Showjumping height measurements, cup or pole?

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

Went to a combined training event today, entred class billed max height 50cms. Walked course and thought these look huge. Measured said jumps with my new BS legal 60cm whip, fences just smaller than whip at top of pole. Spread on fences width of whip so 60cms, one fence over the whips length therefore over 60cms.

Questioned event secretary who refuses to measure and insists are 50cms. 2 other people also complain, still wont check heights. I withdraw in bits as although doesn't sound a lot for me and my pony it would have been setting us up to fail.

So where should the height for class be taken from, the cups or the height of pole on top of cups?

 

[shortstuff99]

I'm pretty sure it's from the top of the pole. Sorry to hear you had to withdraw, this can sometimes be the issue with unaffiliated.

 

[ycbm]

Top of the pole, no question. That's really bad!
.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Top of the pole, no question. That's really bad!
.

Absolutely this!
V sorry to read this ESW, how bloody annoying!

 

[dixie]

It’s top of the pole but they have leeway to increase it slightly. That’s really mean for a class that’s meant to be educational and fun.

 

[Grassy]

That’s really mean as actually the fences were 2 holes too big, which at whatever level is bigger than you entered, & especially as this level is meant to be encouraging, poor you! Years ago I entered an unaffiliated ODE at a well known event centre, it was miles away so paid for overnight stabling as well, I had entered 70cm, clearly shown on the schedule. Did dressage, went to walk the SJ & it was massive, I questioned them & they said it was 80cm, the oxers were 85cm as you are allowed 5cm tolerance. I was so upset & pointed out their mistake, they agreed that they had made a mistake as schedule said 70cm, but had started the class so it was too late! I gave it a go, was so nervous we got eliminated. The XC was too big as well, they said we could jump even though we were eliminated but it was all too big, such a waste of time & money. I emailed & complained & they sent a disinterested reply. My coach said it was like him entering a 1.20 & arriving to find it was 1.30!

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

It’s top of the pole but they have leeway to increase it slightly. That’s really mean for a class that’s meant to be educational and fun.

I was expecting maybe one fence to be a bit bigger, so maybe 55 and was prepared for that, there were also 4 spreads and the spreads were def 60cms so that felt very mean too

Thanks all, I feel a bit better now as was starting to think maybe it is from cups as they were so adamant it was 50 and refused to check ?

There is very little point complaining as it would be same person we all complained too that would be reading email just wanted to check where it should.have been measured too

 

[Buster2020]

It top of the pole but I have been to local jumping competitions and they would be different size jumps even though it meant be a 50 cm course . But sometimes you can trick youself into thinking you jumping high than your are. Which is quite embarrassing when you’re in a lesson .

 

[windand rain]

Spreads I can understand as as long as theyre no wider than a canter stride it makes little to no difference but 10cm height increase is a bit too much for the nervous who are looking for a confidence boost
ETA most of the unaffiliated workers we entered to practice for affiliated classes were at least 10 and sometimes 20 cms smaller than we wanted and needed so an 80cm wh course was often 60cm or less so very disappointing when the affiliated were all well up to height if not a little over

 

[blood_magik]

It top of the pole but I have been to local jumping competitions and they would be different size jumps even though it meant be a 50 cm course.

If run under BS rules you are allowed to go a maximum of 2 holes/10cm bigger, so the course will usually have fences at different heights. A 90 will go up to 1m, a 1m to 1.10 etc...

 

[Chippers1]

If run under BS rules you are allowed to go a maximum of 2 holes/10cm bigger, so the course will usually have fences at different heights. A 90 will go up to 1m, a 1m to 1.10 etc...

Why is this? I know it's allowed but I've never really understood why. It makes more sense to me to have a course at the advertised height!

I hate it when you get bigger jumps when you're not expecting them, if you're a bit nervous (like me) it can really throw you off. Makes me much worse as I'll be dreading it the whole round!

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

If run under BS rules you are allowed to go a maximum of 2 holes/10cm bigger, so the course will usually have fences at different heights. A 90 will go up to 1m, a 1m to 1.10 etc...

So all fences will be 10cm higher than advertised or just one or two?

 

[blood_magik]

Im not sure why, to be honest. I know BE is the opposite - BE80 has 80 as the max height but it’s the starting height for BS ?‍

Generally there will only be one or two fences at the max height and only towards the end of the course. It really depends on the course builder though - some like to build using the full range of heights and some like to keep all of the fences a similar height.

I have jumped a few courses where all of the fences were bloody massive, mind you... the first 1.15m I attempted the fences were all up around 1.20/1.25. It wasn’t a pleasant experience ?

 

[TheMule]

Im not sure why, to be honest. I know BE is the opposite - BE80 has 80 as the max height but it’s the starting height for BS ?‍

Generally there will only be one or two fences at the max height and only towards the end of the course. It really depends on the course builder though - some like to build using the full range of heights and some like to keep all of the fences a similar height.

I have jumped a few courses where all of the fences were bloody massive, mind you... the first 1.15m I attempted the fences were all up around 1.20/1.25. It wasn’t a pleasant experience ?

BE SJ are up to 5cm bigger than the class height but only on 2 fences. So a BE80 will have 2 fences at 85

 

[Tiddlypom]

If run under BS rules you are allowed to go a maximum of 2 holes/10cm bigger, so the course will usually have fences at different heights. A 90 will go up to 1m, a 1m to 1.10 etc...

BE SJ are up to 5cm bigger than the class height but only on 2 fences. So a BE80 will have 2 fences at 85

So why advertise the limit and then have jumps higher than that?

Stick to the advertised limit, fgs.

Bonkers.

 

[TheMule]

So why advertise the limit as 80cm? Bonkers.

It's the xc height. Having a couple of slightly bigger SJs is supposed to be a safety check to ensure the xc is well within capability

 

[suebou]

So why advertise the limit and then have jumps higher than that?

Stick to the advertised limit, fgs.

Bonkers.

There’s an element of preparing you for the jump off in the first round height.

 

[greenbean10]

So all fences will be 10cm higher than advertised or just one or two?

If you jump a BS 1m single phase (which is how most venues around me we would run their shows) there's actually not many jumps in it that are even 1m! First jump would normally be 95cm, 2,4,5,6 are normally 1m, then 7-12 are all 1.05 and often all 1.10!

I don't know about BE, but in BS you would go into a 90cm,1m,110 and 120 class knowing that at least half the course will be 1 or 2 holes bigger (depending on how nice the course builder is feeling!).

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

Okay thanks all, I was expecting a couple to maybe be bigger but even so having all the fences at 60cms or above for a class started 50cms MAX even under BS rules does seem rather mean and not usual?

 

[[59668]]

Yeah I thinks its harsh. I dont even like how BE 80 has some at 85. Why cant the height just be the height?!
Also it's a percentage difference. 10cm higher at 50cm to 60cm is a much bigger percentage of the original height than, say, 1.10 to 1.20. Which I think makes it harder!

 

[milliepops]

Yeah I thinks its harsh. I dont even like how BE 80 has some at 85. Why cant the height just be the height?!

as TM already explained, the BE height is for the XC. it's clearly in the rules that the SJ will be higher.

 

[Grassy]

If you jump a BS 1m single phase (which is how most venues around me we would run their shows) there's actually not many jumps in it that are even 1m! First jump would normally be 95cm, 2,4,5,6 are normally 1m, then 7-12 are all 1.05 and often all 1.10!

I don't know about BE, but in BS you would go into a 90cm,1m,110 and 120 class knowing that at least half the course will be 1 or 2 holes bigger (depending on how nice the course builder is feeling!).

Because 7-12 are the jump off, so 2 holea bigger

 

[Tiddlypom]

as TM already explained, the BE height is for the XC. it's clearly in the rules that the SJ will be higher.

Fine. Call it the BE 80 to 85 class, then .

It’s not the class rules that are the problem, it’s setting the class limit above what the class is named as. That is not logical.

 

[milliepops]

I don't get the issue with the BE classes, it's always been the same since they renamed them from intro/prenovice

 

[Tiddlypom]

But intro or prenovice didn’t give a height in the class title then play fast and loose with it .

But hey ho, horsey stuff is all bonkers, so why worry, eh.

 

[Michen]

Why is this? I know it's allowed but I've never really understood why. It makes more sense to me to have a course at the advertised height!

I hate it when you get bigger jumps when you're not expecting them, if you're a bit nervous (like me) it can really throw you off. Makes me much worse as I'll be dreading it the whole round!

Yes but in reality if you are jumping 80 you should be training at 90. Not training at and competing in the same level. I do exactly that- always sets me up to fail ?

 

[criso]

I think the issue is lack of consistency. It goes the other way too with courses clearly not up to height and no spreads. I went to one a while back intending to do the 60 and the 70. There was a delay with transport and not many entries so i missed the 60. Did the 70 which was very straightforward and looked small, i didn't walk it. Partly persuaded by my transporter did the 80cm and other than a stop where a filler had moved from one part to another, jumped round. However that didnt mean that we would have been OK at another venue with a more technical course where you might come off a corner with 3 strides to a jump built up to 90cm.

There has to be some flexibility as the nature of types of poles/planks and the holes will not be exact from one type of wing to the next mean you can never be guaranteed an exact height but there is something to be said for not deviating to much in either direction.

 

[greenbean10]

Whenever something is 5cm bigger in a jump off I always think about the number of times I have built jumps in the school and made them wonky and just not realised. That's how small 5cm is!

I don't think I'd even notice if a couple of jumps were 1 hole bigger than they were meant to be but having said that I do try my best not to look at the size of the jumps in the first place!

 

[greenbean10]

Yes but in reality if you are jumping 80 you should be training at 90. Not training at and competing in the same level. I do exactly that- always sets me up to fail ?

Exactly. I wouldn't enter a class that was at the very top limit of mine/horses comfort zone! If I entered a 90cm class and I had to withdraw because a couple of the fences were 1 or 2 holes bigger than 90cm then I wouldn't have been ready for a 90cm class in the first place.

I think it's common knowledge in BS and BE that you should expect to jump fences bigger than the class you have entered, but this isn't always the case in unaffiliated which is why I think people get unsettled and confused when they arrive - because sometimes unaffiliated run to BS rules and sometimes they don't!

But in BS that's just standard - you enter a 90cm class knowing that most of it won't be 90cm! It seems stupid but that's just how it works.

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

All good points and totally get for affiliated and bigger classes but in this case the difference between 50 cms which let's face it a horse can walk over and 60 cms for a young horse and nervous rider is 20% and it wasnt one or two fences but every fence I think is very mean and quite frankly has left me feeling like an utter failure and very upset.