Small animal vets and PTS

[KittenInTheTree]

When our now late elderly cat started toileting in odd places, we just cleaned it up and gave her extra cuddles. She lived another two years before she passed. Can't fathom locking an animal up or killing them over something like that.

 

[AmyMay]

Can't fathom locking an animal up or killing them over something like that.

It’s often a sign of medical or mental decline. I put a 5 year old cat down for that reason. She was clearly very sick (as confirmed by my vet).

But if someone is happy to live surrounded by cat p!££ and sh!t fine by me

 

[Boulty]

In that situation would expect most vets would do it, especially if a known client. Could understand that if a brand new client & cats looked in otherwise good condition / not like the age the owner claimed that a vet may find it suspicious & try to push more down the investigation route (although again with 2 obviously aged cats with likely declining cognitive function and possible other health issues developing then don't think most vets would question doing it)

As an aside as the topic of FIP has come up there isn't a prevention as such that I know of (other than being very wary about which breeders to purchase from and asking them very specific questions about if they have ever had any litters develop it and what hygiene precautions they have taken since then etc... unfortunately it does seem to become endemic in multi-cat environments sometimes, especially if there's any overcrowding & it does seem to be more common in pedigree cats, presumably as they are more likely to come from a breeder who is having multiple litters / a larger number of cats in one place) but there has been a treatment for it available in Europe for a little while & it is now available over here. It is sell a body part level of expensive but has a decent success rate if you can keep them comfortable & stable whilst waiting for it to work (comes as injection or tablets... if you can get away with going the tablet only route it makes it considerably more affordable but if they're really poorly it's recommended to start with injections first). Absolutely NOT suggesting that it's within reach of most people (because it's not unless you have a VERY good insurance policy / are prepared to go over your limit... I think the reason it costs so much is that it's a special import and you can, I think only get it from one specific company) and if they're really ill and unstable then it might not be the right thing anyway as it takes a bit of time to start doing its thing. Absolutely NOT trying to guilt trip anyone who's lost a cat to this in the past or recently, just saying there is an option emerging (& hopefully, eventually, the price may come down a bit to make it a more realistic option)

 

[PurBee]

I had to practically convince my vet to pts my ill cat that we had been treating for 18months previously with 2 different vets assistance (2 vets due to no progress so 2nd opinion needed) of an unknown cause nasal infection, which then progressed to brain infection and thus blindness, motor co-ordination/toileting decline.

The treatment being ineffective, the fact the cat was blinded, nasal discharge unsolved and had lost lots of weight was not enough for them, it was eventual motor and toileting decline that we insisted now was definitely the time as she was so unwell, and even then at the vets he put her on the floor to see if she could walk sensibly, despite all the other unresolved symptoms theyd been treating being glaringly obvious.
She was pts, thank god for her sake - but i was left wondering if she could have had 1 mini moment of awareness and walk straight for the vet, would she have been sent home with us, despite her awful condition with the other ongoing symptoms?

It taught me to not rely on vet assessment all the time, to really measure the quality of life accurately, and be more vocal describing daily life for the animal. They had convinced us for too long we had a good chance of resolving her infection, while all the time her quality of life was so laboured just due to severe breathing issues, before the consequential symptoms. It was a horrible time for her, and i regret not insisting strongly for pts sooner.

 

[Sandstone1]

Vets are certainly less inclined to advise pts these days. They will continue to offer treatment options beyond what is sometimes in the animals best interest. That said, I have not heard of a vet refusing to put down a very old or ill animal if thats what the owner wants.

 

[ycbm]

When our now late elderly cat started toileting in odd places, we just cleaned it up and gave her extra cuddles. She lived another two years before she passed. Can't fathom locking an animal up or killing them over something like that.

When cats that are already over the average life expectancy who have previously been clean start doing this it is, to me, a sign that they are ready to go as they have lost their awareness or their self control and certainly their dignity.

I personally also wouldn't share my home with it stinking of, and wondering when I am going to tread in, cat crap and cat piss.
.

 

[Ambers Echo]

My mum really struggles to make the call and I feel her last dog went on far too long. She was deaf, blind, could barely walk and messed in the house. But the vet never suggested it , just kept adding new drugs to the cocktail and assuring my mum she was ‘old but not in pain’. My mum is now widowed and in her 80s. Her current lab will be her last and is now 12. So it’s harder than ever to let go. She (dog) had a stroke last year. Has vestibular disease and arthritis in her hips. And has now had a field accident on a walk rupturing tendons in the shoulder requiring a surgical repair and months of rehab. It’s going to be a big op. Mum even asked ‘has her time come’ and vet said ‘I would have no hesitation operating’. So that’s what is happening. A pts decision of your beloved family member, and constant loyal companion, is so distressing. People often feel terrible guilt too. And really struggle to be objective. So I think that vets should take responsibility for quality of life discussion. And should be supportive of owners unless the pet is young, healthy or easily treatable without distress to the animal. If I come to that awful decision, my vet arguing with me would add so much to the trauma. It’s not fair.

 

[AmyMay]

It’s going to be a big op. Mum even asked ‘has her time come’ and vet said ‘I would have no hesitation operating’. So that’s what is happening. A pts decision of your beloved family member, and constant loyal companion, is so distressing.

I don’t envy vets in these situations. But I totally agree that just because you can, you shouldn’t necessarily do.

When Jack was diagnosed with cancer in his elbow the vet would have taken his leg off to buy us a few more months if we’d wanted that surgery. However they didn’t try and dissuade us from having him pts. I think the difference for many of us (on this board at least) is that it’s not life at any cost. And whilst we’re distraught at loosing any of our animals, their welfare comes first - and it’s not life at any cost.

 

[Mynstrel]

I'm pretty sure my vet would be horrified to know that one of her peers had refused to allow a loving end, together, for two elderly animals who were beginning to lose their dignity if that was the owners wish.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

The treatment being ineffective, the fact the cat was blinded, nasal discharge unsolved and had lost lots of weight was not enough for them,

This could have been a nasal tumour. Our last cat started with snuffles and going off her food. After a lot of treatment it became obvious that it was more than an infection and the vet suggested nasal tumour. We kept her going by syringe feeding her until she (cat) told us it was time. The tumour made one eye bulge, very unpleasant disease.

 

[Squeak]

I had this happen to me with our elderly dog. The vets had the full vet history, the dog was old, deaf, almost blind, losing control of her bladder and the final straw was that she was struggling to walk and losing weight. The vet said to us unless the dog lay on his table and was unable to move they wouldn't put her down. A couple of months later we took her to a different vets who said it should have been done a few months ago.

It was a horrible situation, the dog benefitted nothing from those last few miserable months, she was our beloved dog and we were made to feel like we were terrible for having considered putting her to sleep. Being cynical, the vet gained from us having to pay for very expensive medications, that did minimal for the poor dog.

 

[rara007]

Primary incontinence is rare in cats. UTIs are common, as is various other conditions some manageable easily, others not so.
I’m surprised your friend elected to shut them out over finding a second opinion. There’s probably 25 small animal practices within an hour of me here, we’ re very well served!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I had this happen to me with our elderly dog. The vets had the full vet history, the dog was old, deaf, almost blind, losing control of her bladder and the final straw was that she was struggling to walk and losing weight. The vet said to us unless the dog lay on his table and was unable to move they wouldn't put her down. A couple of months later we took her to a different vets who said it should have been done a few months ago.

It was a horrible situation, the dog benefitted nothing from those last few miserable months, she was our beloved dog and we were made to feel like we were terrible for having considered putting her to sleep. Being cynical, the vet gained from us having to pay for very expensive medications, that did minimal for the poor dog.

That's awful

 

[paddy555]

Primary incontinence is rare in cats. UTIs are common, as is various other conditions some manageable easily, others not so.
I’m surprised your friend elected to shut them out over finding a second opinion.

this.

My rule is if a cat loses the dignity of keeping its environment clean, it has a peaceful death.

my rule is that the vet examines it and let's me know why it has an incontinence or any other problem first and then what treatment is available and how effective it might be.

Without that info. any decision I make is simply for my convenience of not wanting to clear up.
Armed with all the info. and the vet's opinion of what is going to happen to the cat then I am in a position to make a decision.

 

[ycbm]

Primary incontinence is rare in cats. UTIs are common, as is various other conditions some manageable easily, others not so.
I’m surprised your friend elected to shut them out over finding a second opinion. There’s probably 25 small animal practices within an hour of me here, we’ re very well served!

Choosing to do a normal poo on the carpet instead of using a readily available litter tray which you've used for the last 15+ years doesn't sound like a treatable condition to me, it sounds, and looked like, dementia in very old cat. I really don't think it's fair to blame the owner for not wanting to hawk the cats around town until she found a vet who would PTS for her. They were given a warm and comfortable place where they could do as they pleased, just not inside the house.
.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

this.

My rule is if a cat loses the dignity of keeping its environment clean, it has a peaceful death.

my rule is that the vet examines it and let's me know why it has an incontinence or any other problem first and then what treatment is available and how effective it might be.

Without that info. any decision I make is simply for my convenience of not wanting to clear up.
Armed with all the info. and the vet's opinion of what is going to happen to the cat then I am in a position to make a decision.

Yes, I would have taken the cats in OP immediately for a 2nd opinion. And if necessary would have rung round as many local vets as it took to find one who would pts. Dementia sufferers, of whatever species do best in familiar surroundings, not being uprooted to somewhere easier to keep clean.

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

My old much loved dog had growths on her liver and at her age any dramatic interventions were to my mind inappropriate with her quality of life (she hated going in the car to visit the vets and the treatment was only palliative anyway) was so it was decided with my then current vet practice that when the supplements had no longer been helpful she would be pts at home. She very suddenly declined and I called the vet practice to request they came out as agreed to pts. They refused and demanded that I bring her in. So not happening. I found an amazing local ambulatory vet service who couldn't have been more helpful and empathetic. They turned up within an hour with a fully equipped vet ambulance, a vet and a vet nurse and couldn't have been more kind, understanding and practical. After taking her medical history and a brief but thorough veterinary exam she was pts at home with no drama or stress. I am so grateful to this practice who made the worst decision as easy as it could have been under the circumstances and would recommend them to anyone in the area they cover. Walkabout Vets Hampshire and Wiltshire. And they gave me a lovely orchid and card to remember her by when I picked up her ashes. More vet practices should be like this and the cost was less than my now no longer vet practice would have charged.

 

[Honey08]

I took our rabbit to the vets today, he’d been lame for a couple of weeks, I’d thought he was getting better, but realised he was just carrying his leg. They decided to X-ray, thought it might be a break and suggested a probable amputation if it was confirmed by X-ray. I left him with them, not sure whether I thought amputation was the right thing. However they rang me back and said it was worse than they thought, he had a dislocated hip and degeneration in the area, so suggested pts without putting him through any attempts at surgery etc. I was quite glad we were all on the same page.

 

[Aru]

Primary incontince is uncommon in cats. Utis,osteoarthritis, and kidney disease are all common and can cause toileting issues in elderly cats...there's obviously other potential causes as well but pain is a massive one to rule out.
Dementia is an uncommon cause of fecal incontinence in cats. More commonly a dog issue.

I feel sad for the cats but I would wonder what was discussed in the consultation..and why no second opinion was done before putting elderly animals outside. Theres plenty of other vets she could have taken them to.

I personally would have euthanised.... I don't have a problem with a day to early over a day to late...
but not without at least mentioning the multiple potentially treatable causes that could be causing the problem because many people arent aware you can give old cats a good qol with treatment and it's quite literally my job to offer the owner their options.
Old age isn't a disease it just predisposes you to more of them.

The owner gets to chose what they want to treat and what is within their means.
It's my job to offer their options.

But...vets are not hired assassins. We are people. We do have our own minds and conscience to live with after.
You cannot force someone to do something that will cause them moral distress simply because of their job title. The owner can always go elsewhere. The vet has to live with their conscience after. They absolutely can chose to say no.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

A couple of years ago now we needed to PTS our little terrier; at that time our vets were not offering home euthanasia's and we didn't want to take the little man in there. Wanted him PTS at home in his familiar surroundings. He'd been diagnosed with a spleen tumour and we had decided the best and kindest thing to do was to put him to sleep.

We used Cloud Nine vets; a lovely vet called Chris came on the day and was VERY kind and professional. Little man was given his preliminary sedation and then sat on my lap for the final injection. All very peaceful. Just perfect really. We'd decided to do the job in the hay barn where he'd always felt at home and where we knew he'd feel comfortable. Our other dog was there too; also "The Cat" who'd decided to join us.

All was done considerately and kindly and we couldn't have wished for better. I really would recommend Cloud Nine if anyone needs to PTS at home for a small animal. They were absolutely superb at a sad time. Just what was needed.