to use in a dog scenario but like to know it’s there just in case!
Don’t really use it schooling, just carry it out of habit.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I've only just seen the video but even before that I've been uncomfortable for some time with the use of whips - it's just so easy to escalate if something isn't going according to plan.

I walked away from an instructor who was whip heavy and went back to gently schooling my unbalanced pony so he felt comfortable giving me a more forward gait rather than it being bullied out of him. I've winced watching a video of a young relative at a riding school being told to "give him a smack"

I've walked away from another instructor who said it was just pressure and release and was told I needed the whip because I wasn't a strong enough rider. Well teach me better then.

I grew up from a very, very young age with the pony club kick and smack mentality and sadly I see it with too many instructors still.

When you think about it using a whip or even threatening the use of one is not ethical.

A whip/crop, is an artificial aid which is a back up top the leg, if the horse chooses to ignore the leg as spurs are. So if whips are banned you might as well ban spurs, draw reins, or nose bands. There is nothing wrong with using artificial aids as long as you know how to use it- when to use it and not over use it.

Jeepers if I didn't use a whip occasionally on my mare my legs would drop off, she is lazy and ignores the legs unless you spend 10 mins being firm with her.

Always carry my hi viz whip when hacking to make cars go wide and hit them if they get too close.