Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
I just want the so called proof posted asap, so then everyone can stop repeating themselves......
So were the posters who backed Jamie Gray "Trolls" ?
- Thread starter Janetterose
- Start date
- Status
siennamum
Well-Known Member
I've wanted to avoid this thread, as it's just a troll fest, but Fenris there is a danger that someone might read some of your unremitting shi*e and think you are talking facts so just to clarify matters.
As a small point when talking about something you know nothing about - use the correct terminology, it's not 'little' redworm it's small redworm.
If JG lost a large number (10%) of his stock over a one week period over Xmas as we are apparently being led to believe (laughable) because of a spontaneous eruption of small redworm then it flies in the face of science:
"Small redworm larvae can develop into adults within a period of five weeks. In the autumn, however, their development is prolonged and they remain in cysts as tiny inhibited larvae (early L3 larvae) or as larger late 3rd and 4th stage larvae within the gut wall. These are broadly termed encysted larvae but in the late winter or spring, an unknown trigger causes these larvae to resume their development. The symptoms of simultaneous emergence of large numbers of 4th-stage larvae are colic, weight loss, diarrhoea and can cause devastating damage to the large intestine, sometimes resulting in death."
In other words Fenris, he would have lost these animals in March, NOT January. Although this is just pedantics really isn't it, they were starved - as is obvious from pictures which have been widely published, and he couldn't be bothered to either treat or feed them, and so they died of neglect. Why the simple explanation is so hard for you grasp is a mystery, though I suppose you must have a boring life and this is a bit of excitement for you
As a small point when talking about something you know nothing about - use the correct terminology, it's not 'little' redworm it's small redworm.
If JG lost a large number (10%) of his stock over a one week period over Xmas as we are apparently being led to believe (laughable) because of a spontaneous eruption of small redworm then it flies in the face of science:
"Small redworm larvae can develop into adults within a period of five weeks. In the autumn, however, their development is prolonged and they remain in cysts as tiny inhibited larvae (early L3 larvae) or as larger late 3rd and 4th stage larvae within the gut wall. These are broadly termed encysted larvae but in the late winter or spring, an unknown trigger causes these larvae to resume their development. The symptoms of simultaneous emergence of large numbers of 4th-stage larvae are colic, weight loss, diarrhoea and can cause devastating damage to the large intestine, sometimes resulting in death."
In other words Fenris, he would have lost these animals in March, NOT January. Although this is just pedantics really isn't it, they were starved - as is obvious from pictures which have been widely published, and he couldn't be bothered to either treat or feed them, and so they died of neglect. Why the simple explanation is so hard for you grasp is a mystery, though I suppose you must have a boring life and this is a bit of excitement for you
ForeverBroke_
Well-Known Member
If patty asks for evidence once more..
If she also ignores me once more...
Patty , you BANG ON AND ON about evidence, the RSPCA have produced ' evidence' of the photos that people can make their own opinion of.
The Grays/ You have contributed no evidence to proove them other wise.
So please , dont talk to us about evidence. Or infact, dont talk at all ...
If she also ignores me once more...
Patty , you BANG ON AND ON about evidence, the RSPCA have produced ' evidence' of the photos that people can make their own opinion of.
The Grays/ You have contributed no evidence to proove them other wise.
So please , dont talk to us about evidence. Or infact, dont talk at all ...
diamonddogs
Well-Known Member
I can just about accept there there may have been equines in the yard that WERE looked after and healthy, but this is a very smelly red herring. If only ONE horse was removed from the yard in that state, he's still as guilty as hell, so can we please move on from the posts about the condition of SOME of the animals. If there WERE animals there in good condition that's a good thing, but the majority of the animals we saw were either sick, ill, suffering, or just plain dead, and they're the ones that the Grays had to answer for and the ones we're discussing.
Or is it OK to abuse SOME of your animals as long as SOME are fine and healthy? Personally I don't give a stuff if Gray abused one horse or a thousand horses - he's an abuser and as such is guilty as hell and deserves everything he gets.
Something that's been puzzling me all along about this thread - how on earth can Patty get away with saying over and over again that witnesses are liars? There are laws against this you know - be very careful who you call a liar. And there seems to be a thinly veiled suggestion that the judge was no better than he should be either. If any of these people took umbrage over it, HHO would be held accountable for the words as owner of the forum.
And please stop boasting about all this information you claim to have. If you have it, let's see it. If you don't STFU about it.
I still can't for the life of me see what your agenda is here, but you have one. Oh yes.
Or is it OK to abuse SOME of your animals as long as SOME are fine and healthy? Personally I don't give a stuff if Gray abused one horse or a thousand horses - he's an abuser and as such is guilty as hell and deserves everything he gets.
Something that's been puzzling me all along about this thread - how on earth can Patty get away with saying over and over again that witnesses are liars? There are laws against this you know - be very careful who you call a liar. And there seems to be a thinly veiled suggestion that the judge was no better than he should be either. If any of these people took umbrage over it, HHO would be held accountable for the words as owner of the forum.
And please stop boasting about all this information you claim to have. If you have it, let's see it. If you don't STFU about it.
I still can't for the life of me see what your agenda is here, but you have one. Oh yes.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
I was quite prepared to wait until the trial was over for PW to come back here with the evidence she spent weeks going on and on about last year, the evidence that was so special and important in the Grays defence that she couldnt possibly tell us anything until it was all over.
Sadly I am growing older by the minute and am not prepared to spend any more of my life waiting.
21 pages later and we are still none the wiser.
Sadly I am growing older by the minute and am not prepared to spend any more of my life waiting.
21 pages later and we are still none the wiser.
Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And please stop boasting about all this information you claim to have. If you have it, let's see it. If you don't STFU about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said!
And please stop boasting about all this information you claim to have. If you have it, let's see it. If you don't STFU about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said!
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I was quite prepared to wait until the trial was over for PW to come back here with the evidence she spent weeks going on and on about last year, the evidence that was so special and important in the Grays defence that she couldnt possibly tell us anything until it was all over.
Sadly I am growing older by the minute and am not prepared to spend any more of my life waiting.
21 pages later and we are still none the wiser.
[/ QUOTE ]
i think you might mean MJ, Spans....
paddywack has always been in "guilty" camp...rightly, too
I was quite prepared to wait until the trial was over for PW to come back here with the evidence she spent weeks going on and on about last year, the evidence that was so special and important in the Grays defence that she couldnt possibly tell us anything until it was all over.
Sadly I am growing older by the minute and am not prepared to spend any more of my life waiting.
21 pages later and we are still none the wiser.
[/ QUOTE ]
i think you might mean MJ, Spans....
paddywack has always been in "guilty" camp...rightly, too
Fenris
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If JG lost a large number (10%) of his stock over a one week period over Xmas as we are apparently being led to believe (laughable) because of a spontaneous eruption of small redworm then it flies in the face of science:
[/ QUOTE ]
You are making the mistake of measuring the percentage of loss against the number of animals on the holding at the time.
Think instead of the total throughput of the yard.
[ QUOTE ]
in the late winter or spring, an unknown trigger causes these larvae to resume their development. The symptoms of simultaneous emergence of large numbers of 4th-stage larvae are colic, weight loss, diarrhoea and can cause devastating damage to the large intestine, sometimes resulting in death."
In other words Fenris, he would have lost these animals in March, NOT January. Although this is just pedantics really isn't it, they were starved - as is obvious from pictures which have been widely published, and he couldn't be bothered to either treat or feed them, and so they died of neglect. Why the simple explanation is so hard for you grasp is a mystery, though I suppose you must have a boring life and this is a bit of excitement for you
[/ QUOTE ]
You appear to have forgotten the effects that climate change is having both on the spread of diseases and on the timesof year they become prevalent.
In any event, little red worm has been know to erupt at any thime throughout the early autumn to early summer period.
Note that there is more to proving starvation than having a picture of a thin animal.
You have to prove that no underlying condition either caused or contributed to the lack of condition.
One way to do that is to show evidence of starvation in the bloodwork, something that cannot be disguised.
Perhaps you can explain why the RSPCA failed to do that?
If JG lost a large number (10%) of his stock over a one week period over Xmas as we are apparently being led to believe (laughable) because of a spontaneous eruption of small redworm then it flies in the face of science:
[/ QUOTE ]
You are making the mistake of measuring the percentage of loss against the number of animals on the holding at the time.
Think instead of the total throughput of the yard.
[ QUOTE ]
in the late winter or spring, an unknown trigger causes these larvae to resume their development. The symptoms of simultaneous emergence of large numbers of 4th-stage larvae are colic, weight loss, diarrhoea and can cause devastating damage to the large intestine, sometimes resulting in death."
In other words Fenris, he would have lost these animals in March, NOT January. Although this is just pedantics really isn't it, they were starved - as is obvious from pictures which have been widely published, and he couldn't be bothered to either treat or feed them, and so they died of neglect. Why the simple explanation is so hard for you grasp is a mystery, though I suppose you must have a boring life and this is a bit of excitement for you
[/ QUOTE ]
You appear to have forgotten the effects that climate change is having both on the spread of diseases and on the timesof year they become prevalent.
In any event, little red worm has been know to erupt at any thime throughout the early autumn to early summer period.
Note that there is more to proving starvation than having a picture of a thin animal.
You have to prove that no underlying condition either caused or contributed to the lack of condition.
One way to do that is to show evidence of starvation in the bloodwork, something that cannot be disguised.
Perhaps you can explain why the RSPCA failed to do that?
Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
And if there was ALL this evidence, why was it not made known to the Grays legal team in the first place?????
After all, you've had a good few months before the procescution started to make it available to them????
Pardon the pun but
Talk about shutting the stable door AFTER the horse has bolted!!!!
After all, you've had a good few months before the procescution started to make it available to them????
Pardon the pun but
Talk about shutting the stable door AFTER the horse has bolted!!!!
spaniel
Well-Known Member
i think you might mean MJ, Spans....
paddywack has always been in "guilty" camp...rightly, too
You are correct JM....senior moment ...... profound apols to PW
siennamum
Well-Known Member
Honestly Fenris, you just made that all up didn't you?
What utter nonsense, although I wonder whether you could suggest the JG not guilty due to Global Warming argument to Patty. She's desperate, it might help!
What utter nonsense, although I wonder whether you could suggest the JG not guilty due to Global Warming argument to Patty. She's desperate, it might help!
WoopsiiD
Well-Known Member
Just general questions for all posters...
Would you buy an emaciated pony from some one?
Or would you call the RSPCA?
If the RSPCA came to you re:the skeleton you just bought would you not tell them WHO YOU bought it from?
It all seems a bit to much 'It was like that when I got here,
honest'
If he did buy them like that why has he not just said where and who he got them from?
Did they all have passports? Surely previous owners could be contacted?
Would you buy an emaciated pony from some one?
Or would you call the RSPCA?
If the RSPCA came to you re:the skeleton you just bought would you not tell them WHO YOU bought it from?
It all seems a bit to much 'It was like that when I got here,
honest'
If he did buy them like that why has he not just said where and who he got them from?
Did they all have passports? Surely previous owners could be contacted?
diamonddogs
Well-Known Member
According to the article in H&H:
[ QUOTE ]
Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
[ QUOTE ]
Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
i think you might mean MJ, Spans....
paddywack has always been in "guilty" camp...rightly, too
You are correct JM....senior moment ...... profound apols to PW
[/ QUOTE ]
Phew thank you JM07...was trying to scratch my brain trying to remember what evidence i was supposed to know
i think you might mean MJ, Spans....
paddywack has always been in "guilty" camp...rightly, too
You are correct JM....senior moment ...... profound apols to PW
[/ QUOTE ]
Phew thank you JM07...was trying to scratch my brain trying to remember what evidence i was supposed to know
Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
According to the article in H&H:
[ QUOTE ]
Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank god we dont follow his example then!!!! Yes a real paragon of society! although which society I am not sure of!!!
According to the article in H&H:
[ QUOTE ]
Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank god we dont follow his example then!!!! Yes a real paragon of society! although which society I am not sure of!!!
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Patty has regularly blamed the lawyer for advising the Grays not to comment as a reason for their defense failing in court. You seem to be at odds with one another here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Patty has done no such thing - I have not BLAMED the Lawyer. I feel it was unreasonable to dismiss all the factual evidence, and oral testimonies of the defence just because they made no comment interviews. They didnt make no comment interviews because they had anything to hide - they made them because they were advised to. Such advice is given to people everyday by lawyers. This doe not mean those people are guilty.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems clear to me that the prosecution evidence was more than sufficient to convict the Grays and their failure to provide any evidence in their own defence under questioning is their own fault and can't be blamed on anyone other than themselves or their lawyer - if the latter is the case then they should be taking legal action against them. Maybe you should be encouraging this as you seem so friendly with them instead of banging the same old drum on here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Gray provided evidence which destroyed the the prosecutions claims. However all that FACTUAL evidence was dismissed, along with the their testimonies just because they didnt provide them in their interviews with the RSPCA.
When asked by the prosecution as to why they made no comment interviews they replied that their lawyer told them to. If listening to that advide makes them stupid then so be it -but it certainly does not make them guilty of the accusations against them.
The judge didnt find them guilty because they didnt produce the evidence to refute the accusations against them - they were found guilty because they made no comment interviews. So basically making a no comment interview is a crime now.
He didnt appear to have a problem with the evidence they produced - so if they had if commented in their interviews they would have got a not guilty.
Patty has regularly blamed the lawyer for advising the Grays not to comment as a reason for their defense failing in court. You seem to be at odds with one another here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Patty has done no such thing - I have not BLAMED the Lawyer. I feel it was unreasonable to dismiss all the factual evidence, and oral testimonies of the defence just because they made no comment interviews. They didnt make no comment interviews because they had anything to hide - they made them because they were advised to. Such advice is given to people everyday by lawyers. This doe not mean those people are guilty.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems clear to me that the prosecution evidence was more than sufficient to convict the Grays and their failure to provide any evidence in their own defence under questioning is their own fault and can't be blamed on anyone other than themselves or their lawyer - if the latter is the case then they should be taking legal action against them. Maybe you should be encouraging this as you seem so friendly with them instead of banging the same old drum on here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Gray provided evidence which destroyed the the prosecutions claims. However all that FACTUAL evidence was dismissed, along with the their testimonies just because they didnt provide them in their interviews with the RSPCA.
When asked by the prosecution as to why they made no comment interviews they replied that their lawyer told them to. If listening to that advide makes them stupid then so be it -but it certainly does not make them guilty of the accusations against them.
The judge didnt find them guilty because they didnt produce the evidence to refute the accusations against them - they were found guilty because they made no comment interviews. So basically making a no comment interview is a crime now.
He didnt appear to have a problem with the evidence they produced - so if they had if commented in their interviews they would have got a not guilty.
patty19
Well-Known Member
Sorry - Double post.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I just want the so called proof posted asap, so then everyone can stop repeating themselves......
[/ QUOTE ]
As I have said, I cant get them right now. I was expecting to recieve them a couple of days ago but I got a phone call telling me I could not have them just yet.
I did post the photos last year and did have them on my computer but it crashed and I'm still waiting for data to be transfered.
The posters who are still here who were here last year all saw them. INCLUDING PW.
I just want the so called proof posted asap, so then everyone can stop repeating themselves......
[/ QUOTE ]
As I have said, I cant get them right now. I was expecting to recieve them a couple of days ago but I got a phone call telling me I could not have them just yet.
I did post the photos last year and did have them on my computer but it crashed and I'm still waiting for data to be transfered.
The posters who are still here who were here last year all saw them. INCLUDING PW.
Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
Well the sooner we get the proof the better for your credibilty eh? And I was here last year, but like you had a name change (but not by registering another account!)
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If patty asks for evidence once more..
If she also ignores me once more...
Patty , you BANG ON AND ON about evidence, the RSPCA have produced ' evidence' of the photos that people can make their own opinion of.
The Grays/ You have contributed no evidence to proove them other wise.
So please , dont talk to us about evidence. Or infact, dont talk at all ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I am NOT ignoring ANYONE. I am working my way through the thread. YOU are no one special to whoms post I must jump to.
If I have missed any of your posts then I suggest you please direct me to them so I can answer them.
If patty asks for evidence once more..
If she also ignores me once more...
Patty , you BANG ON AND ON about evidence, the RSPCA have produced ' evidence' of the photos that people can make their own opinion of.
The Grays/ You have contributed no evidence to proove them other wise.
So please , dont talk to us about evidence. Or infact, dont talk at all ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I am NOT ignoring ANYONE. I am working my way through the thread. YOU are no one special to whoms post I must jump to.
If I have missed any of your posts then I suggest you please direct me to them so I can answer them.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I can just about accept there there may have been equines in the yard that WERE looked after and healthy, but this is a very smelly red herring. If only ONE horse was removed from the yard in that state, he's still as guilty as hell, so can we please move on from the posts about the condition of SOME of the animals.
[/ QUOTE ]
Guilty of what exactly?
[ QUOTE ]
If there WERE animals there in good condition that's a good thing, but the majority of the animals we saw were either sick, ill, suffering, or just plain dead, and they're the ones that the Grays had to answer for and the ones we're discussing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, discuss these animals BUT lets NOT forget what was said about ALL the animals. Apparently they were all starved and some were placed in quarentine at a secret location - as was the stetlands because it was feared that Mr Gray would go steal them back.
Lets talk about the donkey (Gladys I believe) who was apparently too weak to walk that she had to be carried onto the trailer. Lets talk about the donkey who was given a clean bill of health on the 5th of January but was dead on the 6th of January. Lets talk about the cribber (donkey) - lets see how fantastic she looks NOW she has been removed from the "evil" Mr Gray who apparently starved her.
Lets talk about the huge hay stack which had to be passed by the RSPCA when they entered the farm, while they claim there was NO food on site.
Lets talk about the health certificates issued by VET Katie Robinson who was at the farm on the 21st of December 07. Yet who later testified against Mr Gray. Lets talk about Bob Baskerville who has been his vet for 9 years and who has been paid £1000's, along with Katie Robinson, by Mr Gray for their services.
Yes, lets talk about all the dead animals that was not there 2 weeks prior.
[ QUOTE ]
Or is it OK to abuse SOME of your animals as long as SOME are fine and healthy? Personally I don't give a stuff if Gray abused one horse or a thousand horses - he's an abuser and as such is guilty as hell and deserves everything he gets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me what you believe he is guilty of?
[ QUOTE ]
Something that's been puzzling me all along about this thread - how on earth can Patty get away with saying over and over again that witnesses are liars?
[/ QUOTE ]
I witnesses it firsthand while sitting at the back of the court. They were torn to ribbons.
I can just about accept there there may have been equines in the yard that WERE looked after and healthy, but this is a very smelly red herring. If only ONE horse was removed from the yard in that state, he's still as guilty as hell, so can we please move on from the posts about the condition of SOME of the animals.
[/ QUOTE ]
Guilty of what exactly?
[ QUOTE ]
If there WERE animals there in good condition that's a good thing, but the majority of the animals we saw were either sick, ill, suffering, or just plain dead, and they're the ones that the Grays had to answer for and the ones we're discussing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, discuss these animals BUT lets NOT forget what was said about ALL the animals. Apparently they were all starved and some were placed in quarentine at a secret location - as was the stetlands because it was feared that Mr Gray would go steal them back.
Lets talk about the donkey (Gladys I believe) who was apparently too weak to walk that she had to be carried onto the trailer. Lets talk about the donkey who was given a clean bill of health on the 5th of January but was dead on the 6th of January. Lets talk about the cribber (donkey) - lets see how fantastic she looks NOW she has been removed from the "evil" Mr Gray who apparently starved her.
Lets talk about the huge hay stack which had to be passed by the RSPCA when they entered the farm, while they claim there was NO food on site.
Lets talk about the health certificates issued by VET Katie Robinson who was at the farm on the 21st of December 07. Yet who later testified against Mr Gray. Lets talk about Bob Baskerville who has been his vet for 9 years and who has been paid £1000's, along with Katie Robinson, by Mr Gray for their services.
Yes, lets talk about all the dead animals that was not there 2 weeks prior.
[ QUOTE ]
Or is it OK to abuse SOME of your animals as long as SOME are fine and healthy? Personally I don't give a stuff if Gray abused one horse or a thousand horses - he's an abuser and as such is guilty as hell and deserves everything he gets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me what you believe he is guilty of?
[ QUOTE ]
Something that's been puzzling me all along about this thread - how on earth can Patty get away with saying over and over again that witnesses are liars?
[/ QUOTE ]
I witnesses it firsthand while sitting at the back of the court. They were torn to ribbons.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry to sound so cynical but is there some kind of financial gain for you patty?
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely NOT!!!
The truth cannot be brought - any anyone who would try to finanically gain from it would have no morals what so ever.
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't get my head round the fact that some one who says she has nothing to do with the Grays, hasn't got her own horses and is from all accounts a stay at home mother would set out on such a quest surely at some cost to yourself?
[/ QUOTE ]
And I can truely understand why you find it so difficult to get your head around. I didnt set out to get such a grasp on the whole thing but somehow it just happened. As I found out more and more, and discovered my contacts could provide me with more information and facts than I appreciated them for, I was at a place I didnt realise I had reached until I sat back and looked. I am without a shadow of a doubt that Mr Gray is innocent. If I had the slightest inckling that Mr Gray could be guilty of any of the dreadful crimes he has been accused of, I would by no means defend him. NEVER!!!!
Animals deserve out love and respect.
I'm sorry to sound so cynical but is there some kind of financial gain for you patty?
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely NOT!!!
The truth cannot be brought - any anyone who would try to finanically gain from it would have no morals what so ever.
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't get my head round the fact that some one who says she has nothing to do with the Grays, hasn't got her own horses and is from all accounts a stay at home mother would set out on such a quest surely at some cost to yourself?
[/ QUOTE ]
And I can truely understand why you find it so difficult to get your head around. I didnt set out to get such a grasp on the whole thing but somehow it just happened. As I found out more and more, and discovered my contacts could provide me with more information and facts than I appreciated them for, I was at a place I didnt realise I had reached until I sat back and looked. I am without a shadow of a doubt that Mr Gray is innocent. If I had the slightest inckling that Mr Gray could be guilty of any of the dreadful crimes he has been accused of, I would by no means defend him. NEVER!!!!
Animals deserve out love and respect.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just general questions for all posters...
Would you buy an emaciated pony from some one?
Or would you call the RSPCA?
If the RSPCA came to you re:the skeleton you just bought would you not tell them WHO YOU bought it from?
It all seems a bit to much 'It was like that when I got here,
honest'
If he did buy them like that why has he not just said where and who he got them from?
Did they all have passports? Surely previous owners could be contacted?
[/ QUOTE ]
Both sides gave evidence and among that evidence there was only ONE question asked during the raid. Mr Gray was asked by an RSPCA inspector pointing at a dead horse how it had died - Mr Gray answered Worms.
No one asked Mr Gray anymore questions and Mr Gray was made to sit in his vehicle.
However, when Mr Gray was given the oppertunity during the trial to provide the court with dates, names, locations, etc as to where he brought each individual animals he provided the evidence in full with documented proof. He also told the court when asked, where and when he discovered each of the dead animals. Mr Gray produced every shred of evidence needed to prove his innocence. However, his one mistake was acting upon the advice of a Lawyer who told him and his family to make no comment in their interviews with the RSPCA. Which is obiviously a crime if we are to go by the reason soley given for the verdict.
I am by no means blaming the lawyer. Mr Gray and his family did not have to act upon the legal advice they were given but did so. This however does not mean they are guilty - The evidence Mr Gray produced in court proved as such.
Just general questions for all posters...
Would you buy an emaciated pony from some one?
Or would you call the RSPCA?
If the RSPCA came to you re:the skeleton you just bought would you not tell them WHO YOU bought it from?
It all seems a bit to much 'It was like that when I got here,
honest'
If he did buy them like that why has he not just said where and who he got them from?
Did they all have passports? Surely previous owners could be contacted?
[/ QUOTE ]
Both sides gave evidence and among that evidence there was only ONE question asked during the raid. Mr Gray was asked by an RSPCA inspector pointing at a dead horse how it had died - Mr Gray answered Worms.
No one asked Mr Gray anymore questions and Mr Gray was made to sit in his vehicle.
However, when Mr Gray was given the oppertunity during the trial to provide the court with dates, names, locations, etc as to where he brought each individual animals he provided the evidence in full with documented proof. He also told the court when asked, where and when he discovered each of the dead animals. Mr Gray produced every shred of evidence needed to prove his innocence. However, his one mistake was acting upon the advice of a Lawyer who told him and his family to make no comment in their interviews with the RSPCA. Which is obiviously a crime if we are to go by the reason soley given for the verdict.
I am by no means blaming the lawyer. Mr Gray and his family did not have to act upon the legal advice they were given but did so. This however does not mean they are guilty - The evidence Mr Gray produced in court proved as such.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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Honestly Fenris, you just made that all up didn't you?
What utter nonsense, although I wonder whether you could suggest the JG not guilty due to Global Warming argument to Patty. She's desperate , it might help!
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Am I? Please enlighten me.
Honestly Fenris, you just made that all up didn't you?
What utter nonsense, although I wonder whether you could suggest the JG not guilty due to Global Warming argument to Patty. She's desperate , it might help!
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Am I? Please enlighten me.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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According to the article in H&H:
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Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
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Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
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Oh my - someone cant count.
If this is the case then I'm not sure which passports he produced to the court that awarded Mr Gray his animals back. That said, I believe he told the court that he does not have passports for the young which were born on SF, or for some of the pets which he has owned for many years.
According to the article in H&H:
[ QUOTE ]
Buckinghamshire Trading Standards has said it has no plans to prosecute Gray for passport offences, despite only 63 passports being found for 143 horses.
Team leader David Pickering said the passport violations were "amost an irrelevance. To be honest, we never really thought about it," he told H&H
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Like Patty keeps saying, a paragon of society.
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Oh my - someone cant count.
If this is the case then I'm not sure which passports he produced to the court that awarded Mr Gray his animals back. That said, I believe he told the court that he does not have passports for the young which were born on SF, or for some of the pets which he has owned for many years.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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Well the sooner we get the proof the better for your credibilty eh? And I was here last year, but like you had a name change (but not by registering another account!)
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And you saw the photos I posted?
If you dont mind me asking - What was your name last year?
Well the sooner we get the proof the better for your credibilty eh? And I was here last year, but like you had a name change (but not by registering another account!)
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And you saw the photos I posted?
If you dont mind me asking - What was your name last year?
patty19
Well-Known Member
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Patty please can you answer this as i have asked a few times and still no answer.
Im correct in saying that before this came to light you had never set foot on SF?
You never knew the grays before this came to light?
If this is correct how can you have facts that none were starved and none neglected if you never been there?
It seems that you have taken the words of the grays and others involved with no actual facts when you didn know of the grays or SF before this came to light.
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Also what facts and photos have you that the bodies were dug up.
Please patty could you answer this as have asked quite a few times thank you.
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I have no photos of the animals being dug up. However, if they had not been dug up and the bones were just scattered all over the place like the RSPCA are saying, then surely RSPCA Ms Claire Ryder and Vet Katie Robinson would have done something about it when they were at the farm 2 weeks earlier.
If you care to look through the thread you'll see that I have answered these questions more than once. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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Patty please can you answer this as i have asked a few times and still no answer.
Im correct in saying that before this came to light you had never set foot on SF?
You never knew the grays before this came to light?
If this is correct how can you have facts that none were starved and none neglected if you never been there?
It seems that you have taken the words of the grays and others involved with no actual facts when you didn know of the grays or SF before this came to light.
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Also what facts and photos have you that the bodies were dug up.
Please patty could you answer this as have asked quite a few times thank you.
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I have no photos of the animals being dug up. However, if they had not been dug up and the bones were just scattered all over the place like the RSPCA are saying, then surely RSPCA Ms Claire Ryder and Vet Katie Robinson would have done something about it when they were at the farm 2 weeks earlier.
If you care to look through the thread you'll see that I have answered these questions more than once. I'm not going to repeat myself.
shokkyy
Active Member
Blimey, this is scarey. Let me see if I've got this straight.
So the RSPCA, Redwings, ILPH, Horse Trust and police force really had it in for Jamie Gray. Basically, they snuck in during the night, planted dead horses all over his farm, snuck in a few more with strangles, lice, overgrown feet, malnutrition and assorted gut, organ and skin issues. They then put the thumbscrews on his local vet and convinced him to go along with everything they said. And despite presenting irrefutable evidence of his innocence in court, Jamie Gray and family were found guilty. Oh, and horses with encysted larvae show absolutely no evidence of their condition until the moment they drop dead, which they do on a regular basis.
Have I got that right?
So the RSPCA, Redwings, ILPH, Horse Trust and police force really had it in for Jamie Gray. Basically, they snuck in during the night, planted dead horses all over his farm, snuck in a few more with strangles, lice, overgrown feet, malnutrition and assorted gut, organ and skin issues. They then put the thumbscrews on his local vet and convinced him to go along with everything they said. And despite presenting irrefutable evidence of his innocence in court, Jamie Gray and family were found guilty. Oh, and horses with encysted larvae show absolutely no evidence of their condition until the moment they drop dead, which they do on a regular basis.
Have I got that right?
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
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Blimey, this is scarey. Let me see if I've got this straight.
So the RSPCA, Redwings, ILPH, Horse Trust and police force really had it in for Jamie Gray. Basically, they snuck in during the night, planted dead horses all over his farm, snuck in a few more with strangles, lice, overgrown feet, malnutrition and assorted gut, organ and skin issues. They then put the thumbscrews on his local vet and convinced him to go along with everything they said. And despite presenting irrefutable evidence of his innocence in court, Jamie Gray and family were found guilty. Oh, and horses with encysted larvae show absolutely no evidence of their condition until the moment they drop dead, which they do on a regular basis.
Have I got that right?
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you summed it up perfectly ,maybe with your post Patty c/o can go back under her rock and stay there ???
Blimey, this is scarey. Let me see if I've got this straight.
So the RSPCA, Redwings, ILPH, Horse Trust and police force really had it in for Jamie Gray. Basically, they snuck in during the night, planted dead horses all over his farm, snuck in a few more with strangles, lice, overgrown feet, malnutrition and assorted gut, organ and skin issues. They then put the thumbscrews on his local vet and convinced him to go along with everything they said. And despite presenting irrefutable evidence of his innocence in court, Jamie Gray and family were found guilty. Oh, and horses with encysted larvae show absolutely no evidence of their condition until the moment they drop dead, which they do on a regular basis.
Have I got that right?
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you summed it up perfectly ,maybe with your post Patty c/o can go back under her rock and stay there ???
tania01
Well-Known Member
Thank you for answering me.
I do not seem to see where you said you have facts or seen photos of the grays before this came to light.
I also don't seem to see where you have facts of the grays lifestyle before this came to light.
You never knew them before this so you have no idea of what they did and how they lived or how he treated his horses before this came to light,you only have the rubbish that you been fed,as i also keep saying you never knew him before yet you have facts on his lifestyle before this
Also you keep saying you have facts that he never neglected or starved his horses HOW when you never knew of him.?
I do not seem to see where you said you have facts or seen photos of the grays before this came to light.
I also don't seem to see where you have facts of the grays lifestyle before this came to light.
You never knew them before this so you have no idea of what they did and how they lived or how he treated his horses before this came to light,you only have the rubbish that you been fed,as i also keep saying you never knew him before yet you have facts on his lifestyle before this
Also you keep saying you have facts that he never neglected or starved his horses HOW when you never knew of him.?
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