Sitting trot ?

[Roxylola]

Charlie's getting out at elementary this year and I'm going to have to start getting to grips with sitting if we want to carry on progressing. I can sit to a trot. I can sit to a pretty springy warm blood trot even, but somehow Charlie is just so flipping active and pingy I end up bouncing about with my legs flapping and just feel generally untidy and horrid.

Saddle currently is a fairfax classic open seat dressage- not much in the way of blocks etc but I've never found they make a lot of difference anyway and I haven't got money for another saddle tbh. Although I'd probably find it if it really made a difference.

Usually once a horse is round and working through I find I can sit quite well. But somehow not with Charlie. On a positive note, it doesn't bother him at all if I'm rattling round on top. The flip side of that though is he won't slow down and sort of let me find my sit he just pings on relentlessly.

I can do a bit, and I keep doing a bit but I'm not sure the "bit" is getting any longer.
Are there any tips and tricks I'm missing?
I know to sit up not down, I know to keep weight down on my feet a little, to soften my hips and use my core etc etc. I know all the things, but somehow its just not happening for us. Do I just power through it without my stirrups? I do do a bit of no stirrups now and again but I've always gone with the if you're bouncing there's tension so slow down/walk til you're not then go again. Might powering through and just gritting my teeth get me through it? Is it something someone like Andy Thomas could help with? @daffy44 you might be able to answer that one?

I'm absolutely going to have to nail this as I will not let it stall us at elementary, although I console myself with the fact that there is less trot as we go up the levels ?

 

[teapot]

A combination of decent no stirrup work, physio, and trusting yourself/letting go.

In my experience too many people fixate on the wobbling around so much they tighten/tense, and you actually have to be able to use your hips/pelvis/spine as a shock absorber, which sometimes is a brain thing, not a body thing. Basically in other words, are you trying too hard to sit it?

 

[Roxylola]

A combination of decent no stirrup work, physio, and trusting yourself/letting go.

In my experience too many people fixate on the wobbling around so much they tighten/tense, and you actually have to be able to use your hips/pelvis/spine as a shock absorber, which sometimes is a brain thing, not a body thing. Basically in other words, are you trying too hard to sit it?

Im laughing, because in any other circumstances this is what I'd be saying to someone asking this question. I've ridden some really big moving horses and can ride advanced medium movements so I'm honestly better than I sound here ?
I do think a fair amount of my issue is jockey conformation though to be fair, I'm a petite 5'2 and Charlie is anything but petite bless him - not fat, just a proper cob, we're more like penelope and kipper than Charlotte and valegro that's for sure

 

[teapot]

Im laughing, because in any other circumstances this is what I'd be saying to someone asking this question. I've ridden some really big moving horses and can ride advanced medium movements so I'm honestly better than I sound here ?
I do think a fair amount of my issue is jockey conformation though to be fair, I'm a petite 5'2 and Charlie is anything but petite bless him - not fat, just a proper cob, we're more like penelope and kipper than Charlotte and valegro that's for sure

Penelope and Kipper hahahahha. If it's a confo issue definitely go down the physio route! It may well be something that never changes because of conformation though. In same way some people just cannot comfortably ride wide horses.

The other one I'd consider and I'm not a techy latest fashion type at all, consider which stirrups you use as some do help stabalise the leg a bit more these days...

 

[milliepops]

I've done a fair bit of grudging sitting trot in the past ? a combination of Andy T and equipilates makes it lots easier. Preferable to rising trot, even ? I find if I'm struggling because I'm just a bit tight one day, getting cracking with some sideways helps me to loosen up as much as the horse.
For me the pilates gives me stability, it might give you flexibility if horse is a bit wide for your conformation.

No stirrups is counterproductive for me, I'm hypermobile in my legs and they hang down like pokers causing immense pain, I need something to hang my feet on ?

 

[shortstuff99]

Is he also truly working over the back? Cobs (like the Spanish) can be good at taking it.

That was supposed to say faking it!

 

[Roxylola]

Is he also truly working over the back? Cobs (like the Spanish) can be good at taking it.

Yes


And also no

He is in so far as he's working from behind etc lifting up the withers, taking the neck forward, all the right things.
He's not "soft" in his back though, but I'm not truly sure if he ever will be in the way a blood horse can be. He's short and stocky with a big rib cage. I'm very aware that I'm asking a rugby player to do ballet and I have to accept to some extent that he (like me) is doing the best he can with the body he has. So yes, he could be better through his back in an ideal world. But we have to work with what we've got and suppleness will forever be an issue really

 

[milliepops]

Don't give up on that. My Welsh is a ballet dancing rugby player too and she can tighten to produce expression but she can also work really softly over her back, the difference is huge. It's difficult for her to be super soft in collection because she is so strong and stumpy but definitely worth pursuing.
Being genuinely in front of my leg helps too.

 

[Roxylola]

Oh I'll absolutely keeping chipping away at it. But I'm realistic in my expectations of him as well, I know it will take time and it may never be the same as a more conventional horse could produce. It is improving all the time though, a year ago I was pinged about all over in canter but that rarely happens now, we have an actual 3 time rhythm mostly now.
He could help me by being more in front of my leg and softer but it's up to me to lead the way and I simply have to be better to do that

 

[milliepops]

I meant that horse being in front of the leg helps with the sitting. Nothing worse than having to nag about being forward when you're trying to sit quietly ? if they really take you it makes a big difference.

 

[DressageCob]

Welcome to my world. I just embrace the bounce now

 

[rara007]

It’s also worth noting most the mediums the majority of the trot work is lateral work broken up with other bits rather than endless going large. I find I’m much better at sitting laterally between him being kept softer and my body having a clearer ‘job’. I’m exactly the same in that I can sit many horses. But not the one I need to ?

 

[Roxylola]

It’s also worth noting most the mediums the majority of the trot work is lateral work broken up with other bits rather than endless going large. I find I’m much better at sitting laterally between him being kept softer and my body having a clearer ‘job’. I’m exactly the same in that I can sit many horses. But not the one I need to ?

Its crossed my mind to look and see how much trot there is in one go in a medium ? hopefully another year and I'll be able to do enough at least.
I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or relieved that nobody has said I should definitely get a xxxxx saddle to help me out ?
I think mostly I needed to put less time and energy in to equine things at high school and more time and energy in to growing to be at least an average sized person but it's too late for that now and Pippa Funnell manages so I'll just have to get better

 

[ycbm]

Basically in other words, are you trying too hard to sit it

I find sometimes that it helps to think of standing around the horse rather than sitting on the trot. If you look at the really top class riders, they often look as if they are slightly stood rather than sat right down tight.

Here one of Charlotte showing exactly what I mean.

 

[Roxylola]

I knew it, I don't need sitting trot help, I need longer legs help. I get exactly what you mean @ycbm and I raise you this artist's impression of me and Charlie
I can't sit around him because Im pretty much doing splits
This is the best picture I can find that shows how his ribs are wide enough to push my calf away

 

[milliepops]

would now not be a helpful time then to remind OP of para riders with one or no legs

 

[Roxylola]

would now not be a helpful time then to remind OP of para riders with one or no legs

They don't ride turbocobs though ?
They also don't have to worry about their lower legs flapping around like a wet sail
Its a fair point though and it's only a little hurdle really in the overall scheme of things.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

As a fellow shorty who had to sit to a very round stocky, square, knee's up, lets trot like a jackhammer, horse, I feel your pain and honestly for me it was getting true suppleness and softness over the back. They can 'look' like they are working over the back but you can feel that they're not, once that penny dropped and I started really asking for that softness and engagement through her core the sitting came easier. Also teaching her that she can move her limbs forwards as well as up was a game changer .

But def move up to medium, lateral work is always easier to sit to as they have to me more engaged to do it .

 

[oldie48]

Stiff "old lady" suggestion is equipilates + working on getting horse softer in the back. I am physically less capable of sitting to the trot now but am much better at getting horse through and soft in the back with the result I can actually manage some reasonable sitting trot (but not for long!).

 

[Muddywellies]

For me personally, lots of core strengthening exercises and once a week without stirrups.

 

[abbijay]

Just one to add for consideration; do you allow your hips to move independently when trying to sit the trot? If you try to clamp both hips to move in sync it can be quite tough but I find allowing my hips to move independently front to back more like I was walking than riding can make it much more comfortable.
Imagine the way your feet move when you ride a bike... now aim for the same action with your hips in sitting trot (tiny circles happening at half turns apart from each other).
I do find bareback is wonderful for discovering how your horse needs you to move to come with him. Even if you have to start doing it on the lead rein, with a "jesus handle" in straight lines only.

 

[Roxylola]

Just one to add for consideration; do you allow your hips to move independently when trying to sit the trot? If you try to clamp both hips to move in sync it can be quite tough but I find allowing my hips to move independently front to back more like I was walking than riding can make it much more comfortable.
Imagine the way your feet move when you ride a bike... now aim for the same action with your hips in sitting trot (tiny circles happening at half turns apart from each other).
I do find bareback is wonderful for discovering how your horse needs you to move to come with him. Even if you have to start doing it on the lead rein, with a "jesus handle" in straight lines only.

I do try to allow them to move independently, emphasis on trying though. And I do a bit bareback from time to time when I'm schooling.
I'm coming to the conclusion that there isn't anything I'm missing really, I'm a small person on a chunky horse with a lovely active trot that I don't want to squash and sitting trot is going to be hard. I'll just have to get better and stronger

 

[abbijay]

If you want a small person on a chunky horse with a lovely active trot I can assure you it is possible...

It does take a lot of practice and training your muscles though!

 

[Noble]

All the above especially working over the back and an Andy T clinic is always fab, but I was told once, and this is going to sound odd but it helps honestly.....to think of riding/peddling a bike backwards.

 

[Reacher]

As I don’t have a school I try and practise out hacking - but doesn’t work well as he is giraffe-like looking at stuff which doesn’t help.

I was wondering if there are any good slo mo animations anywhere online which show how your hips should move as the horse moves? That would be helpful to me.

 

[Roxylola]

We did a fair bit tonight out hacking. Just kept pushing through the bad bits, slowing down softening as much as possible and going forward again. It's not pretty but it isn't awful, I think its just a thing we need to power through for us

 

[daffy44]

Hi Roxylola, sorry to be a bit late to the thread, yes, absolutely Andy would be able to help you with this, I do appreciate that a rider with shorter legs on a horse with a round barrel is not ideal, but its still possible, so I'm sure you'll be able to crack it.
You've had lots of brilliant advice, but I'll add my thoughts, just in case something helps..

Firstly, I know you feel like your legs are flapping about, but have you looked in the mirror? Are your legs actually flapping about, or does it just feel that way? I know when I teach, I always ask riders to look, and so often they are surprised that it looks so much better than it feels, its easy to underestimate how much movement is required to sit still on an active horse.

One of the biggest factors in ease of sitting is as others have said, having a horse that is truly though and swinging over the back, it makes a huge difference, as does a horse thats really taking you forwards.

Personally, I have found regular pilates and work with no stirrups have done the job for me, but I do recognise that no stirrups is not for everyone, if it makes you tense up and grip with your knees, then its not going to help, so I cant say if it will help you or not, just that its something to consider. Pilates will help everyone, so get practising with that.

The more technical descriptions are great, but I have never been able to work with them as I am a naturally feeling rather than thinking rider, basically my brain is rubbish. If the technical stuff works for you, fantastic, try it, if your more like me, just sit like a slob! I think we often try to hard to be still, when movement is required to look still, not stillness. I used to do trot sets on polo ponies who were very active, but also a lot more up and down than I am used to, and I was too lazy to do rising trot for ages, so I alternated sitting and rising. To sit to them I just let go and didnt try to do anything clever, just really relaxed, and didnt care what I looked like, and that worked well, I could sit to them pretty well.

I hope some of that helps, experiment and see what works best for you, but I think Andy and pilates are universally helpful.

 

[Roxylola]

Thanks @daffy44 you were worth waiting for ?
Am I over thinking it? Undoubtedly yes I always do. Im a weird mix of feel and technical, I have to feel it and learn by the seat of my pants but then I want to absolutely unpick it all and get the technical understanding.
I haven't got access to mirrors anywhere I regularly train, my owner videos though and it doesn't look as bad as feels to be fair, although I bail and go rising if it feels horrid.
I do think he'll have to loosen his back a bit more to get a good consistent sit. I've never known anything as unperturbed as he is. I can normally sort of soften their back with my sit if that makes sense so it gets better and softer as we go. Charlie is just like meh she's pinging up there again ?‍

 

[Cob Life]

Charlie's getting out at elementary this year and I'm going to have to start getting to grips with sitting if we want to carry on progressing. I can sit to a trot. I can sit to a pretty springy warm blood trot even, but somehow Charlie is just so flipping active and pingy I end up bouncing about with my legs flapping and just feel generally untidy and horrid.

Saddle currently is a fairfax classic open seat dressage- not much in the way of blocks etc but I've never found they make a lot of difference anyway and I haven't got money for another saddle tbh. Although I'd probably find it if it really made a difference.

Usually once a horse is round and working through I find I can sit quite well. But somehow not with Charlie. On a positive note, it doesn't bother him at all if I'm rattling round on top. The flip side of that though is he won't slow down and sort of let me find my sit he just pings on relentlessly.

I can do a bit, and I keep doing a bit but I'm not sure the "bit" is getting any longer.
Are there any tips and tricks I'm missing?
I know to sit up not down, I know to keep weight down on my feet a little, to soften my hips and use my core etc etc. I know all the things, but somehow its just not happening for us. Do I just power through it without my stirrups? I do do a bit of no stirrups now and again but I've always gone with the if you're bouncing there's tension so slow down/walk til you're not then go again. Might powering through and just gritting my teeth get me through it? Is it something someone like Andy Thomas could help with? @daffy44 you might be able to answer that one?

I'm absolutely going to have to nail this as I will not let it stall us at elementary, although I console myself with the fact that there is less trot as we go up the levels ?

I kind of just plowed through with the no stirrup and that worked quickly as if I did relax then I fell off the side! (Only did it once!)

 

[Bob notacob]

My problem has always been canter with Bob. Everyone who has ridden him has agreed that you cant sit to his canter . He just pings you about. Well today it came to a bare knuckle fight (bare hoof also) with Bob. I was so tired oif only doing Intro tests because of his lunatic canter antics that I entered him for a Novice test . If we are going to crash and burn ,lets do it in style and forget prelim . So today we did canter transitions (Or bob would have it, feck off sideways on the wrong leg ,go disunited and down into a knee crushing flat out trot. )Only this time I simply kept repeating the exercise, Any nonsense resulted in a halt rein back and return to the original scene of the crime. Ultimately he gave me glimpses of the canter he has hidden for so many years ,the one I can sit to and maybe hope for a grudging 5 from a half blind and very generous judge. But all in all a distinct step forwards.Not an answer to your problems OP but I just needed to share.