SNP to hold balance of power and the future of Repeal

[Countryman]

JM, I think how quickly we can get repeal through depends on whether the SNP are going to vote on English Laws. Until now, that has been their principled position.
If they agree not to, then without them, the number of seats in the Commons goes down to 591, meaning a majority of just 296 will be needed for repeal - giving Cameron a majority of 35, which is much more do-able.

Of course if they decide they do wish to vote on solely English or English/Welsh laws, I'm sure one of the most pressing concerns for the government will be locking them out of this process, via some sort of new English Votes for English Laws reform.

 

[Penny Less]

I don't really understand this first past the post system, UKIP had 3million votes but only got one seat, SNP got far less according to reports but got 56 seats? How does it work ?

 

[Goldenstar]

JM, I think how quickly we can get repeal through depends on whether the SNP are going to vote on English Laws. Until now, that has been their principled position.
If they agree not to, then without them, the number of seats in the Commons goes down to 591, meaning a majority of just 296 will be needed for repeal - giving Cameron a majority of 35, which is much more do-able.

Of course if they decide they do wish to vote on solely English or English/Welsh laws, I'm sure one of the most pressing concerns for the government will be locking them out of this process, via some sort of new English Votes for English Laws reform.

I agree Cameron promised to bring forward a bill to deal with the west Lothian question within 100 days .
It needs to be in the top of his in tray .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I don't really understand this first past the post system, UKIP had 3million votes but only got one seat, SNP got far less according to reports but got 56 seats? How does it work ?

UKiP fielded 600 candidates UK wide, SNP fielded 59 candidates in Scotland. SNP's 'hit rate' was far higher.

 

[Alec Swan]

UKiP fielded 600 candidates UK wide, SNP fielded 59 candidates in Scotland. SNP's 'hit rate' was far higher.

The horses which have collapsed just past the Winning Post are aplenty. Just as UKIP have touched the collective nerve of we in the South, so the SNP have done the same.

The SNP have recognised the frustration of the Scots, but whether in the long term, Scotland will benefit, remains to be seen. What price freedom?

Alec.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

What price freedom?

what price the status quo?!

A yes vote to independence is not a done deal, another referendum is not yet on the table.At one point you seemed more at ease with the thought of Scottish Independence though, is it just the SNP you don't care for?

 

[Judgemental]

JM, I think how quickly we can get repeal through depends on whether the SNP are going to vote on English Laws. Until now, that has been their principled position.
If they agree not to, then without them, the number of seats in the Commons goes down to 591, meaning a majority of just 296 will be needed for repeal - giving Cameron a majority of 35, which is much more do-able.

Of course if they decide they do wish to vote on solely English or English/Welsh laws, I'm sure one of the most pressing concerns for the government will be locking them out of this process, via some sort of new English Votes for English Laws reform.

Countryman, I agree save for one point, the majority is in theory 34, because one Conservative member has to be taken out of the equation as The Speaker. In the alternative the overall majority is 11 not 12.

Bearing in mind all the promises the Prime Minister and others made during the election campaign, that the Hunting Act 2004 would be repealed. The fact just about every hunt in the country mobilised their supporters to canvas on behalf of the Conservatives.

It will be very interesting to see whether or not the issue of repealing the act will be included in The Queen's Speech.

 

[Lizzie66]

Countryman, I agree save for one point, the majority is in theory 34, because one Conservative member has to be taken out of the equation as The Speaker. In the alternative the overall majority is 11 not 12.

But then Sinn Fein don't take up their seats so Conservatives are now 330 and the rest are 315. So a majority of 15. In addition the DUP etc may well vote to repeal, which would therefore put their 8 seats with the Tories and make it 338 v 307.

However it is meant to be a free vote so votes may not go totally along party lines.

 

[KautoStar1]

Just as UKIP have touched the collective nerve of we in the South, so the SNP have done the same.

Alec.

Sorry Alec, ukip have not touched my nerve at all.

Anyway I don't see repeal happening anytime soon and nor should it IMO. Hunting is doing well enough under its current guise, although the law is an ass in this case I will admit. Be thankful we have a Tory government who will at the least leave the Act as it is. Labour would be looking to strengthen it & that would be a whole lot worse.

 

[Judgemental]

I see Caroline Dineage MP for Gosport and one of the 'Blue Foxes' and a significant opponent of hunting has been named a Justice Minister.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. .

Anyway I don't see repeal happening anytime soon and nor should it IMO. Hunting is doing well enough under its current guise, although the law is an ass in this case I will admit. Be thankful we have a Tory government who will at the least leave the Act as it is. Labour would be looking to strengthen it & that would be a whole lot worse.

Agreed.

I see Caroline Dineage MP for Gosport and one of the 'Blue Foxes' and a significant opponent of hunting has been named a Justice Minister.

I wouldn't worry too much. As with all Ministers, she'll prove to be ineffective and fail to justify her existence.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Agreed.



I wouldn't worry too much. As with all Ministers, she'll prove to be ineffective and fail to justify her existence.

Alec.

Alec long time since I have had the pleasure of responding to one of your posts.

Indeed but if and it's a big if, Repeal is included in The Queen's Speech, any Justice Minister is effectively muzzled under House of Commons Protocols.

Or to put it in layman's/women's (no inequality here) terms, they cannot have a conflict of interests between their personal aspirations and that of the government they serve.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. , they cannot have a conflict of interests between their personal aspirations and that of the government they serve.

Except when they're offered a 'Free Vote', perhaps. Even then, the vote will go in the favour of how they believe that they're perceived by their constituents, rather than their beliefs!

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Except when they're offered a 'Free Vote', perhaps. Even then, the vote will go in the favour of how they believe that they're perceived by their constituents, rather than their beliefs!

Alec.

Alec this is an absolutely fascinating point. Bearing in mind the Justice Minister will have to draft The Act of Repeal with the help of the Government Law Officers and in practice lay the bill before Parliament and the House of Lords, if it is passed by the Commons, they the Justice Minister has to personally sign the bill off to the Commons.

They can hardly vote against their own presentation irrespective or whether or not it is a Free Vote?

 

[Countryman]

The promotion of 3 MP's with anti hunt leanings (Caroline Dineage, Tracey Crouch, Dominic Raab) to junior ministries is a little worrying, but as Alex said, it is doubtful they will ever do much! In fact perhaps being ministers will persuade them to abstain in any free vote...

More hopefully though, the DEFRA team looks up to be a very solid one, despite no reappearance for Owen Paterson. Rory Stewart is an excellent man, who many feel has been wasted in DEFRA as he has the credentials to be an effective Foreign Secretary! However he also represents a very rural Cumbrian constituency and is firmly on the side of hunting - so perhaps it is a canny move. We will see!

 

[Judgemental]

The promotion of 3 MP's with anti hunt leanings (Caroline Dineage, Tracey Crouch, Dominic Raab) to junior ministries is a little worrying, but as Alex said, it is doubtful they will ever do much! In fact perhaps being ministers will persuade them to abstain in any free vote...

More hopefully though, the DEFRA team looks up to be a very solid one, despite no reappearance for Owen Paterson. Rory Stewart is an excellent man, who many feel has been wasted in DEFRA as he has the credentials to be an effective Foreign Secretary! However he also represents a very rural Cumbrian constituency and is firmly on the side of hunting - so perhaps it is a canny move. We will see!

Countryman, as I said to Alec, if you accept a ministerial position then you cannot vote against a Government Bill, even if it is a Free Vote.

I suppose they could abstain on the grounds of conflict of conscience but that is a good thing, because it takes them out of the frame in opposition.

Nevertheless it would make their acceptance of such a position unacceptable.

 

[Judgemental]

Not wishing to be a bearer of bad news or one of those infuriating "Told You So People".

Seemingly the SNP have had a meeting and George Robertson has said they will vote.

Will they all vote the same way. Remember some represent very Scottish rural seats.

But in the final analysis 'they hold the balance of power' in Westminster and the future of hunting in England and Wales.

 

[Judgemental]

I suppose the Government could 'shoot the Labour fox' by adjourning or laying over the debate on the grounds the SNP voting on English and Welsh matters are unacceptable.

 

[Lizzie66]

I suppose the Government could 'shoot the Labour fox' by adjourning or laying over the debate on the grounds the SNP voting on English and Welsh matters are unacceptable.

Use the time to debate the banning of Scottish MPs voting on laws that only affect England & Wales.

This current situation is now scary. The SNP are basically denying the English the rights that they have. In the grand scheme of things fox hunting is not likely to impact on that many people, but the fact that they are not allowing us to change our law to match theirs is downright wrong.

And purely because the UK Government won't deliver them everything they want. Yes the Scottish wanted a bigger say on how their country s run but equally they voted to stay in the UK.

The sooner the number of MPs is reduced and the boundaries reset the better .

The childish response to this would be to delay the handover of further powers to Scotland, resolve the West Lothian question and get rid of the Barnett formula. Say to the people of Scotland, very sorry but unfortunately the SNP can't be trusted to keep their word and deal fairly and we therefore reluctantly feel that to handover more power would be detrimental to the wellbeing of the UK

 

[ribbons]

We are heading for very dangerous times.
Whether you are pro hunting or anti is irrelevant here.
The Sturgeon woman has become power mad, she and her lot have openly admitted that the reason they will vote on this issue is to send a message to Cameron how slim his balance of power really is.
Whilst I realise fox hunting is of no real importance to any politician, it is hugely important to many rural communities including in scotland.
To openly admit to using this issue, (having already said it was of no interest to her) as a tool to poke Cameron, is not only insulting to the entire uk, it is unbelievably arrogant. In her head she holds all the cards and already rules the entire uk, very dangerous woman indeed.

Just to point out to anyone who is anti hunting, and applauds her move. Be very careful, she has no interest in hunting, one way or the other. The next issue she uses could well be one that is very dear to you. She won't care, providing it feeds her ego, she'll trample on anything in her way, she is so cocky, she admits to using this issue for her own ends on BBC news.

 

[{51248}]

Just announced.... the vote has been postponed due to the SNP position.

Agree with Ribbons, Sturgeon is just using the hunting vote for political power-play. Doubtless she looks good to those north of the border....

 

[Judgemental]

We are heading for very dangerous times.
Whether you are pro hunting or anti is irrelevant here.
The Sturgeon woman has become power mad, she and her lot have openly admitted that the reason they will vote on this issue is to send a message to Cameron how slim his balance of power really is.
Whilst I realise fox hunting is of no real importance to any politician, it is hugely important to many rural communities including in scotland.
To openly admit to using this issue, (having already said it was of no interest to her) as a tool to poke Cameron, is not only insulting to the entire uk, it is unbelievably arrogant. In her head she holds all the cards and already rules the entire uk, very dangerous woman indeed.

Just to point out to anyone who is anti hunting, and applauds her move. Be very careful, she has no interest in hunting, one way or the other. The next issue she uses could well be one that is very dear to you. She won't care, providing it feeds her ego, she'll trample on anything in her way, she is so cocky, she admits to using this issue for her own ends on BBC news.

As I said in my preceding post, "I suppose the Government could 'shoot the Labour fox' by adjourning or laying over the debate on the grounds the SNP voting on English and Welsh matters are unacceptable".

Plainly that is what has now happened. Your comments Ribbons are very correct.

The position of the SNP and Mrs Sturgeon is wholly unacceptable.

The Government have been extremely clever in drawing Mrs Sturgeons covers, she has been hollered as 'gone away' and they are now on the run with the Government Pack in full cry after them.

As we are out of season it is highly entertaining.

So for my next prediction. In the interim, the SNP will realise they have made a huge constitutional mistake and English Votes for English Laws will be fast tracked. Indeed it would not surprise me if Parliament has the Summer recess shortened and or Parliament could be recalled to deal with the issue. After all Mrs Sturgeon is on record when she appeared on Question Time during the Election Campaign, as saying the SNP would not involve themselves in a vote concerning the Hunting Act 2004.

The vote will probably came back to the H of C in October and it will be successful. By which time, hopefully, the Government will have organised a majority in the House of Lords

 

[Lizzie66]

The position of the SNP and Mrs Sturgeon is wholly unacceptable.

The Government have been extremely clever in drawing Mrs Sturgeons covers, she has been hollered as 'gone away' and they are now on the run with the Government Pack in full cry after them.

As we are out of season it is highly entertaining.

Agreed she is going to posture that she has won a victory over the Government, whereas I think she has actually just been undone by a very wily PM.

He now has evidence to back up the fact that the SNP can't be trusted and that an informal "gentlemans agreement" won't work with the Scottish MPs. This will ensure that English/Welsh votes for English/Welsh laws will become enshrined in Law and it will likely mean that Labour will not have the ability to rule England for a long time to come.

Doesn't matter that it was a law that very few had a real genuine interest in, it is the credibility of the SNP that has been damaged.

 

[Orangehorse]

Well - falls around laughing at the hypocrisy of the SNP. Will vote against legistlation that already exists in Scotland. Phew, that takes the biscuit and all that!

Mind, you Pro Hunters, one MP on the radio said this morning that he had received 600 letters against any repeal. Everyone had better get writing, all over again and deja vue.

 

[fburton]

Well - falls around laughing at the hypocrisy of the SNP. Will vote against legistlation that already exists in Scotland. Phew, that takes the biscuit and all that!

The SNP aren't interested in hunting either - it's a purely political ploy. Are there really that many principled MPs these days? (Were there ever??)

 

[Judgemental]

Agreed she is going to posture that she has won a victory over the Government, whereas I think she has actually just been undone by a very wily PM.

He now has evidence to back up the fact that the SNP can't be trusted and that an informal "gentlemans agreement" won't work with the Scottish MPs. This will ensure that English/Welsh votes for English/Welsh laws will become enshrined in Law and it will likely mean that Labour will not have the ability to rule England for a long time to come.

Doesn't matter that it was a law that very few had a real genuine interest in, it is the credibility of the SNP that has been damaged.

The other useful element of this matter is the flushing out of the Tory Traitors. Indeed it appears there are a number of ministers who are misguided.

They should be given a chance to recant their heresy or be cast out.

Coming as it does well before the opening meet, much can be done. In fact it could be, in the next round, full blown repeal might be achieved.

As for Mrs Sturgeon I have to admit I admired her and what she had achieved or not necessarily agreeing with her politics.

However she has welched on her word and from where I come from, that is a Cardinal Sin of the first magnitude.

David Cameron went to Burke House immediately after the election, not to be friendly but to weigh her up on her own turf and unless I am mistaken, he deduced she is, as they say in the West Country a 'wrong-un'. Not to be trusted.

If she as a horse she would be ridden with a double bridle, draw reins and sharp spurs. Preferably a nice pair of Chihuahua spurs with large rolls. That would teach her some manners.

 

[Merlin11]

Judgemental I don't always agree with your views but I like your comments on Ms Sturgeon. I am scottish and not a fan of her or the SNP.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I think she is very intelligent and more personable than her predecessor, but she has shown her naivety, the Westminster lot will plot and scheme, she needs to tread more carefully.

 

[Orangehorse]

Well the worst aspect of this is that Ms Sturgeon isn't even an elected Westminster MP.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Well the worst aspect of this is that Ms Sturgeon isn't even an elected Westminster MP.

I didn't elect Cameron and no one in Scotland voted Conservative!, or Labour!