So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Ambers Echo]

I'm sure you are all thoroughly bored of my efforts to enter Stafford. (I know I am!)
But just to finish off the story... I got my validation. Hurrah. So on day 3 I was ready to enter.
I was then surprised to see it comes up with:

Entry Booking
£1.20
Entry PAYG Fee
£10.00
Entry Registration
£80.95
Entry Start Fee
£17.45

That's on top of the PAYG membership I bought for myself and the membership I bought for Lottie.
Total £140. I thought PAYG was meant to be cheaper?

Just like the multi-steps to entering, there is the 'multi-payments' for random things, What is 'PAYG entry fee'. Why an extra payment for that. Why is there another £17.45 start fee? I mean I know what it it but unaff don't charge it. So I'd forgotten about it.

You see £80 and think ok not bad. Then £30 PAYG for horse and rider. Ouch but ok £110 I can live with that. Suddenly it's £140 and it's just annoying.

Then the payment page said 'sorry page not found' when I hit PAY NOW so am still not entered. And actually am reconsidering..... After all that! But I am frustrated with the the lack of clarity. I don't even know whether if I enter a 2nd one it's another £140 or whether I don't have to pay that £30 again? If it's £140 every time I won't waste an entry on Stafford but save it for a really nice venue like Frickley. And also I should KNOW what it would cost next time and every time. It should be obvious.

The forced pause by the page crashing is making me think again about whether I really am going to pay £140. Probably but BE are not helping themselves in my view with how they go about the entry process. Main feedback, should anyone care, is 1) too complex, 2) too time consuming and therefore too many opportunities for epople to change their minds and 3) lack of clarity upfront about costs.

 

[ester]

It was my understanding you only pay the £30 once

 

[I'm Dun]

I'm sure you are all thoroughly bored of my efforts to enter Stafford. (I know I am!)
But just to finish off the story... I got my validation. Hurrah. So on day 3 I was ready to enter.
I was then surprised to see it comes up with:

Entry Booking
£1.20
Entry PAYG Fee
£10.00
Entry Registration
£80.95
Entry Start Fee
£17.45

That's on top of the PAYG membership I bought for myself and the membership I bought for Lottie.
Total £140. I thought PAYG was meant to be cheaper?

Just like the multi-steps to entering, there is the 'multi-payments' for random things, What is 'PAYG entry fee'. Why an extra payment for that. Why is there another £17.45 start fee? I mean I know what it it but unaff don't charge it. So I'd forgotten about it.

You see £80 and think ok not bad. Then £30 PAYG for horse and rider. Ouch but ok £110 I can live with that. Suddenly it's £140 and it's just annoying.

Then the payment page said 'sorry page not found' when I hit PAY NOW so am still not entered. And actually am reconsidering..... After all that! But I am frustrated with the the lack of clarity. I don't even know whether if I enter a 2nd one it's another £140 or whether I don't have to pay that £30 again? If it's £140 every time I won't waste an entry on Stafford but save it for a really nice venue like Frickley. And also I should KNOW what it would cost next time and every time. It should be obvious.

The forced pause by the page crashing is making me think again about whether I really am going to pay £140. Probably but BE are not helping themselves in my view with how they go about the entry process. Main feedback, should anyone care, is 1) too complex, 2) too time consuming and therefore too many opportunities for epople to change their minds and 3) lack of clarity upfront about costs.

I'd have not entered on principle I think. Its really naughty of them to be advertising this as cheaper and showing one price when the reality is it's actually much more. £80 seems a reasonable price on par with unaffiliated, but to jump to £140 is a 75% increase if my rusty maths is correct!

 

[Ambers Echo]

To be fair to them they dropped abandonment insurance which was yet another extra. And got criticised for that. But of all the 'extras' I'd have dropped that LAST! But actually I would just have a single entry fee that covers it all. At least you know where you are, then.

 

[Squeak]

I thought the entry booking fee was really naughty when I saw it. I understand having a booking fee or equivalent for sites like horse monkey where the venue is utilising an entry system but when BE have built their own at huge expense then surely there shouldn't be a cost of using it when entering?!

Is the expectation nowdays to pay the start fee at the same time as the entry fee?

I have to admit I was really debating doing a GoBE but I just can't get my head around paying over £100 for eventing especially with the cost of the petrol to get there. I don't think I've ever felt so disillusioned with eventing. The cost of it is so hard to justify and makes it so that you can do fewer events. It then puts a huge amount of pressure on those few events that you are able to do.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Is the expectation nowdays to pay the start fee at the same time as the entry fee?

Apparently so which completely defeats rhe object of it! I wasn't overly keen on handing over my tenner on the day but it vaguely made sense. Now it just does not at all.

 

[RachelFerd]

Apparently so which completely defeats rhe object of it! I wasn't overly keen on handing over my tenner on the day but it vaguely made sense. Now it just does not at all.

Oh the days of a £10 start fee..... long gone. I don't think they've been that low since about 2010

I know we started paying them up-front because of COVID - but I think they should be renamed and brought into the main fee - but called be flagged as being a £17.45 refund for non-starters?

 

[ycbm]

£140 to do one unrecorded ODE at a riding centre/farm in Staffordshire?

Does anyone need to ask why BE is suffering reduced entries?
.

 

[RachelFerd]

£140 to do one unrecorded ODE at a riding centre/farm in Staffordshire?

Does anyone need to ask why BE is suffering reduced entries?
.

That's not unrecorded - PAYG is recorded, with MERS and with prize money.

And £30 of that £140 is the registration cost - so not the cost of the event.

Clearly it would be possible to run there, cheaper in the GO BE class without paying the registration cost, but that isn't the choice that has been made by the entrant!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I'm not bothered about prize money (I wish!!) but if I did happen to go DC i'd want that to count towards Area Qualification which I don;t think GO BE does.

Last year Katie got her 2 DCs at BE90 in the U18s category and was super excited about Frickley regional champs. But never got her email about qualifying. I rang up and no-one knew why and I was told to just enter her and she'd be fine. it was only after about 6 calls the entry sec said 'oh U18s DCs don't count. Same course, same day, why not? But rules are rules and that was that. She did feel cheated though. If I did happen to go DC twice I'd want to qualify.

So the £30 is not payable each time then? So not the same as the old 'Day Ticket'? That does make it more worthwhile as I have already paid it and so don't need to worry about 'wasting it' on a less than super-exciting event. But the bottom line is it is TOO COMPLICATED.

People who don't find it complicated probably don't aree but I think a really interesting exercise would be for some ID bod to look at how many people start to enter an event and then don't bother in the end. I would be very surprised if they were not losing HUGE number of entrants just because people in the end cant be ar$ed.

I still remember being in literal tears of frustration trying to enter Katie for the first time. It took DAYS and multiple calls to the office and we were running out of time and I really nearly just said 'forget it' but her friends were competing so I persevered.

Whereas if I decide on a whim to enter - say - Epworth or Eland unaff, then 2 minutes later I would be entered and paid up. You are not going to lose anyone that way. They are massively shooting themselves in the foot imo.

 

[RachelFerd]

I'm not bothered about prize money (I wish!!) but if I did happen to go DC i'd want that to count towards Area Qualification which I don;t think GO BE does.

Last year Katie got her 2 DCs at BE90 in the U18s category and was super excited about Frickley regional champs. But never got her email about qualifying. I rang up and no-one knew why and I was told to just enter her and she'd be fine. it was only after about 6 calls the entry sec said 'oh U18s DCs don't count. Same course, same day, why not? But rules are rules and that was that. She did feel cheated though. If I did happen to go DC twice I'd want to qualify.

So the £30 is not payable each time then? So not the same as the old 'Day Ticket'? That does make it more worthwhile as I have already paid it and so don't need to worry about 'wasting it' on a less than super-exciting event. But the bottom line is it is TOO COMPLICATED.

People who don't find it complicated probably don't aree but I think a really interesting exercise would be for some ID bod to look at how many people start to enter an event and then don't bother in the end. I would be very surprised if they were not losing HUGE number of entrants just because people in the end cant be ar$ed.

I still remember being in literal tears of frustration trying to enter Katie for the first time. It took DAYS and multiple calls to the office and we were running out of time and I really nearly just said 'forget it' but her friends were competing so I persevered.

Whereas if I decide on a whim to enter - say - Epworth or Eland unaff, then 2 minutes later I would be entered and paid up. You are not going to lose anyone that way. They are massively shooting themselves in the foot imo.

Yes - the £30 is one off. So any future entry is cheaper. I agree its all quite complicated - I think because they've tried to be reactive and respond to the various issues this year, but that's led to even more options than people can begin to fathom. And now you are registered, it should be a lot easier for each subsequent entry. But I do get the pain factor with the initial start-up.

 

[Michen]

This is making me smile a bit as I’m currently investigating eventing costs in the states.

We have no idea how good we have it here! Why is £100 plus for an event considered outrageous? Do we really think these venues are making a huge profit?

 

[Michen]

I'm not bothered about prize money (I wish!!) but if I did happen to go DC i'd want that to count towards Area Qualification which I don;t think GO BE does.

Last year Katie got her 2 DCs at BE90 in the U18s category and was super excited about Frickley regional champs. But never got her email about qualifying. I rang up and no-one knew why and I was told to just enter her and she'd be fine. it was only after about 6 calls the entry sec said 'oh U18s DCs don't count. Same course, same day, why not? But rules are rules and that was that. She did feel cheated though. If I did happen to go DC twice I'd want to qualify.

So the £30 is not payable each time then? So not the same as the old 'Day Ticket'? That does make it more worthwhile as I have already paid it and so don't need to worry about 'wasting it' on a less than super-exciting event. But the bottom line is it is TOO COMPLICATED.

People who don't find it complicated probably don't aree but I think a really interesting exercise would be for some ID bod to look at how many people start to enter an event and then don't bother in the end. I would be very surprised if they were not losing HUGE number of entrants just because people in the end cant be ar$ed.

I still remember being in literal tears of frustration trying to enter Katie for the first time. It took DAYS and multiple calls to the office and we were running out of time and I really nearly just said 'forget it' but her friends were competing so I persevered.

Whereas if I decide on a whim to enter - say - Epworth or Eland unaff, then 2 minutes later I would be entered and paid up. You are not going to lose anyone that way. They are massively shooting themselves in the foot imo.

Totally get this. The system itself is useless and overly complex and outdated.

 

[RachelFerd]

This is making me smile a bit as I’m currently investigating eventing costs in the states.

We have no idea how good we have it here! Why is £100 plus for an event considered outrageous? Do we really think these venues are making a huge profit?

I posted a thread about US eventing costs on this forum. Eye watering - makes UK eventing look like pocket money.

 

[ycbm]

This is making me smile a bit as I’m currently investigating eventing costs in the states.

We have no idea how good we have it here! Why is £100 plus for an event considered outrageous? Do we really think these venues are making a huge profit?

I don't think anyone thinks they are making a huge profit out of one event, just trying to understand why BE is so much more expensive than unaffiliated at the same venue.
.

 

[lannerch]

I don't think anyone thinks they are making a huge profit out of one event, just trying to understand why BE is so much more expensive than unaffiliated at the same venue.
.

I don’t think it is , but I suspect the answer is to be a BE event the course has to be maintained to a certain standard , so money is spent to achieve that standard . Once spent an extra unaffiliated event at the same venue costs relatively a lot less as the standard is already maintained for Be , plus the unaffiliated event will not have to have thd same amount of officials, vets , drs on call etc.

 

[ycbm]

I suspect the answer is to be a BE event the course has to be maintained to a certain standard , so money is spent to achieve that standard . Once spent an extra unaffiliated event at the same venue costs relatively a lot less as the standard is already maintained for Be

This is a claim that has been made over and over again on this and other threads and hasn't been able to be substantiated. The courses that also run unaffiliated are in use year round for training and for unaffiliated ODE and Hunter Trials. The vast majority of the revenue generated by these courses over a year is for unaffiliated activities. It seems to me to be far more likely that it is the unaffiliated stuff that is paying for the course to be maintained, not the BE.

 

[ycbm]

, plus the unaffiliated event will not have to have thd same amount of officials, vets , drs on call etc.

Then BE needs to find out how they stay legal and satisfy their insurers and spend less money like that.
.

 

[Michen]

I posted a thread about US eventing costs on this forum. Eye watering - makes UK eventing look like pocket money.

Yep I saw. Tbf, it does seem state dependent, but yep it rather puts things into perspective.

 

[shortstuff99]

Also I think costs come into the admin side. I am a XC scorer, scoring for BE, ground jury etc is paid (or at least it was haven't done it since covid). While it is voluntary at unaffiliated. That saves lots of money.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Where will all the unpaid volunteers come from for unaffiliated?

I’ve done RC events run by my own clubs as help days, and BE events as a volunteer, but I wouldn’t volunteer for an unaff event at a show centre.

 

[shortstuff99]

Where will all the unpaid volunteers come from for unaffiliated?

I’ve done RC events run by my own clubs as help days, and BE events as a volunteer, but I wouldn’t volunteer for an unaff event at a show centre.

Normally they 'pay' volunteers via hire vouchers.

 

[Squeak]

Just seen that Swalcliffe UA has been cancelled due to lack of entries. Possibly they were hit by running the same weekend as a new UA venue in the same series only 40 minutes away but I think it's the first UA event I've seen cancelled.

 

[Michen]

Unaff having to cancel too. I do think venues shoot themselves in the foot. I just entered a new one- Bengrove- after seeing in the comments they intend to water if needed to ensure good ground.

I wouldn’t have entered if I hadn’t seen that. Why not advertise that in the posting?

 

[spacefaer]

Swalcliffe were also struggling for fence judges - my timeline was full of shared requests for people to help. From memory, they were saying there were only 150 entered so it wouldn't be a long day.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Normally they 'pay' volunteers via hire vouchers.

That's true, I usually get a choice of a voucher for a farm ride (£15) or a bottle of wine (a lot less than £15). For BE FJ, that is for a 10 hour day plus travel, which works out at a return of £1.50 per hour if I opt for the farm ride voucher, or rather less p/h for the wine. Plus my diesel to get there.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I’m happy to volunteer just to keep the show on the road. Though if venues don’t look after me I don’t go back! Eland and Somerford are great. chatsworth was awful. Never again.

 

[I'm Dun]

I saw some comments saying PC areas were on at the same time as Swalcliffe so that's probably had an impact too.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I don't know how many BE events there are in Scotland but Burgie has just announced that this year is their last. There will be no Burgie 2023. It does seem that Scottish competitors are once again left behind by big organisations in favour of the South.

 

[Lexi_]

I’m happy to volunteer just to keep the show on the road. Though if venues don’t look after me I don’t go back! Eland and Somerford are great. chatsworth was awful. Never again.

That’s why Bold Heath is on my Nope list.