Should we take responsibility for the horses we take hacking?

I no longer ride and stopped riding on the roads a few years before I had to give up altogether. I get scared by riders when I am driving now. Nine times out of ten the riders I meet locally will pull their horse's nose towards the grass verge when a car approaches in the mistaken belief it is going to make their horse get closer to the grass verge. They do not seem to understand that this leaves the horse free to swing his hindquarters into the road or/and escape through the outside shoulder. All horses which go on the roads should be able to move away from the leg in an easy leg yield at least or, even better, a shoulder in. Rant over.
 
Goldenstar said:
Of we are responsible for the horses we take out hacking .
Horses can be trained to accept things and be confident .
That's our job.
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Agree. I don't think absolute avoidance of all 'scary' things is the answer. It's our responsibility to help our horses be as relaxed and confident as possible in all situation. At the very least the rider should be confident that they know what to do if faced with something that really frightens the horse.

I am blessed with amazing off road hacking and don't need to go near a road if I want to, however we take the girls on the roads every now and then to remind them how to behave in traffic.
 
planete said:
I no longer ride and stopped riding on the roads a few years before I had to give up altogether. I get scared by riders when I am driving now. Nine times out of ten the riders I meet locally will pull their horse's nose towards the grass verge when a car approaches in the mistaken belief it is going to make their horse get closer to the grass verge. They do not seem to understand that this leaves the horse free to swing his hindquarters into the road or/and escape through the outside shoulder. All horses which go on the roads should be able to move away from the leg in an easy leg yield at least or, even better, a shoulder in. Rant over.
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This surprises me too. No horse goes out on the road from my place until leg yield left has been perfected at home.

That, and that riders aren't taught that the safest way to be on the road is to dominate your lane. Cyclists and motorcyclists call this 'riding high'. If on a single track road, that means ride down the middle of the road. And stay in the middle until any approaching car has already slowed down, then move over when safe to do so. If they don't slow, don't move. They all value their cars to much to mow down half a ton of horse. And if on a two way road, ride three feet or more away from the kerb. Don't leave anyone room to believe that they have enough space to pass you while another car is coming the other way. It also gives your horse room to move over to the near side if someone does pass you too close.

I see my friends and neighbours out riding, little or no high viz, stuck to the far left hand side of the road and think 'accident waiting to happen'.
 
ycbm said:
If on a single track road, that means ride down the middle of the road. And stay in the middle until any approaching car has already slowed down, then move over when safe to do so.
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problem is on our roads that doesn't stop one of the biggest menaces. Bikes. Not the family out for an afternoon ride but the lycra clad racing ones. They overtake, undertake and no amount of explaining that if your pedal hits my horse's leg as you try and squeeze past he will kick you seems to get through.
Biggest problem is not having a rear view mirror on a horse so you know they are there.
 
paddy555 said:
problem is on our roads that doesn't stop one of the biggest menaces. Bikes. Not the family out for an afternoon ride but the lycra clad racing ones. They overtake, undertake and no amount of explaining that if your pedal hits my horse's leg as you try and squeeze past he will kick you seems to get through.
Biggest problem is not having a rear view mirror on a horse so you know they are there.
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I agree, on little roads bikers are some of the worst. I had one this morning speed past with no warning at all, idiot.
 
My horse isn't entirely shockproof. But I do expect him to control himself and behave no matter how wound up he might feel. It hasn't always worked and a few times over the 13 years I've had him we have had to ask traffic to stop, but given all I've done for 12 of those years is on road hacking I don't think that's bad. Now he's older he's a bit less fiery lol
 
We bought an Appaloosa mare who we later found to be claustrophobic. She hated being confined in small stables, low roofs, trailers and was OK with big traffic on wide roads but awful on narrow lanes. We always hacked her in company and she did improve but only if the companion was between her and the bus/tractor etc. One of the bombproof companions were very indulgent of her foibles and always accommodated her and checked that she was OK. The other bombproof companion was much more impatient with her, although she did shield her from big vehicles, that was actually the best approach as the Appaloosa would just stand quietly and not be so dependent on that companion. I certainly wouldn't ever have thought it was safe to hack her out on her own, for everyone's safety.
 
My cob is very good with traffic, he will happily pass lorries, buses, tractors and motorbikes but when a group of about 20 cyclists overtook him on the road he took off up the middle of the road in total panic. On coming traffic had to stop for him as I got him back under control, he then stood shaking as all the bikes filed past. I couldn't guarantee he wouldn't do it again. I think in areas where there are horses, yes we should try to make our horses as traffic proof as possible but drivers should act responsibly also and be aware that horses cannot be relied upon.
 
Leo Walker said:
My boy is currently being schooled and I got a message on Thursday to say he had reacted to a motorbike and leapt about and tried to sod off. Hes being ridden by a pro rider and the fact she thought to say he had done that made me think it wasnt something I would ever want a "normal" rider to have to deal with on the road.

My first thought was that I couldn't guarantee he wouldn't ever meet a motorbike so he wouldn't be going on the road again. It would have been a nightmare for me as hes predominantly a driving horse so the plan is he will spend a lot of time driving on roads.

It turns out he was in the school at the time and it backs on to a cafe that is a biker hang out. Apparently as my rider got on about 10 big bikes started up with an almighty roar and he reacted. I can forgive him this as the school fence is 6 feet from a wall and behind that wall is a biker cafe and even I've felt a bit twitchy hearing the noise sometimes. I feel ok about him hacking on roads as the aforementioned bikes have driven passed him in convoy on the road and he hasnt even flicked an eyelid. It was just the sudden and unexpected noise that he couldnt see the source off that set him off.
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this for me would simply be an excellent opportunity to train him to sudden loud noises. i would train and desensitise him to them until his only reaction was to look up calmly and go back to eating or standing quietly. Lots of ground work in that area of the school, long reining, lunging, just standing and talking to him, eating his hay, being penned into that corner. Again and again. Not only will it desensitise him for bikes starting up but for other sudden loud noises. Then riding in that part of the school. If after training he still cannot cope then obviously he is not up to any roads where this could happen. Otherwise he will have learnt how to cope. If you ride him in that area with the bikes then you too will gain confidence from it.
 
I bought my horse as a 2 year old (he is now 18). Since he was raised on a stud farm miles from any traffic I made a point of getting used to heavy traffic before he was broken in. Since I live on a farm this was in part made easier as he saw tractors and trailers and so on around the yard all the time. But I found him some grazing next to a busy road where lorries were going past all day, and also there was a railway line at one end of the field too! (I read Black Beauty).

I know that it isn't always easy to find the right place, but it is worth it.
 
Am following this thread with interest:

We'd just got back from a hack earlier this afternoon - my cob and loan pony (Exmoor). Cobbie is OK'ish with most things like tractors, usually 99% OK unless it rattles or looks different; Exmoor pony is a sweet little mare, but genuinely afraid of big noisy stuff.

We don't have anywhere to hack apart from the roads, or have to use roads to get anywhere decent anyway.

Having just got back and were unsaddling, heard one helluva racket, and a convoy of SEVENTEEN, yes, seventeen, historic tractors went past our place. OMG, So so glad we weren't out there on the road to meet that lot. They were all in close convoy, one after the other, drivers all grinning like a lot of apes.

Even my old boy, bombproof as he was, bless him, might have struggled with that lot. I did a Google search and there is indeed a "Tractor rally" in the area scheduled for today. I have contacted who I believe to be the organiser and asked them - as politely as possible - if they could please put some notices up in future to say such an event is happening and given myself as a contact to notify the local riding population.

This is the problem nowadays: the roads are used by all and sundry as their personal race-tracks (cycle races REALLY really wind me up, IMO the public highway should not ever be used for a racetrack, there's just no justification). Horses now are having to come face-to-face with stuff that we never used to have to cope with when we were kids. There is a quarry in the area, has been ever since I can remember, and I rode through there as a kid, still do now.

Last weekend we were out and encountered nine trials bikes on the road. Nowadays you can encounter more scarey stuff on one hack alone, than any horse would ever have to cope with in its lifetime say forty years ago.

The public highway IS becoming way too scarey to ride on: god alone knows how much more we'll all be able to keep on doing it. I'd love to be able to ride-out straight onto open land with no roadwork at all, but sadly that is the stuff of phantasy's................. :(
 
I took one of mine out for a drive this morning. We met a loud, throaty bright red motor bike in a tight spot in the middle of a thatched village (inches of clearance, spooky window boxes one side and parked cars the other), and a c.1910 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost doing 60mph towards us around a blind corner (other side of the road - he wasn't doing anything wrong). Pony didn't bat an eyelid at either.

We meet just about everything. The nature of the traffic is not an issue if the horse is properly prepared. I appreciate that this can be challenging, but avoiding roads is not the answer. It's also downright dangerous, as you can NEVER be certain your horse won't end up on a road as a result of an incident - do you really want it running around like an idiot when that happens?
 
One of mine really isn't suitable to be ridden on the roads. He is naturally spooky but also has developed a vision problem in one eyes which has made his spookiness worse. I don't hack him on the road anymore because i do think their is a higher than normal chance of having an accident. So i suppose I have taken responsibility there.
But I do find with horses in general, ownership of the road, as another poster described makes a big difference. My area also has an influx of city drivers who don't seem to realise that horses and cattle are sentient beings, not inanimate objects like cars. :(
 
I feel I have made my boy nervous traffic, particularly motorbikes, all for no reason except that as I didn't know him well I worried about how he would be. As a rider it's very easy to create your own problem, and I have done a very good job of that :(
 
I got SERIOUSLY run away with- over half a mile, flat out,- when 30 noisy vintage cars came by - I had no idea there was a rally on. Ended up in someones front garden with the horse stuck with front legs one side of a hedge and hind legs the other,. Not one of the cars slowed or stopped.
 
Leo Walker said:
Should we be taking spooky/sharp horses on the road? Obviously all horses can spook but some are spooky by nature. But is it ok to hack on the road with them? No horse actually needs to go on the road. Worse case scenario you dont have to ride them if thats your only option.

I'm not totally sure how I feel so would be interested to hear peoples thoughts :)
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I used to have a TB mare who would quite frequently spook at manholes/drains/flowers/leaves/bags/cans and spin her bum into the road or totally spin around into the road. After owning her for seven years and never been hit by a car despite her bouts of spookiness (mingled with hundreds of times she didn't spook) I came to the conclusion that they are not stupid animal and are very unlikely to actually spook into the path of a car as they understand they might get hurt.She was desensitized to drains lots of times, but would then find something new to spook at.As for if this was my only choice then of course I would continue to ride on the roads. The amount of money they cost to own, if that is all you could do then of course you would continue to do so but like others have said you would take precautions to try to desensitize them and wear hi vis at all times.
 
Yep riders responsibility!
I am riding a horse at the moment that was virtually 100% in traffic (well lanes/country roads). A couple of months back a car drove past him ,slowly, but unfortunately went onto the verge too far( there was plenty of room to get by but I think the driver was a bit worried by horses), splashed into a huge pothole and took the exhaust off of the car!. This obviously made a awful noise. The horse is now scared of any vehicles coming towards him, especially if they drive on a stony bit/through a puddle. He will let them pass but he has to be stood still. I'm trying to almost ignore the traffic by talking to him, not changing rein contact ect but the only way he will have a chance to get over his fear is by going on the roads, we have to ride on roads to get anywhere unfortunately.
 
A is the best horse I've ever ridden in traffic and I'll happily take him out on any road alone or in company (we are usually the babysitter for young / spooky horses). When I tried him, a load of boy racers charged past us at about 70mph and let off their dump valves right next to us. He didn't bat an eyelid and I decided then and there to buy him. M is fine in company and while he will go out alone, he's constantly on edge and clearly doesn't enjoy it so I don't do it other than a quick trip around our "little block" - a 10 minute circular hack - to warm up for going in the school as he's familiar and happy with it and that stretch of road is nice and wide.

I will not take a horse on the road that isn't good in traffic and I will pay a premium for one that is. It's always at the top of my wishlist. While I'd happily buy a youngster in every other aspect, I don't have the facilities, time or inclination to do traffic training. All the hacking from our yard requires 15 minutes of road work on a lane that was never designed for the amount of traffic that uses it so it's not really suitable for building up a horse's confidence in traffic. The other day Arch and I came across a full size 53 seater coach trying to get down it. It's a good job we were a horse and rider as a car would never have got past it on the stretch we found it, any driver would have been reversing for about 100m. As it was, the bus stopped and Arch and I squeezed past the first 5m of bus into a driveway and waved it on its way. Any horse I buy would have to do the same with the same nonchalance. It's the one thing I won't compromise on.
 
My horses are all very good in traffic - a number of our bridle ways run next to a very busy 4 lane A-Road and in some places is only separated by a wire fence and about a lanes width of verge.

However, they are horses. 'Weird' or very loud things I'd always expect a reaction to if they had never encountered it before, I expose them to as much as possible to keep us safe and train to mitigate whatever reactions they may have, but there may always be *something* so I am not one of these riders on the buckle looking at their phones!

Equally as well I do always try not to put the horses in a position where they may not cope. I am reasonably confident in saying I could stand them in a drive way so they can see and just about anything could go past.

Do I want to ride on the road: No. However, I do not want me or my horses confined to a school, so needs must. I just think we owe it to everyone involved using the roads (including the horse) to try and do as best we can to make it as safe as possible.
 
Absolutely our responsibility as riders to ensure the safety of us/our horses/other road users when taking horses out and about.
I had a horse on lwtb a few years ago now. He was being bought directly from the breeder who backed him for me and I went and visited him a number of times before bringing him back. Unfortunately on one of my visits I was long reining him round their lanes and we came face to face with a logging truck who just didn't stop. Cue one immensely, genuinely frightened horse. We put some more work into him and he came back to me in Surrey (from the Welsh mountains) It soon became apparent that the difference in traffic between the 2 areas was more than he could handle. I was happy to take on quirks and greenness but he went back as dealing with traffic fear wasn't for me. My feeling was that the horse is too unreliable/unpredictable and you are too reliant on other road users being understanding and the potential repercussions too high to want to work on this quirk/fear. So he went back, which absolutely broke my heart but was equally the right thing to do at the time.
My only requirement that is a MUST when horse shopping is that the horse will hack alone in traffic nicely. I took my old boy and old share horse down the a4 and around Hounslow, my current mare hacks along the A246 (I time it to avoid traffic as much as possible, ensure we are hi-vizzed up to the eyeballs and if she's seeming spooky getting ready we go elsewhere) But even a roads aside, I have to hack on country lanes to get anywhere really.
So for me I simply wouldn't have a horse that couldn't. But I'd something happened whilst I had them to make it otherwise I would ensure we worked on their response safely (turnout in fields next to roads, hacking with bombproof company, borrowing friends to drive past us etc) in the most controlled environments possible whilst ensuring that their exercise/down time was away from the roads for safety sake as I simply don't think it's worth the risk otherwise.
 
My horse (owned less than a year) is good in traffic, meaning farm machinery and country lanes, all of which going very slow! I rarely ride on the main road (rural main road), but before I did I spent a long time long reining etc, getting him forward etc, listening and confident. All was good, until recently he got spooked, I came off, literally couldnt get back on and had to lead back along the main road (only 1/10th mile if that), straight road we were perfectly visible and traffic has enough time to slow down sensibly but some d****** flew past me with a flatbed trailer that was less than a foot away from hitting my horse. Of course horse heard it coming and panicked, if he didn't have a bridle on I could not have held onto him. Thankfully others slowed and I was able to get him down a lane with no issues. But I really struggled to keep a slightest amount of control, it is scary because they can be so unpredictable and not all drivers understand/respect a horse on the road. Alas he wont even go in that direction now, and is so nervy, back to the long reining!
 
Leo Walker said:
No horse actually needs to go on the road. Worse case scenario you dont have to ride them if thats your only option.
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Actually some horses DO need to go on the road. I have no off-road riding near me. I ride on the lanes or I don't ride at all.

(Unless of course I want to box up, travel 30 mins and pay £10 to hire a school - which I can't/don't).
 
This is interesting. I've a young horse who is in general very good with most things however we have mostly 60 mile limit roads and it's difficult to get him used to traffic.
Also being young he could spook at something in the hedge and jump in to traffic.
I'm doing my best to traffic proof him given my circumstances but I really worry he could end up getting injured.
Any tips or ideas on how to traffic proof him?
 
Dave's Mam said:
My cob when I was young spent his holidays in a field with a railway on one edge & a dual carriageway on the other. The only way to get them used to traffic is to expose them to it. Dave will be walked out as part of his training. His field has some good noisy traffic going by it just now.
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This is what I did with mine. There was a railway line at one end and heavy lorries used to go past all day. There is a local "nagsman" living next to the M42 who will take horses in for getting used to traffic. First they go in a field next to the motorway, then he will take them out and just sit on them and let them graze next to lots of noisy traffic. It can take a few days. Someone said that if they bought a new horse they would want it to have been brought up on a Dudley roundabout. Her previous horse had been crossing a railway line when a train went underneath, just as a bus was overtaking. He didn't turn a hair.

OP - I think ANY horse would have been frightened by an unseen loud noise, that isn't at all the same as hacking along a road and being unsafe if a motorbike passed. We are fortunate here that any motorbikes that I see are very courteous but you can come across morons I know. Actually most motorcyclists are quite old now and more considerate!
 
3Beasties said:
Actually some horses DO need to go on the road. I have no off-road riding near me. I ride on the lanes or I don't ride at all.

(Unless of course I want to box up, travel 30 mins and pay £10 to hire a school - which I can't/don't).
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This. Perhaps some people have more of a luxury of off road riding so its easy to say! I have two horses one that is v good on roads and one that's petrifyed of lorries/large vehicles. Both do loads of road riding. Its up to me to manage/control the other one when there's a large vehicle. All horses spook no one would ride anywhere if we all stopping road riding because of it.
 
Orangehorse said:
This is what I did with mine. There was a railway line at one end and heavy lorries used to go past all day. There is a local "nagsman" living next to the M42 who will take horses in for getting used to traffic. First they go in a field next to the motorway, then he will take them out and just sit on them and let them graze next to lots of noisy traffic. It can take a few days. Someone said that if they bought a new horse they would want it to have been brought up on a Dudley roundabout. Her previous horse had been crossing a railway line when a train went underneath, just as a bus was overtaking. He didn't turn a hair.

OP - I think ANY horse would have been frightened by an unseen loud noise, that isn't at all the same as hacking along a road and being unsafe if a motorbike passed. We are fortunate here that any motorbikes that I see are very courteous but you can come across morons I know. Actually most motorcyclists are quite old now and more considerate!
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This is an old post now, and I've not gone back and read the OP but I do remember it. The horse in question went on to be the safest horse in traffic I have ever owned. I could have taken him down the M1. But just a couple of weeks ago he had an accident in the carriage. Spooked and blind bolted. Hes now retired and wont ever be driven again. Ironic really! :(

I've now got a youngster and we are currently doing traffic training, so far so good. I still think if you have a horse with an issue in traffic you have a responsibility to keep them off the roads.
 
huskydamage said:
This. Perhaps some people have more of a luxury of off road riding so its easy to say! I have two horses one that is v good on roads and one that's petrifyed of lorries/large vehicles. Both do loads of road riding. Its up to me to manage/control the other one when there's a large vehicle. All horses spook no one would ride anywhere if we all stopping road riding because of it.
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I had no off road riding where he was, none whatsoever. I did end up moving him 10miles away so I had access to quieter lane hacking. The new one is at a different yard again where I can work her in the fields, but no other off road riding really.
 
Habituation, desensitisation and making it all completely normal part of life is our responsibility as a rider towards meeting anything when we take our horses hacking. I'm lucky enough to keep my horses in a drove with a plant hire yard and farm fields so diggers, skip lorries, tractors, livestock trailers and haymaking equipment are a regular feature, all noisily passing the field on the potholed drove, plus motor crossing motorbikes. Alongside the field is a guided busway so they see double-decker and single-decker buses every day all day, and between field and busway is a 4m tarmac bridleway on which they see (and meet if I'm out hacking) pedestrians, dog walkers, runners, inline roller skaters, skateboarders, skiers (skis on wheels and ski poles), leisure and commuting cyclists, lycra cyclists, child trailers behind bikes, tandems, recumbent bicycles with flags, once a Human Powered Vehicle (looked like a torpedo on wheels), wheelchairs, invalid carriages, runners, and the occasional lost or shortcutting motocrosser, plus rabbits, muntjacs, escaped cattle and sheep, and swans that have landed on the tarmac thinking it's a lake. (Horse has been led in one hand with a swan tucked under other hand's armpit).
Maybe I should rent my field out for despooking purposes or offer accompanied hacks on the busway bridleway for people who'd like their horses to become accustomed to all the above stuff!!
 
Roads are horrible places to ride on now, and I agree that if you're going to do it, it's absolutely your responsibility to make sure your horse is as controlled and safe as possible. I think it's also about minimising risk as well though, my friend stupidly decided to hack out at rush hour, down a 60mph country road the other day that's used as a rat route. She had 2 near misses and was calling the drivers rotten. Couldn't see at all that she should have gone out before or after rush hour, and that she'd put herself and the pony in a bad situation before she'd even started.
 
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