Snobbery in the horse world and happy hackers.

[Spudlet]

OK, one more post on this subject - why would a hacker want to improve their riding? Well, for the same reason that I still take my dog training despite the fact that for the vast, vast majority of the time, he is a pet and nothing more - for the pleasure of doing a job right, for its own sake. He doesn't really need to be able to sit while half a dozen dummies get thrown out around him then retrieve the dummy on the left or the right on command, or to be able to do off-lead heelwork with three different variations on an about turn - but it's fun to do. You don't need to have something validated by others - improving your way of riding is worth doing for its own sake, surely? It will make you and your horse happier, what better reward is there than that?

 

[AshTay]

I'm with everyone who has said "each to their own". I don't care what other people do or what they think of me and what i choose to do with my horses.

But, quietly, I have the most respect for people who bring on their own horses and turn them into easy happy hacking horses or successful competition horses! That takes skill! I have least respect for people who buy readymade competition horses then look all proud and self satisfied when they bring home the rosettes. What's the point?!

 

[Spyda]

I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc

Glad I dont know you in real life. Up your own a*** IMO.

 

[dressagelove]

If Dragon Slayer and The Fuzzy Furry had bothered to read the rest of my posts,and SPYDA As well!!) they would have noticed that I had continued my point. I was NOT being sweeping. As already pointed out I found the original statement to be quite sweeping itself. There are two ends to every stick, and I was talking about the people who sit on 'bombproof' cobs and tootle about with no regard for making their horse work properly.

I agree actually in terms of it being a snobbery in terms of your horse you sit on. If a happy happy was tootling about on a nice big pristine TB, would they get looked down on for hacking? Perhaps not. Maybe we should link this back to that great thread 'Why do people want to own cobs?!' Don't gang up on me just cos I'm not siding with the majority?

 

[Spudlet]

Oooh, so it's all about the kind of horse... so it's people who ride cobs that are no good as riders....

Honey, you know if you keep digging yourself into that hole, you'll hit Australia eventually...

 

[dressagelove]

Glad I dont know you in real life. Up your own a*** IMO.

And there is NO need for such a comment. you DO NOT know me in real life an cannot make that judgment so keep it to yourself please

 

[dressagelove]

Oooh, so it's all about the kind of horse... so it's people who ride cobs that are no good as riders....

Honey, you know if you keep digging yourself into that hole, you'll hit Australia eventually...

Haha! good grief, you have to maintain a sense of humour to survive this forum dont u Again, people are reading between the lines and I did not say that!! I never said people who ride cobs arent as good riders! I have had some lovely cobs myself! Stop putting words in my mouth please

I was merely referring back to that other thread which may have a contribution to this discussion

 

[Spudlet]

Well, then why does it make a difference if the horse in question is a TB? I'm confused by your point.

If you expressed yourself with more clarity and precision, people would probably not read between the lines.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I see this from both pov. I was, in my younger days, a competitive rider, Show Jumper and did fairly well. Now I am a happy hacker, if I ride at all. I am still as able as I was, just a lot more fragile after a pretty horrid accident hunting.

I also own an ex-pro horse, he was a CDE horse for a famous driver and I own a hack who has only properly been backed for 2 years,although she is 15/16 (can't remember) she was a show horse and brood mare. So I have a foot in each camp as it were, and so do my horses.

So what I want to know is why would HH not ride correctly? Why would a comp rider definitely be riding correctly? I think there are good and bad comp riders, after all just because you can get a horse over a jump it doesn't make you a good rider, too often people buy school masters and think they are the bees knees at riding.We've all seen comp riders with every gadget under the sun stuck on their horse, still struggling to control it. So IMHO there are good and bad HH and good and bad comp riders, no one need look down on anyone.

FDC

 

[dressagelove]

I see this from both pov. I was, in my younger days, a competitive rider, Show Jumper and did fairly well. Now I am a happy hacker, if I ride at all. I am still as able as I was, just a lot more fragile after a pretty horrid accident hunting.

I also own an ex-pro horse, he was a CDE horse for a famous driver and I own a hack who has only properly been backed for 2 years,although she is 15/16 (can't remember) she was a show horse and brood mare. So I have a foot in each camp as it were, and so do my horses.

So what I want to know is why would HH not ride correctly? Why would a comp rider definitely be riding correctly? I think there are good and bad comp riders, after all just because you can get a horse over a jump it doesn't make you a good rider, too often people buy school masters and think they are the bees knees at riding.We've all seen comp riders with every gadget under the sun stuck on their horse, still struggling to control it. So IMHO there are good and bad HH and good and bad comp riders, no one need look down on anyone.

FDC

Yes, a good point. I dont think I am the best at expressing myself I will try and improve this skill! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion

 

[Hippona]

I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

Yes...I think you do
I have no real wish to compete- partly because I can't be arsed and partly because I would get nervous 'doing stuff' in front of people.

However - my current horse- well, to say he isn't a novice ride would be an understatement. In a year I've turned him for a nervous nappy wreck into a happy confident horse who will hack out alone, in company- will trot accross motorway bridges and gallop flat out - but only when asked- and come back to hand sweetly. He is schooling well and really I'm so proud of him.

Just cos I don't choose to compete doesn't mean I can't do it

Guess I'm not a show-off - just an 'ordinary' person enjoying her horse and getting a kick out of bringing him on......like many many others.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

Yes...I think you do
I have no real wish to compete- partly because I can't be arsed and partly because I would get nervous 'doing stuff' in front of people.

However - my current horse- well, to say he isn't a novice ride would be an understatement. In a year I've turned him for a nervous nappy wreck into a happy confident horse who will hack out alone, in company- will trot accross motorway bridges and gallop flat out - but only when asked- and come back to hand sweetly. He is schooling well and really I'm so proud of him.

Just cos I don't choose to compete doesn't mean I can't do it

Guess I'm not a show-off - just an 'ordinary' person enjoying her horse and getting a kick out of bringing him on......like many many others.

Sometimes I really wish we had a like button!

So much better put than my post!
FDC

 

[Goldenstar]

I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.

 

[touchstone]

I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.

A hacking horse can still be well trained and athletic

As for riders that are terrified, I suspect a lot of that stems from those new to horses who have a few lessons on a schoolmaster, manage well and then go and buy their own horse, not realising that there can be a vast difference in how horses 'go' when on their own, and yes, there are some riders like that, but plenty more who cope admirably and enjoy their horses. I've also seen plenty who've bought ready made horses for competition and then struggled with their own lack of ability - applies to both camps imho.

 

[Zimzim]

I dont think it matters what you do with your horse being honest, everyone likes to do different things whether thats competing or simply enjoying time with your horses. Everyones in the same boat at the end of the day, we all have horses and we all have to cater for their individual needs, the health and well being is far more important than what you do with them. At the end of the day if your happy and your horse is happy then I see no problem in what anyone does.

Theres snobbery in all professions, personnally I just take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[AshTay]

Yes, a good point. I dont think I am the best at expressing myself I will try and improve this skill! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion

Aaah- don't be like that! You're as entitled to your views as anyone else and if we all agreed it would be very dull on here. Ignore the tiny minority who make nasty comments and just respond to those that engage in healthy (and polite) debate!

 

[Enfys]

Is that Ari!? I loved that book, loved the sound of Ari too!

*Plans to reread book this evening to see if she is right*

Yep, that's my lovely Arian, a definite departure from my usual type though.

 

[Spudlet]

Yep, that's my lovely Arian. Sweet horse, she was on loan to the FM of our local pack for a year.

She's just like I imagined her to be Beautiful girly.

See, that book makes me want to give hunting a try (especially if I had an Arian or a Norman!)... then I go into the Hunting forum on here and am instantly put off again!

 

[AngieandBen]

I have no snobbery about happy hackers it's just not what I do I want to train my horses make into the most athletic well schooled horses I can trained to do lots of different things that's what I love. what I do have a Problem understanding is ... Let's call them unhappy hackers people who patently terrified of riding barely in control of their horses and lurching from disaster to disaster without being aware that you need to work hard learn to ride well and control a large animal with a mind of it's own.I just don't get them I hear their tales of woe and am always kind and nice but I just don't get them at all.

While I'm a very happy hacker, I do have to agree with you' I know quite a few people who are terrified of riding, whether in the school or out hacking and usually they wont accept advise because they know it all, now that makes me mad and sad; No one should be too proud to accept help, we've all been there.

 

[rhino]

I would call myself a happy hacker. Hacking makes me happy

Like others on here, endless schooling sessions bore me silly so I do all my schooling out hacking. Transitions between/within paces, all lateral work etc. are all included in my hacking. Also lots of jumping natural fences. I can happily be out and about for 3 hours plus

And I can take my happy hacker straight to a dressage test/ode and win...

I have never experienced any negative attitudes, in fact the yard I was on a few years ago I found the complete opposite, people were impressed that my horse has the attitude and training to hack quietly one day yet be competitive in a speed class the next.

 

[Kat]

It isn't about whether or not you compete or whether you do most of your riding in a school, on the roads or in open spaces though is it? It is about doing the best for your horse.

Some of the best riders don't compete, some don't hack either. I'd like to see anyone on this thread suggest that the riders at the spanish riding school are rubbish as a result though ;-)

What is important is doing your best for your horse, if you prefer to just hack that is fine, but hopefully for the horse's sake people try to ride correctly, with their horse in balance. Likewise if you compete that is fine, whether you are driven to win or to compete to better your own record but again the important thing is that it is done with the best interests of the horse at the centre. No one likes to see a horse treated as a machine and ridden hard for the sake of a win (rollkur anyone?).

I couldn't give a damn whether someone competes or not. The people who frustrate me are the people who believe they know everything they need to know and don't need to improve themselves with lessons/training/reading etc. I appreciate that not everyone can afford regular lessons, I haven't had one myself for six months but you can still put the effort in to learn and do the best for your horse.

I hate the attitude that, lessons/training/reading is irrelevant because "I only hack" you may only hack, but your horse may benefit from you sitting straight/not nagging with your leg/learning correct aids/riding into the bridle/understanding the bit you have put in its mouth etc. But I also hate that attitude from competitive riders, especially if they think that winning somehow excuses them from ever needing to learn anything. Heard Robert Smith boasting about never having had a lesson in his life, came across as being a right ignorant plonker, and set such a poor example.

Personally, I have been the person who only hacks (share horse, no school, couldn't afford lessons as I was a student), I have been the person who only has lessons (couldn't afford the time or money for my own), I have competed (only unaffiliated at dressage, sj, and a little bit of showing/wh), now I finally have my own horse and I am thoroughly enjoying hacking and schooling, bringing her on and developing her, I also can't wait to continue her education by taking her to fun rides, shows, competitions, hunts the works. But I know I will never know everything and will always need lessons/training/input from "eyes on the ground"/to read up on things/to seek advice. We will both, always be a work in progress.

I was always taught that you never stop learning with horses, and the day that you believe you know everything you need to know is the day you should give up horses.

Hope that doesn't sound too preachy, but the thread was frustrating the heck out of me!

 

[Hippona]

^^^^

What she said.

 

[stencilface]

Heard Robert Smith boasting about never having had a lesson in his life, came across as being a right ignorant plonker, and set such a poor example.

Funny, because I have the same opinion of the above, but for different reasons!

 

[Pedantic]

Nation of Arseriders

 

[catkin]

Hmm, well look at it from the horse's point of view:

Up early, ponced about with itchy plaits in, spend all day travelling in a lorry, stand around in the cold waiting to do 5 minutes of work with a nervous wreck of a human not helping, stand about again, travel home - then it's dark

or

up early, out and about in the fresh air, stop to talk to people who give you cuddles and tell you how wonderful you are, have a chance to check out all the goings on in the neighbourhood, perhaps a little detour to the village shop to buy an apple then home by 'coffee-time' and spend the rest of the day mooching about with your companion in the field

PS and the cost of an apple is less than entry fees so we can still afford lessons

 

[Enfys]

I dont think I am the best at expressing myself I will try and improve this skill! But for now Im going to go hide back in CR, I thought the NL was dead friendly but I have been upset by the amount of attacks I have had for daring to have a different opinion

No need to improve, or to go back to CR permanently either

Just be thankful that you didn't mention arabs

Wouldn't it be boring if we all did, or thought, the same thing? Posts like yours always get this response, different strokes and all that. If tootling around the lanes, or the arena, or jumping, or breeding, starting babies, or just being near a horse make riders/owners happy then that's just fine by me.

Me personally? I enjoy breeding a good horse and selling a well adjusted youngster to someone who enjoys taking the next step on the ladder more than I do.

 

[Super_Kat]

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!!
All these threads do is get filled with happy hackers spewing out 'how challenging and dangerous hacking is'. Right ho. Hacking is dangerous, mainly because people risk their horses by taking them on the bloody roads which are full of dog-toss drivers!
Who cares if people look down on you, I'm sure you look down on others for different reasons. Enjoy your horses, don't listen to other people putting you down, it's such a waste of energy......

 

[dressagelove]

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!!
All these threads do is get filled with happy hackers spewing out 'how challenging and dangerous hacking is'. Right ho. Hacking is dangerous, mainly because people risk their horses by taking them on the bloody roads which are full of dog-toss drivers!
Who cares if people look down on you, I'm sure you look down on others for different reasons. Enjoy your horses, don't listen to other people putting you down, it's such a waste of energy......

Like button. lol

 

[stencilface]

Well said super kat - I am used to people looking down on me (being a confessed showjumper ) but I don't care

 

[Enfys]

Well said super kat - I am used to people looking down on me (being a confessed showjumper ) but I don't care

Anyone who deliberately aims for an obstacle in their path has my admiration