So were the posters who backed Jamie Gray "Trolls" ?

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I'd love to know what you have to say MyJack/Patty, I'm not allowed to say anything more than I saw the horses when they were first removed. NOTHING on the earth can persuade me they were anything BUT neglected and that man deserves everything he gets and more.

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Please do enlighten me at what you saw when they were first removed?
 
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the EVIDENCE you claimed to have to prove their innocence...not that difficult if you have it surely

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Where you in court?

If so please tell me which day and who's evidence you heard?
 
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Cut to the chase and tell us the whole story. If not sod off and I for one will not be getting drawn into your games again

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I am telling the whole story as and when questions arise.
 
Don't get dragged in ES !!! It is not worth it,MJ/Patty just can't accept that the scum bags were found guilty,grasping in thin air to wind people up AGAIN ...MJ/Patty was not in court anymore than i was, its all cr@p,it never knew anything and i can't believe that you all are getting dragged into its games again,ignore,don't feed and hopefully it will go away ....
 
Post deleted... you're correct (posts below me)... no point in feeding the trolls. The grays have been found guilty, end of, who gives a toss what their supporters think. Not me.
 
Yes you are so right and i have been trying to say it a few times now...the fact is that the scum bags were found guilty,no use to get into what, how or why they did what they did, its in the past and we can try to figure out their mentality until we are blue in our faces..we will never be able to since they are all low life, so lets put our energy were its needed.
Justice for the horses, ponies and donkeys were served yesterday with the most fantastic verdict,so lets put the lid on it and move on !
 
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There are several questions there already, that you seem to be avoiding answering.

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I'm not avoiding answering any questions - I'm trying to get through each and every post to be fair.

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I don't understand your comment about there being no evidence.. the evidence were the dead and mistreated animals in their care, for which they have been found guilty of neglecting...

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Dead yes. Mistreated - not a shred of evidence was presented to the court showing Jamie Gray guilty of any such thing. Documentation, testimonies of RSPCA inspector Claire Ryder and others of the prosecution witnesses, and of the defense, told the court anything but Mistreatment/starvation/neglect, of those animals. Obiviousely those testimonies were not relied upon during the summing up.


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if there were no evidence none of us would know anything about any of this. Answer the questions if you're so adamant the family are innocent. I suggest to you that you can't, or you would have by now.

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Lets take an example of a poor horse which was removed from Jamie Grays farm.

Where is the evidence that Jamie Gray was responsible for causing the condition of that horse?

How long had that horse been in Jamie Grays care?

Where is the evidence that Jamie Gray was not trying to improve the condition of that horse?

The court heard every detail of every animal (dead or alive).
Oral testimonies and written documants were presented to the court. Along with health cerificates from Bob baskervilles practice.

Such evidence was given....

Age,
Sex,
Colour,
It's prior location,
Date it went to Spindles Farm,
Medical history while in the care of Jamie Gray,
Any madication any of the animals were being given at the time they were removed. etc...


And of the deceased:

All of the above, plus:
Dates they died,
where they died,
When were they going to be removed.
When dead pet was going to be buried.
 
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oh dear lord, MJ you never could answer a question before and it would appear you still cant.

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Please direct me to any questions I have not answered?

I am sorting my way through each post. Maybe the questions are not being answered as quick as you would like but I'm doing my best to reply to posts as quick as I can.
 
You should know by now ES whoever it is will only answer the questions they want to answer,they keep saying all through this that they know so much but cant say,and still were all waiting to see what they know.

They were his horses, his farm, his responsibility and he has now been found guilty.
 
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The issue here seems to be whether you believe 'neglect' is 'cruel'. It seems that Patty is refuting the Gray's are guilty of animal cruelty (possibly because he didn't physically beat them etc?)

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Oral testimonies and documented evidence presented to the court, along with inconsistancies and contradictions among the prosecution witness statements and oral testimonies, showed Jamie Gray neither (willingly or unwillingly) neglected his animals, nor was cruel to them. Sadly, such strong FACTUAL evidence may as well have been unseen and unheard, as it's plainly obvious that such strong irrefutable factual evidence was overlooked.

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However most people on here (myself included)strongly believe that keeping horses confined in an area without enough food and water is cruel, irrelevant of whether he was doing it deliberately or it was neglect.

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No animals were kept confined without enough food and water in any way, shape, or form.

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It is interesting that the Crown Prosecution Service aren't prosecuting this case (hence the RSPCA are) as this indicates the defence info the CPS reviewed means they don't think the case is in the public interest, or that there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction.

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I believe the CPS would have laughted the weak prosection evidence out on a pretrial hearing.

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Does anyone know if Mr Gray is pleading not guilty to neglect aswell as animal cruelty? The legal distinctions between neglect and cruelty are huge, even if the people on here don't think so.

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Mr Gray pled not guilty to all he was accused of - and rightly so.

Yesturday the Judge told the court that he would not be relying on any veterinary evidence from the defence expert vets, neither would he be relying on the Gray's testimonies in court because they gave no-comment police interviews in January 2008. Whilst giving evidence each defendent explained to the court their reason for giving a no-comment interview at that time - that reason being, they were instructed to do so by a solicitor.
 
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You should know by now ES whoever it is will only answer the questions they want to answer,they keep saying all through this that they know so much but cant say,and still were all waiting to see what they know.

They were his horses, his farm, his responsibility and he has now been found guilty.

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Yes and who really gives a cr@p what Patty/MJ thinks ??? The defense LOST LOST LOST LOST and rightly so enough evidence proves that....some people just got to move on even though they are not walking away with the feather in their cap because WE ARE
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Why did the Grays drag a horse by the neck behind a vehicle, which later died if they are not cruel people?

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And you heard this allegation where exactly?

You most certainly did not hear it in court. The prosecution put no such allegation to Mr Gray nor any member of his family.

Thats the media hype for you.
 
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You should know by now ES whoever it is will only answer the questions they want to answer,they keep saying all through this that they know so much but cant say,and still were all waiting to see what they know.

They were his horses, his farm, his responsibility and he has now been found guilty.

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Tania, if you bought a horse which was in poor condition and the RSPCA took that horse from you while you were trying to build him up.......would you believe the poor condition of that horse was caused by you?

What about if the RSPCA took perfectly healthy, vet checked, horses from you and accused you of starving them - would you just accept that accusation lying down?

What if your recently wormed horse which was eating and drinking well, suddenly died of a burden called cyathostomiasis, which wormers have little or no effect on, and can kill it's host within 12/24 hours without giving any signs that the animal has anything wrong with it at all? Would you tell yourself that you neglected and starved that animal?

Or what about if your horse suddenly died and the RSPCA made press releases telling the world that you starved your horse to death without a shred of evidence to support that accusation.... You see, the RSPCA gave live TV interviews outside of spindles Farm telling the world that Mr Gray had starved his animals to death - and they did so without a single lab test to support the allegations they were making..
 
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5315912.ece

Patty- why don't you start by disputing all the allegations contained within the above article? Feel free to threaten the times with libel allegations, I'm sure they'll be terrified of you!

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It's media - what do you expect!?

The Grays presented the court with photographs of the animals taken on the 9th of January 08.....

A member of the Gray family and RSPCA inspector Kirsty Hampton took the exact same photos standing side by side......funny how the RSPCA have only released photos of the dead animals and photos of the couple of horses that were actually poor.

Mr Gray, during cross examination, asked Mr Seabrook to produce the photographs of the so-called, 100+ emaciated animals. It couldnt be done.....However, copies of the photographs produced by the Grays were circulated around the court room - All parties of the defense and the prosecution were given a copy......So what stopped the RSPCA from releasing those to the press? It was the plain fact that those photographs totally contradict the picture the RSPCA have painted about the Gray family.
 
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patty, go away.
You are delusional and nobody is listening.

Jamie Gray is no stranger to the Court process, this isn't the only case he has been involved in.

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I'm far from delusional.

Jamie Gray was tried in his absence and without a defense lawyer. He was cleared of all charges upon his appeal.

If the public knew the truth about the RSPCA you'd be scared to death to own a goldfish.
 
I may not live in the UK, but I have followed the case and the court case via the interent and newspapers, and I have to say, I am absolutely disgusted.
Anyone that can deny the evidence from the photographs that were released, such as those from the farm, and those of animals who were rescued, needs to have their health assesed. Would you like a direct email address to my future sister in law, who works for the Horse Trust, and has worked with some of the rescued horses? Feel free, some of the things I have been told by her have made me physically sick.
Horses who were to weak to stand, could barely hold their own heads up, and would defecate in terror when people approached them? How do you explain these things away? Did the RSPCA starve these horses themselves to get the Grays sent to prison?
With carefull treatment - worming, dentistry, farriers - and nourishing food, as well as CARING, gentle handling, some of these animals have flourished, and are now confident and carefree animals that they should have been allowed to be.
 
Did the dead horses look healthy in those photographs?

And what a well reasoned argument against the valid points raised in court and reported by the times...I AM CONVINCED....oh, no, wait...that's not true.
You haven't actually addressed any of those points, just rambled on about some photographs.
 
Patty, I'm sorry that you think that Mr Gray has been unfairly represented in the courts. But comming on here and shouting about it is probably not going to help his case. Not one person on here (other than those connected to Mr Gray) think he's anything other than guilty of the things he was found guilty of.

Your efforts are going to be better served by helping his defence lawyers, rather than wasting your time on here. And as he has the right to lodge an appeal, you will have plenty of opportunity to do so.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be in any doubt that many of these animals have suffered terribly. However, as you give the impression of a personal connection - you presumably know better.

I'm really not sure that there is anything to be gained from debating this any further.
 
Well said !!!! Lid is now back on i think..enough is enough..We got to starve this troll to death now,it support that anyway so it should be no problem
 
Patty..you should be sectioned under the mental health act...what is going on in ur head to even try to defend this man.
 
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