Small animal vets and PTS

[ycbm]

A friend's experience has worried me with regard to the future of my cats. They had two very old cats, both rescues so exact age unknown but certainly beyond average life expectancy for their breed. Both cats began to mess the house in spite of multiple litter trays and had to be confined to a cage to stop them. They'd had a good life so they were taken to a vet which I also used in the past to ask for them to be PTS together. The vet refused to euthanase either of them. As a result they had to be moved to an outhouse, where they were provided with heat lamps, and over the course of the next few months first one, then the other, died of old age.

I'm pretty horrified by this, is it normal these days for a vet to refuse to PTS an obviously very old animal? My rule is if a cat loses the dignity of keeping its environment clean, it has a peaceful death. Am I going to have problems in future finding a vet who will agree to this?
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[nagblagger]

That's awful. This is the first i have heard of a vet refusing to PTS. My vet has always done whats best for the animal, i hope this isn't they way things are going.
Is it the same practice that you use or actually the same vet?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

That is awful and I’m glad its not something I’ve come across before. I lost Holly as we went into lockdown and took her to be seen on the Sunday as she had deteriorated very suddenly overnight. David my lovely vet just happened to be on duty that day and he agreed with me it was time and she was PTS. I was upset enough as it was and I can’t imagine what I would have been like had he refused.

 

[ycbm]

It was the same vet but I have moved house now so I hope mine will be different.
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[Gloi]

My vet didn't argue over me having my elderly cat to sleep rather than keeping her going on expensive pills.

 

[conniegirl]

I’d have put in a formal complaint if i were them, then taken the cats elsewhere to be PTS.

when we had Jezza PTS our vet could not have been any more accommodating. We booked him in for the monday morning as we thought we would have the weekend to spoil him rotten, he seemed happy enough. Unfortunately Friday afternoon i looked and him and decided we couldn’t go any further.
They made space for me on their Saturday surgery, they moved other appointments and opened slightly earlier.
theywere so accommodating of a dog that was terrified of vets and ensured we could stay with him as long as we wanted. We were told we could sort out the bill the following week and shown a different door we could leave by so that we didn’t have to walk back through the waiting room.
There was no ifs, buts or maybe’s. We said it was time so they did the deed

 

[nagblagger]

Last autumn my equine vet agreed that both my old boys should be PTS together, one was worse physically than the other but mentally the other one would not have coped. (29 and 27yrs). Don't know what i would have done without her support when making that decision.
I can't imagine how hard and upsetting that would have been, making the decision, taking 2 cats to be PTS, and then being refused.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

After I had a 'discussion' with a new keen young vet to my small animal practice who suggested various 'good things' they could offer for P dog at a consult just for annual jab last year, I then managed to speak to senior partner of the practice. She was horrified at the suggestions, including operations for luxating rear patellas (as is in both hind legs) for a very aged dog who is carefully pottering along at present.
Accordingly, she has now marked up P dogs notes to head up with 'no medical interventions to prolong life to be offered, conservative care or pts only'. Which is very much appreciated!

 

[Burnttoast]

When I was a teenager it proved impossible to get our then vet to pts our elderly cat who had failing kidneys. We'd just get offered another injection, 'now is not the time' etc. When she went off her legs I'd just got a horse on loan whose owner wanted me to use a particular (different) vet, so my parents took her to him and he put her to sleep that day. There are always other vets. I wouldn't use one again who couldn't take my word as the owner of an animal that the time was right.

 

[ycbm]

Thank goodness this guy sounds like a one off. He's neither young nor inexperienced and he owns the practice, I'm a bit shocked to say the least.

 

[Red-1]

I have heard of this before but have not personally experienced it. With Jay Man (horse) he was a wobbler but still enjoyed life. I had his record endorsed that, when I rung, they would come and PTS with no further questions asked. He did another 6 months after that, and when I called they were great and he was gone the same afternoon.

 

[AmyMay]

Thank goodness this guy sounds like a one off. He's neither young nor inexperienced and he owns the practice, I'm a bit shocked to say the least.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, if both cats looked well and he didn’t have a recent history on them - I can sort of understand his position.

Many years ago I had a similar situation, except the cat was 5 years old at the most. She did have a few trips to the vet prior to be euthanised because something was clearly wrong. When the time came my vet was completely sympathetic and pts without question.

 

[ycbm]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, if both cats looked well and he didn’t have a recent history on them - I can sort of understand his position.

They didn't, they looked what they were, old and at the end of their lives.

 

[Gloi]

The only time I think this could be justified if if the vet knew neither the cat or the owner and there was nothing wrong with it.
There could always be a chance there that it wasn't actually the person's cat, they just wanted rid of it . There are vindictive people about.

 

[SusieT]

I would say there is more to the story. It may be that your friend didn't tell you if advice was provided to assist in the problem.

Was there anything stopping them creating an inside space which could be easily cleaned? I wonder did they seek any cat behavioural help.

It would be unusual to take two cats at once to be euthanised which might suggest to some people that it was a convenience and lack of effort on the owners part- not necessarily saying it was as older animals obviously can lose their toilet training. However if someone came on and said they were taking multiple dogs to euthanised due to urinating in the house I might assume the owner not the dogs was the problem and more effort needed done. If its only one it is easier to believe that it is genuinely an old age issue not a situational issue. Sometimes elderly people forget or struggle to let cats access the same areas they previously did leading to cat having no option or being stressed and soiling. Most vets will euthanise on request, the occasional one will decline if they feel they are being euthansied for convenience .

That being said, the argument is there that once an owner has decided they no longer have the ability/willingness to care for an animal in its current state sending them away without euthanising might end up in a worse situation. However, as mentioned above I wonder if the vet did provide advice that you are not privy to. I have heard people on yards after the vet has left turn round and tell their mates the complete opposite to make themselves feel better about their decisions!

In answer to your question - I can't see there being an issue with you finding a vet to euthanise your pet cat if they are at the end of their life.

 

[ycbm]

The only time I think this could be justified if if the vet knew neither the cat or the owner and there was nothing wrong with it.
There could always be a chance there that it wasn't actually the person's cat, they just wanted rid of it . There are vindictive people about.

Agree, but the vet in this case knew both the cats and their owner. I'm relieved that it doesn't seem in any way normal.
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[ycbm]

I would say there is more to the story. It may be that your friend didn't tell you if advice was provided to assist in the problem.

Was there anything stopping them creating an inside space which could be easily cleaned? I wonder did they seek any cat behavioural help.

It would be unusual to take two cats at once to be euthanised which might suggest to some people that it was a convenience and lack of effort on the owners part- not necessarily saying it was as older animals obviously can lose their toilet training. However if someone came on and said they were taking multiple dogs to euthanised due to urinating in the house I might assume the owner not the dogs was the problem and more effort needed done. If its only one it is easier to believe that it is genuinely an old age issue not a situational issue. Sometimes elderly people forget or struggle to let cats access the same areas they previously did leading to cat having no option or being stressed and soiling. Most vets will euthanise on request, the occasional one will decline if they feel they are being euthansied for convenience .

That being said, the argument is there that once an owner has decided they no longer have the ability/willingness to care for an animal in its current state sending them away without euthanising might end up in a worse situation. However, as mentioned above I wonder if the vet did provide advice that you are not privy to. I have heard people on yards after the vet has left turn round and tell their mates the complete opposite to make themselves feel better about their decisions!

In answer to your question - I can't see there being an issue with you finding a vet to euthanise your pet cat if they are at the end of their life.

Would you be happy to keep two old cats in a big dog cage, Susie ? The alternative would have been abandon a whole room to allow them to defecate and urinate where they chose. Building them somewhere to live out their remaining months would seem like an unreasonable expense to me.

I know all parties involved in this episode well. I've known the owner 30 years and the cats for over 15 and they were both adults when adopted.
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[Crazy_cat_lady]

Not elderly, but my vet didn't question when we had the AC PTS at one year old.

We had been a couple of times due to him so frequently having diarrhoea, an eye becoming cloudy and his stomach feeling like a water balloon.

They suspected FIP which tallied with what I'd wondered from the internet. While they said it can never be 100% confirmed, AC was booked in for an MRI to see if this gave weight to the suspicion, however we'd decided if it was as confirmed as it could be we'd PTS as end stage FIP sounded awful and he was already losing his quality of life with the diarrhoea, not really eating or playing

AC didn't make it to the scan, as the afternoon of the Sunday of the week before he was due to go, he peed in a box. Thought it was odd as despite the diarrhoea, he'd always used the tray

Woke up at 2am in the morning to AC having violent liquid diarrhoea on the bedroom floor. That made my decision, as to me that was his dignity gone. Had to shut him in the kitchen overnight, as that could easily be cleaned. Came down and he was hunched up, had had more bloody diarrhoea. Called the vets the minute they were open and we went up that morning. The vet was lovely and very understanding, so hopefully your friend was just unlucky - I'd write to the practice if I were her and challenge them and ask why.

 

[windand rain]

Never had an issue with pts and just phoned for an appointment mind you the cat died in his sleep. Healthy one day gone the next

 

[Griffin]

Not elderly, but my vet didn't question when we had the AC PTS at one year old.

We had been a couple of times due to him so frequently having diarrhoea, an eye becoming cloudy and his stomach feeling like a water balloon.

They suspected FIP which tallied with what I'd wondered from the internet. While they said it can never be 100% confirmed, AC was booked in for an MRI to see if this gave weight to the suspicion, however we'd decided if it was as confirmed as it could be we'd PTS as end stage FIP sounded awful and he was already losing his quality of life with the diarrhoea, not really eating or playing

AC didn't make it to the scan, as the afternoon of the Sunday of the week before he was due to go, he peed in a box. Thought it was odd as despite the diarrhoea, he'd always used the tray

Woke up at 2am in the morning to AC having violent liquid diarrhoea on the bedroom floor. That made my decision, as to me that was his dignity gone. Had to shut him in the kitchen overnight, as that could easily be cleaned. Came down and he was hunched up, had had more bloody diarrhoea. Called the vets the minute they were open and we went up that morning. The vet was lovely and very understanding, so hopefully your friend was just unlucky - I'd write to the practice if I were her and challenge them and ask why.

I lost two cats to FIP, one was a confirmed case and I had PTS based on the test results. The other was suspected but given they were brothers and he had identical symptoms, I opted to PTS. It's a horrific disease and not enough is done in this country to highlight methods of prevention.

I haven't heard of a vet refusing to PTS an ill pet before, it seems unusual.

 

[Honey08]

We had a similar situation a decade ago. We bought the house next door from an old neighbour who was going into a home. He’d had trouble with the cat peeing in the house and thought about having it pts. When he went into the home his relatives wanted to rehome his cat, who was 16 and had always been in this house. We said we’d keep her. It was all ok initially and while the purchase went through, but once winter came we brought her into our side for warmth. She coped, but was clearly finding it tough living with our cats and dogs, and we knew the building works would stress her more when it started. She started peeing everywhere- kitchen work surfaces, on bookshelves (ruining books), on the dining room table. I remember posting about it on here, most people were understanding, some were harsh. When the vet came to do the horse’s injections we booked for her to be quietly pts at home (she’d never been to a vets in her life). We thought it better than confining her to a stable (as the critics suggested) when she’d always been a pampered house cat. Tbh winter can be harsh up here and I’d feel bad confining any time the stables.

 

[honetpot]

I feel sorry for my village vet, virtually the only time I see her is when something is being PTS, she has had to euthanise three in two years for me.
The last one was over a week ago, the dog was very unwell but after scanning, she wanted to do a chest X-ray, I had said I thought it was a secondary tumour from a lump on her chest, the dog was clearly shocked but calm and comfortable, so I told to put her to sleep, the vet never questioned it. She is perhaps a bit younger than me, and I think older vets are usually more realistic, and we both agreed it's quality, not quantity of life. The young vet who took the lump off the dog's chest was seemed very anxious, to the point I said who are you trying to reassure, because it's not me.
I would have asked to see another vet.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I lost two cats to FIP, one was a confirmed case and I had PTS based on the test results. The other was suspected but given they were brothers and he had identical symptoms, I opted to PTS. It's a horrific disease and not enough is done in this country to highlight methods of prevention.

I haven't heard of a vet refusing to PTS an ill pet before, it seems unusual.

It's an absolutely evil disease isn't it. I suspect he may have got it while at his "breeders" (read illicit litter as the mother apparently got out before she could be neutered, yet funnily after AC had gone a year later she had more kittens available and offered us a replacement as we had to call her to check name etc when claiming on insurance for purchase price). The place didn't look great when we turned up to view him, and in hindsight should have walked away.... However looking back at a photo of me holding him as a kitten, his claws were absolutely caked in muck. Despite being told he'd been flea treated, on getting him home I nit combed him, based on a previous experience my mum had with a moggy - he was absolutely riddled with fleas, I still have a picture of the bowl I put them in as I combed them out

When I took him to the vet about his eye, he said FIV can cause it and he could have picked it up as a kitten. Of course FIV lowers the immune system so could have made him more susceptible to the FIP mutation that causes it to be nasty. I'll also always wonder, as it was around the time of the Applaws dry food situation, so will always wonder if that "hastened" his departure, however I'm 99.9% sure he also had FIP.

Wish more could be done to create a vaccination against it

 

[quizzie]

It's an absolutely evil disease isn't it. I suspect he may have got it while at his "breeders" (read illicit litter as the mother apparently got out before she could be neutered, yet funnily after AC had gone a year later she had more kittens available and offered us a replacement as we had to call her to check name etc when claiming on insurance for purchase price). The place didn't look great when we turned up to view him, and in hindsight should have walked away.... However looking back at a photo of me holding him as a kitten, his claws were absolutely caked in muck. Despite being told he'd been flea treated, on getting him home I nit combed him, based on a previous experience my mum had with a moggy - he was absolutely riddled with fleas, I still have a picture of the bowl I put them in as I combed them out

When I took him to the vet about his eye, he said FIV can cause it and he could have picked it up as a kitten. Of course FIV lowers the immune system so could have made him more susceptible to the FIP mutation that causes it to be nasty. I'll also always wonder, as it was around the time of the Applaws dry food situation, so will always wonder if that "hastened" his departure, however I'm 99.9% sure he also had FIP.

Wish more could be done to create a vaccination against it

Unfortunately FIP is a coronavirus....and as the world now knows only too well, creating a vaccine against a coronavirus isn't easy!

 

[Supertrooper]

A friend's experience has worried me with regard to the future of my cats. They had two very old cats, both rescues so exact age unknown but certainly beyond average life expectancy for their breed. Both cats began to mess the house in spite of multiple litter trays and had to be confined to a cage to stop them. They'd had a good life so they were taken to a vet which I also used in the past to ask for them to be PTS together. The vet refused to euthanase either of them. As a result they had to be moved to an outhouse, where they were provided with heat lamps, and over the course of the next few months first one, then the other, died of old age.

I'm pretty horrified by this, is it normal these days for a vet to refuse to PTS an obviously very old animal? My rule is if a cat loses the dignity of keeping its environment clean, it has a peaceful death. Am I going to have problems in future finding a vet who will agree to this?
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Absolutely not the case at all with the huge number of SA vets I’ve worked with. They will always assess the animal and also what the owner wishes to do. They might advise on quality big life but the ultimate decision to euthanise is the owners

 

[ycbm]

Absolutely not the case at all with the huge number of SA vets I’ve worked with. They will always assess the animal and also what the owner wishes to do. They might advise on quality big life but the ultimate decision to euthanise is the owners

Excellent news, thanks.

 

[SusieT]

Would you be happy to keep two old cats in a big dog cage, Susie ? The alternative would have been abandon a whole room to allow them to defecate and urinate where they chose. Building them somewhere to live out their remaining months would seem like an unreasonable expense to me.

I know all parties involved in this episode well. I've known the owner 30 years and the cats for over 15 and they were both adults when adopted.
.

No - and that is not the vets responsibility. That is the owners responsibility. You don't say what investigations or assistance beyond euthanasia or locking them in a cage they sought. My point being that the vet may not have agreed with them that euthanasia was the only option and may have suggested they consider alternatives. Whether that is what they conveyed to friends is another question. Whether the vet misjudged their capability or willingness to deal with it is another question.

 

[meleeka]

I can’t imagine my vets refusing to pts an old animal, in fact I’m as certain as I can be without asking, that ‘old age’ and preventing suffering would be a good reason. That decision would always be the owners. It’s rarely the wrong decision, for the animal.

 

[FestiveG]

Any vet who refuses to euthanize an animal, should imo be prepared to take that animal on themselves.

 

[ycbm]

No - and that is not the vets responsibility. That is the owners responsibility. You don't say what investigations or assistance beyond euthanasia or locking them in a cage they sought. My point being that the vet may not have agreed with them that euthanasia was the only option and may have suggested they consider alternatives. Whether that is what they conveyed to friends is another question. Whether the vet misjudged their capability or willingness to deal with it is another question.

They were very old cats who had begun to behave entirely out of character. I see no reason to seek any other treatment than euthanasia.
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