Snobbery in the horse world and happy hackers.

hayleyshep88 said:
I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. :D Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
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When I first read this I was quite offended as I came in to riding at the age of 26, I wanted to be a happy hacker and I am and always will be a happy hacker.
But, I don't know how to ride as would a rider who competes SJ/dressage etc and quite frankly have no interest in doing that but that doesn't mean we can't ride, we still have to have certain skills and the foundations are still the same no matter what you are doing with horses.
 
Why does everything have to be black and white? You're a happy hacker so you're hopeless at riding, but he's a showjumper so the sun shines out of his arse.

Some people's idea of a hack is an amble round the block, some people's idea of a schooling session is a trot round the school for 15 minutes, sawing their horse into an "outline". Some people head off over the hills for hours on end with a map, a compass and every intention of having a good gallop, jumping anything in their way. Some competition riders are hopeless thugs, pulling their horses about the ring. Some happy hackers are fluffy bunny middle aged women who think their obese cob will melt in the rain. Some aren't...

My favourite hacking buddy (the ultimate happy hacker) is an old school type who most of the competitive riders are scared witless of hacking with, because she knows how to have a good time and she's a speed demon. She rides a pony, because it makes mounting and getting under low branches easier - not because she couldn't handle a horse. Her pony was sold to her as her previous (competitive) owners couldn't handle her vertical rears - it was the happy hacker who sorted her out...

There's good and bad in every sport and every discipline - and there's a diversity of shades of grey too. I couldn't care less whether people want to go for a walk round the block, a mad gallop, ride xc or go in the school - they can make their own rules for themselves. I'm busy enough making up my rules for myself.

Personally, I compete and I happily hack - and I do TREC which is pretty well competitive happy hacking anyway :D
 
hayleyshep88 said:
I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. :D Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
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I don't compete, it doesn't interest me, but prehaps you would like to come for a hack with me, and then you will see that I can ride plenty good enough, and I bet my bottom dollar that you will be struggling with keeping your 'correct' position a long time before I do!!!!!

Hacking does not mean just being a passenger, it means being able to stay in tune with your horse over a meriad of different terrain, at all paces, and often for a long time. I used to regulary ride my horse for 25 miles, yet the people on my yard who did school work and competed were flagging after a couple of miles, and nervous of doing things like riding up steep banks or crossing rivers. Give them a gate, and they didn't know what to do!!! I could do any gate in less time than it took them to get off!!

So, my point being, that just because someone prefers the open country over mindless circles in a school (and my mare was never ridden in a school, she hated it) does not imply that they are of a lesser ability. Infact, I would argue that riding over different terrain at different paces actually proves more ability than just being fixed into position in the confines of a school. I know of people who compete in dressage who are scared of going for a gallop.
 
everyone is different - i hate beign "centre of attention" or "on show" so would never ever want to compete - however i have tremendous admiration for and love watching my friends who do
I only ever wanted to be a "happy hacker" however i wanted to ride my horse correctly and more imporatantly comfortably for him - I wanted to learn to ride "light" and correct so i put up with and endured lessons for 2 years on my daughters cob who she had got fed up with
Then id to deal with my confidence - i really loved this horse so to take him on roads took proper courage - and skill.
Skill you ask? Ok - ridng properly ie forward but constantly having to turn round to check traffic behind you - keep safe whilst thanking drivers ie waving and taking one hand off the rein - not easy when your nervous!
Im now finally what you may dismally call a happy hacker - i would say its taken a hell of a lot of money, sweat and teares to get us there
Weekly lessons in winter at 8pm often in rain on a cob who sensed my nerves and spooked for england even in the school (i was a novice)-
Now im hacking out with every horse at my yard going anywhere my fellow liveries go ie me and horse facing and dealing with new obstacles every ride.
Im now working to get us out alone - currently using hubby as a safety net running alongside us ready to grip the reins at any moment - not needed but my fears - always thinking what if????
Please dont knock happy hackers - bridle ways are now rubbish - non existetn or overgrown ie neglected, not all drivers considerate - we might not win any medals but its not all easy peasy - and yes we do try so hard to ride correctly - school while out in very difficult conditions.
 
dressagelove said:
I dont think I am the best at expressing myself :P I will try and improve this skill! back I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion :)
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I'm sorry you feel attacked. :(

However, seeing as you're looking to improve your communication skills, you might start by considering that telling people who don't compete, "don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc" could be seen as an attack on THEM. I expect if someone said that to you, you'd be very angry, and might retort as strongly as people have here!

:)
 
I would like to know who made up the term "happy hacker", being a grumpy old cow surely that makes me a "grumpy hacker". I do thank cars which slow down and keep my horse in control whilst on the roads even when I am in my grumpiest mood, however cars which speed past usually get the middle finger salute. When we are on a bridleway I slop along for all I am worth, infact if their was a competition for the sloppiest riding I would win.
Who cares wether you compete or not or even slop along or not, are,nt we all on the same side as horse owners ? I shall now use my favorite face :(:(:(
 
We don't really have happy hackers here (ireland). For one we don't have any bridleways (maybe 1, can't remember) and so most of our hacking tends to be either in national trust parks or on the road.
Most people here will compete in something, be it low level riding club or endurance/le trec and the ones that only hack are truely in the minority!

But I personally can't see the attraction of hacking only - but then I only have a few road hacks avaliable and have to box up to go further and by nature am a competitive person. I love hacking and do it for fittness or relaxation - but I couldn't purely hack! But maybe I could if we had bridleways upon bridleways and close proximity to the beach?

If you are a happy hacker, then why get upset if someone says you are "just" a happy hacker? Sometimes, a lot of reverse snobbery goes on as well!!

By the defination of HHO, happy hackers are tree hugging barefoot cob owners - and showjumpers are chavtastic blonde no hairnet fashion follower who like to beat their horse around the course. We all know this is a very sweeping comment and almost certainly not true!
don't forget, just cos someone has the opinion that dosen't agree with yours, dosen't mean it is wrong ;)
 
we have high level eventers but I don't care what people do with their horses as long as they look after them, we have friends who just hack on lovely hairy cobs, trotters, good all round PC ponies that wouldn't win a beauty competition but make brilliant children's ponies, hunt horses and so on, there is no need to condemn people because of what they do with their companion/friend, their welfare is more important.
 
dressagelove said:
I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. :D Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers
, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
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I have never heard such crap in all my life !
I have a friend who is a hapy hacker,she can get a tune out of anything you sit her on, works well schooling her horses and rides to a very high standard. Her pleasure is derived from the process of schooling and producing a good horse, not the glory of winning a rosette.
 
marydoll said:
I have never heard such crap in all my life !
I have a friend who is a hapy hacker,she can get a tune out of anything you sit her on, works well schooling her horses and rides to a very high standard. Her pleasure is derived from the process of schooling and producing a good horse, not the glory of winning a rosette.
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And AGAIN I am fed up of repeating myself. Read my later posts. I am not thick I recognise this.
 
trick123 said:
we have high level eventers but I don't care what people do with their horses as long as they look after them, we have friends who just hack on lovely hairy cobs, trotters, good all round PC ponies that wouldn't win a beauty competition but make brilliant children's ponies, hunt horses and so on, there is no need to condemn people because of what they do with their companion/friend, their welfare is more important.
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Totally agree with this - if your horse is happy and well cared for why does anyone else bother who does what????
You do what you want,what you like doing and if it doesnt hurt your horse, whose bussness is it??? - let others do what they like doing - end of
 
I had experienced a little snobbery in the past about me being an adult riding a pony (14.2hh) shock horror :eek: but not particularly about being a happy hacker I don't think. My yard is a lovely diverse one, some people just have the horse, almost as a pet which could be due to retirement or illness etc, some hack, and some compete to varying degrees.

Perhaps people did say things about me and my lovely late old girl, but I cant say I noticed or paid attention, I like to keep out of the thick of any gossip and derogatory stuff said about any liveries. I do not tend to notice these things as I just keep the right distance from people, whilst being perfectly friendly and chatty :D
 
I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit. We used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!
 
lionman said:
I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit. We used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!
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Exactly lionman, i event and hacking is whats helps get my girl fit.
I see some really good riders who hack, none of them have ever professed to know everything about riding.:D
 
marydoll said:
I did read your post it was a sweeping generalisation of many riders.
And still crap in imo
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Well I find YOU quite very rude. I would never tell anyone their opinions were crap, we are all entitled to them. Just because you aren't enlightened enough to appreciate anyone else's POV. I did not intend my statements to be sweeping, and I was merely pointing out a point which not many people were exploring. I stand by my statements. You can like it or lump it.
 
dressagelove said:
Well I find YOU quite very rude. I would never tell anyone their opinions were crap, we are all entitled to them. Just because you aren't enlightened enough to appreciate anyone else's POV. I did not intend my statements to be sweeping, and I was merely pointing out a point which not many people were exploring. I stand by my statements. You can like it or lump it.
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I'll lump it thanks :D your sweeping generalisation of hackers was imo rude and uncalled for, which is why i responded in the way i did.
 
Surely being good at hacking and having a good hacking horse, is a skill in itself? Thereby people who purely hack would be the best at this skill...:confused: How can it be that certain skill sets are frowned upon compared to others?

Someone who is good at hacking, in my book is JUST as impressive as someone good at showjumping/xc/polo etc etc

And even if you aren't good at hacking, merely enjoy it and like me are quite happy being mediocre at most things :D then don't let any one else make you feel less than them! YOU should be the last word on your own worth :)
 
lionman said:
I am of an age when hunters were hacked to get fit, Point-to-pointers were hacked to get fit, even my eventer was hacked to get fit. and it is still the best way :) When I was work riding the arab racehorses on the edge of Dartmoor we didn't have gallops, we worked them on the moor and they got fit without even knowing they were working. Anywhere I have ever been that required horses to be fit hacked them, even if it was only 2 or 3 miles to the gallopsWe used to do fast work on a good bit of ground, out HACKING. Why has hacking got such a bad name!!
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Right, just to prove that I really am old, and deserving of being a GOW, when I was a child it was still almost de rigeur to wear jodhs and a hacking jacket just to go out for a jolly in the forestry on a Sunday morning with the rest of the local kids. All very Thelwell-ish on our assorted shaggy natives come to think of it ;):D Hacking was all we had, PC rallies were where we had lessons, and then we hacked miles and miles to get to them.

Perhaps it is a sign of the times, if only limited safe hacking routes are available in some areas perhaps hacking isn't as popular. I wonder if the percentage of those that hack has any relation to their locale?
 
dressagelove said:
If Dragon Slayer and The Fuzzy Furry had bothered to read the rest of my posts,and SPYDA As well!!) they would have noticed that I had continued my point. I was NOT being sweeping. As already pointed out I found the original statement to be quite sweeping itself. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.
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Hang on a min - are you also 'Hayleyshep88' as well then on here, cos I was responding to her quoted post missus :confused:

(I havent read later posts on this thread, since I responded to Hayleyshep's post early this morning)
 
We have a girl at our yard, her 2 horses cost a bomb, ad did saddle trailer, her lessons etc.... She competes in dressage, SJ, Events etc and is a total snob, She schools her horses beautifully, yet CANNOT get either of them to leave yard to hack. Has been seen walking down road, getting on there and trying again, before letting horse turn for home and schooling or jump. So she is a better rider than myself of some of my friends yes?? (aimed at dressagelove)

Bearing in mind, my self and some of my friends, dont compete, but can break, hack and school young, old, green, spooky horses.....
 
Originally Posted by dressagelove
. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.


:eek: You didn't really say that did you? Talk about lighting the touch paper! That's like going on AL and saying arabs are ugly.:D


Every single horse in my signature is pretty everything proof, not a single one of them is a cob.
Shame, because I could sell them for $10,000 a piece if they were cobs ;)
 
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Enfys said:
Originally Posted by dressagelove
. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.


:eek: You didn't really say that did you? On purpose? :D:D
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My husband has just given an answer to the ''bombproof' cobs and tootle about' comment...

'Bollox'

:D
 
haha! Yes i have changed my name, not cos of this thread, I aint scared of u *puts up fists* lol, I just felt my name displayed too much of my personal info, but since u all remember it anyway... lols. I am thoroughly regretting getting involved in this discussion anyway. I am a very sensitive person (not looking for any sympathy) and its all got me a bit down. Once this thread dies down, I will be a lurker :)
 
*Ahem* If you are worried about personal info then I would not put your personal website in your sig... with even more personal info on it!

and quotes such as:

I love to take him hacking, going for a gallop up the fields, going to the beach, and generally having lots of fun!
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