Skinny dog

cbmcts

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All advice welcome!

I rehomed a dog right at the beginning of lockdown. Well, he was meant to be a foster but you know how it goes...

Approx 5 yo entire Rottweiler who had been a yard dog often on a chain all his life. Spent 4 months in kennels a bit lean but eating well. Fine for the first month I had him. Unusual for a rottie but not a great eater, tended to pick at his Arden Grange (same as the rescue had him on). Really good boy, learnt not to eat the cat and after spending the first week cocking his leg on everything, was housetrained. Has to be watched if there is anything new in the house as he will consider a piddle on that. Fabulous temperament, very sweet but quite sensitive, not a dog you can shout at or he is devastated.

Since the week before Easter he has had terrible diarrhea (sp!) (brown water, no blood)and become more and more reluctant to eat. Starved him for a day, started him on pro-kolin (2 syringes worth) and chicken and rice. Will not touch the kibble, sometimes will eat chicken but quite often turn away from it. Chappie tinned is also a no, no. Forget rice, that's evil. He will sometimes eat Lidl pate dog in 300g tray but half the time he throws that up. Cat food eaten mostly but again, not reliably.

Took him to the vets the week after Easter and he had blood test and an examination. Both the vet and I expected a diagnosis of pancreatitis due to the gurgly belly and other symptoms but no, liver, kidney and pancreas all came back well within normal levels. At that point, no obvious mass or obstructions on examination. Also did a blood test for pholates which was fine. He had a week of antibiotics (metronidazole) which improved things while he was on them but his eating was even worse once they stopped. This week he had an xray to check for masses as sadly, his age and breed make him a likely candidate for tumours, luckily all clear. Ideally he would have had a scan but due to lockdown the visiting scanner/ specialist is not available for the foreseeable future. While he was sedated the vet checked his month and throat for anything odd but nothing obvious. In less than a month he has lost 20% of his body weight now 32kgs and looks like a bag of bones.

Unsurprisingly he is lethargic and often appears to want food but as soon as has it is almost scared of it if that makes sense? I need to get a faecal sample over 3 days to test for giardia but his is so watery that I haven't been able to do that yet. The diagnosis by elimination is IBS so he is now on steroids (37.5mgs per day) with omeprazole to protect his stomach. He also had a b12 injection which he'll have every week for 6 weeks. The vet wants him on 5x400g tins of Royal Canin hypoallergenic dog food per day but no chance of that as he will not even look at that. All he has eaten over the past two days is 3x300g Lidl trays (one made him sick) 4 raw eggs and about 100 mls of bone broth that I syringe into him.

Has anyone got any ideas? My dog is starving to death in front of me.
 
You could try Lily's kitchen recovery recipe. Our Westie suffers from colitis and this always helps clear her up a little.
You should avoid chicken and rice, neither are good for poorly stomachs.
 
Oh I am sorry that he isn't well. We feed our remaining Rotter on Butchers Tripe and put the pups on it when one decided that she couldn't eat kibble any more.
I am a bit confused about the lack of scan. When we took our 6 yr old Rotter, the vet scanned her there and then (ultrasound). She did say that they hadn't an expert there but 3 vets looked at the scan and decided that she had a mass, which when they operated they found was wrapped round her bowel. As you might already know, she was pts then.

One of the things that I found she would eat was scrambled egg (no milk)

If the worst comes to the worst, you have given him several weeks of a loving home and must remember that but I do hope that you find that he just is allergic to something. Our previous Rottweiler could only eat a salmon and potato kibble that a local feed merchant sold.
 
Do you always feed him in same room/same time/same bowls/are you always in the room with him? Just in case it is a superstitious behaviour rather than something medical.
Is his skin OK?
 
What a worrying time ?. I’ve no real advice as it’s hard to know what to do when there is no firm diagnosis so you don’t know what you’re dealing with.

Are Rotties a breed that suffer from Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency? Have the vets considered that? It can be treated by adding enzyme powder to your dog’s feed at every meal.

I do hope you can find some answers. It must be terribly distressing.
 
Will he eat scrambled eggs? I’d treat him for giardia ASAP. Surely it can’t harm?

I'll try scrambled eggs - I only discovered he ate eggs yesterday because I dropped one and he hoovered it up. The vet is reluctant to treat for giardia without a diagnosis as the drugs for that could make IBS worse apparently.

Do you always feed him in same room/same time/same bowls/are you always in the room with him? Just in case it is a superstitious behaviour rather than something medical.
Is his skin OK?

Nope, changed from a metal to a plastic bowl to a plate and from feeding inside and outside, standing with him and leaving him alone - every combination I could think of! He seems to prefer if I'm in the kitchen with him but doing something else. He will eat a bit more sometimes if I hand feed him.
 
Can you try scrambled eggs tomorrow, hand feed, add a little butter just to make it really attractive, but not loads in case he is funny with milk?

I’m hesitant to mention it, but I wonder if he’d be better on raw? Keener? I don’t think it’s the best time to introduce raw, but my lot are scavenging twats very happy on it. Maybe the smallest lump of decent mince? Just to see if he’ll eat it?
 
Oh I am sorry that he isn't well. We feed our remaining Rotter on Butchers Tripe and put the pups on it when one decided that she couldn't eat kibble any more.
I am a bit confused about the lack of scan. When we took our 6 yr old Rotter, the vet scanned her there and then (ultrasound). She did say that they hadn't an expert there but 3 vets looked at the scan and decided that she had a mass, which when they operated they found was wrapped round her bowel. As you might already know, she was pts then.

One of the things that I found she would eat was scrambled egg (no milk)

If the worst comes to the worst, you have given him several weeks of a loving home and must remember that but I do hope that you find that he just is allergic to something. Our previous Rottweiler could only eat a salmon and potato kibble that a local feed merchant sold.

The vets ideally want to MRI, they didn't mention an ultrasound. I know that the RVC (nearest MRI) are only seeing life and death emergencies at the moment but it's getting near to that point I fear so if nothing has improved by next week I'll ask for a referral. The vet did say that the xray showed a lot of gas and bone fragments? To the best of my knowledge, he's never had bones but I suppose he could have scavenged some...
I haven't tried Butchers Tripe - I was trying to avoid chopping and changing too much but it's easily available so an easy try. I do have some minced raw salmon and green beef tripe in the freezer so was considering that but the vet is very anti raw food at the moment but my previous dogs were raw fed and I was planning to raw feed him too. Just worried about making him even worse.

What a worrying time ?. I’ve no real advice as it’s hard to know what to do when there is no firm diagnosis so you don’t know what you’re dealing with.

Are Rotties a breed that suffer from Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency? Have the vets considered that? It can be treated by adding enzyme powder to your dog’s feed at every meal.

I do hope you can find some answers. It must be terribly distressing.

I've never heard of that - I'll ask the vet - thank you
 
This may be out of date information and is not very scientific as it was over 30 years ago.

I had a skinny dog who kept being sick. She would bring up undigested food hours after eating. The vet was puzzled and told me to feed tripe, potatoes and cauliflower! Eventually, for reasons I can’t remember, he removed the dog’s spleen and told me never to feed meat products. She was fed Vitalin Muesli and lived a healthy and energetic life for the full term of her breed.
 
RVC South Mimms? Push them, insist on an MRI, although I fear it’s about £2K and that was 10 years ago.

I have yet to meet a vet who thought raw feeding was a good idea, but if you have the tripe, try a really small amount. Tripe is one thing a dog either loves or hates, I find. If there are bits of cooked bone he’s scavenged, that might be the issue, possibly a piece is stuck.
 
It is South Mimms - they are my go to referral and an MRI is a fraction under 3k now!

The bone fragments puzzled me but the vet didn't make a big deal about them - I need to call him tomorrow about not being able to feed the hypoallergenic food and make sure that they don't order anymore for me. I'll ask then.
 
Well, green tripe was a goer, minced salmon was tasted but not much eaten for breakfast. Scrambled eggs are not popular - got the are you trying to poison me look after a very suspicious sniff...and a raw egg was refused :( Stolen wet cat food was a treat but it made him sick - mind you, if the cat had caught him stealing her food, his lifespan would have been seconds...

So he's had 2lbs of green tripe today - his stomach isn't too gurgly. The vet was off today but he's to call me tomorrow so we'll see where we go from there.

Thanks for all the suggestions, they are much appreciated.
 
Spoke to the vet today and went and picked up more meds - Cerenia to cut nausea and Periactin to stimulate his appetite. He's also agreed to sort out a referral on Monday but doesn't think the RVC will see him. They are effectively locked down so we will see who the vet recommends...Endoscope was mentioned and possibly biopsies. I asked about the bone fragments and the vet had assumed that he was already raw fed because I had mentioned trying it but it could be that he had scavenged something or calcium deposits. Either way, he didn't think it was significant. We also agreed that the hypoallergenic diet could be postponed, that whatever food I could get into him was good enough at this point!

Todays menu involved 1lb each of tripe and beef mince raw, about half a pound of cooked chicken and a raw egg. Not a lot really but eaten happily over 5 meals (the chicken was meant to be my lunch but he was begging so...) and after eating he was much happier with no salivating, sickness or grass eating. :)
 

Don't know if this will help, but when my German Shepherd had diarrhoea and vomiting after eating, after we got her from a rescue centre, the vet recommended natural low fat yogurt to put a lining on her stomach, along with lightly scrambled eggs. We still give her a couple of spoonfuls of natural yogurt and two lightly scrambled eggs (about 40 seconds in the microwave, so quite sloppy) for breakfast every morning. She is also fed hypo-allergenic duck and rice kibble (again, on the advice of the vet as being gentle on the stomach). She is 10 years old now. Hope you get this resolved soon. It's horrible not knowing what to do for the best.
 
What's EPI Spiritedly?
As Moobli said it's exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Basically the dog doesn't absorb or digest food correctly. They often have secondary problems with bowel infections as well.
The symptoms can include increased or loss of appetite, pale faeces, diarrhoea and/or vomiting, loss of weight, poor coat, a gurgling stomach, eating of own faeces, aggression and fear. The amount of symptoms a dog has can vary.
It can be diagnosed with a blood and stool test and treated with a pancreatic enzyme replacement and diet.
 
I'm glad he seems to be a bit better now, certainly he is eating better.

I should have said that 6 yr old Rotter's mass was actually a splenetic tumour which had spread. Rotts are very prone to them, I would want that ruled out pdq.
 
Sorry, disgusting question! Is his poo ok? I’d imagine not massively firm if he’s eating lots of tripe. In normal circumstances, I’d be chucking bones at him, but I think that would be a bad move right now.
 
As Moobli said it's exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Basically the dog doesn't absorb or digest food correctly. They often have secondary problems with bowel infections as well.
The symptoms can include increased or loss of appetite, pale faeces, diarrhoea and/or vomiting, loss of weight, poor coat, a gurgling stomach, eating of own faeces, aggression and fear. The amount of symptoms a dog has can vary.
It can be diagnosed with a blood and stool test and treated with a pancreatic enzyme replacement and diet.

Sorry, I didn't click that it was the same as what Moobli mentioned earlier! Yes he's had the blood test for that and his pancreas is working fine.

I'm glad he seems to be a bit better now, certainly he is eating better.

I should have said that 6 yr old Rotter's mass was actually a splenetic tumour which had spread. Rotts are very prone to them, I would want that ruled out pdq.

He's had an xray looking for masses but yes, I agree that further investigations are needed so have asked for a referral ASAP.

Sorry, disgusting question! Is his poo ok? I’d imagine not massively firm if he’s eating lots of tripe. In normal circumstances, I’d be chucking bones at him, but I think that would be a bad move right now.

Don't read if eating!

Since easter he has had brown water as poo, just gross. Today and yesterday it's been liquid but not water. He does seem to strain to go which is one of the reasons that I was worried about an obstruction/mass.
 
Try probiotics for dogs.
one of mine who had a gurgly stomach and weird stools was put on probiotic course for a couple of weeks and really helped sort him out.
 
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