So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Tiddlypom]

Somerford International has announced that they are going ahead on July 1-3, but it must have been a close run thing judging by the way they had been pleading for competitors to get their entries in.

Presumably they picked some up from Skipton. Ill wind and all that. Still find it hard to believe that as an event as well known and as well regarded as Somerford has to hustle for entries.

https://www.facebook.com/1529828314...Fo7jDVGUk7FujQ4UTX3YqnAVsDbDqJNrurabayeTXRFl/

 

[ester]

Are most of the cancelled events ones that run more than once in the season? Just wondering if that is contributing to spreading the target market a bit more/people saying might do the next one and can’t afford both?

 

[RachelFerd]

Are most of the cancelled events ones that run more than once in the season? Just wondering if that is contributing to spreading the target market a bit more/people saying might do the next one and can’t afford both?

Nope. Catton recently cancelled - a parkland one off event.

 

[I'm Dun]

I honestly think people just cant afford it. The cost of living is spiraling rapidly. I'm lucky to be relatively unaffected but most people are taking a big financial hit. Two horses have gone out on loan from my yard in the last couple of weeks as their owners just cant afford them anymore. My yard owner is putting on events at the yard, just low key dressage and show jumping and lots of people are doing that as its cheap and convenient, but there's not many people boxing up to go out and do things at the minute. The lady that events is only doing the Cotswold Cup now rather than BE as its cheaper.

Things are set to get much worse and it does make me worry for the long term viability of events.

 

[HashRouge]

View attachment 93899

Does anyone know how many entries they would need to make it viable? 171 sounds like quite a lot to me, but obviously I don't know anything about the economics!

 

[Wishfilly]

I honestly think people just cant afford it. The cost of living is spiraling rapidly. I'm lucky to be relatively unaffected but most people are taking a big financial hit. Two horses have gone out on loan from my yard in the last couple of weeks as their owners just cant afford them anymore. My yard owner is putting on events at the yard, just low key dressage and show jumping and lots of people are doing that as its cheap and convenient, but there's not many people boxing up to go out and do things at the minute. The lady that events is only doing the Cotswold Cup now rather than BE as its cheaper.

Things are set to get much worse and it does make me worry for the long term viability of events.

Yes, I agree. Not BE at all, but I went to a local show at the weekend and I think entries were a lot lower than they were expecting. The weather wasn't great, which obviously doesn't help BUT it's also the weekend before Royal Cornwall so I think they were hoping some people would like to come out for a practice on grass. And that was definitely significantly cheaper than going eventing even before you consider petrol.

Our local unaff events do seem to be doing well, but I know the first BE of the year in the county struggled for entries, and lots of people can't afford the diesel to get upcountry, so then it's not worth affiliating for only 3/4 events. I think we're seeing a lot of people who used to compete affiliated stepping back to unaffiliated, and then those who used to go out unaffiliated stepping back from competing all together.

 

[Mrs Pink]

Not sure how to do quotes but Skipton have always said they need 400 entries to make it viable @HashRouge

 

[Tiddlypom]

Not sure how to do quotes but Skipton have always said they need 400 entries to make it viable @HashRouge

From Skipton Horse Trials FB page.

A few facts.
Setup £38k - £40k
Abandonment insurance per event now paid by us
£1150.

We need 480 entries to just breakeven.

Any profit gets reinvested to provide new fences etc.

Sadly it is a simple fact that we don't have huge cash reserves. Please enter before ballot to enable us to run. If we are looking at a huge financial loss at ballot we will be left with no alternative but to cancel. This will protect the events reserves and allow us to try again in August.

So the onus is on you to please get your entries in ! We want to run the event for you but cant take the risk of losing £1000's.

We look forward to seeing those entries rolling in !

Thank you.

 

[Mrs Pink]

Even the number of entries has had to go up, mind you last time I was involved was a few years ago lol
Was chatting to one of the organisers a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned that the insurance costs are virtually the same for any event, no matter what class there are running, apparently BE are supposed to be looking at that, as a way of bringing costs down.
For me though, as mentioned above, it's purely down to expense and a lack of events in the area, apart from Skipton, everything else tends to be at least 2 hours away, not good when you factor in the price of fuel as well

 

[YorkshireLady]

I think we are in a middle of a few issues come at once and the fuel as been the last issue that as fully impacted...as it makes the event even more pricey

I still say we have a shrinking market of people that are of the age to have the spare cash to do an expensive hobby. Def ageing group of people that were very committed non pros. Def see a healthy amount in the under 21 and maybe under 25 group. As I said previously RC even we have juniors and then mainly 40 plus...

 

[MagicMelon]

Are there too many BE events in England? I dont think Ive ever heard of a BE event in Scotland cancel due to low entries, ours are far more spread out and there's not many of them though which may well be the key.

Personally, I used to event as much as possible. Nowadays with kids and the cost, its too much. I also really struggle as we dont have nearly enough unaffiliated events in my areas (Aberdeenshire), I think theres only ONE unaffiliated ODE this year within a 2 hour drive of me. So its near impossible to get an inexperienced horse any miles under its belt and I refuse to pay BE fees when I dont even know if my horse will go reliably through water yet! They also seem to make the closing dates so early, always a risk if your horse goes lame etc.

They need to offer more things IMO to attract members. For example their arena eventing Ive heard of sounds great but we dont have any of it anywhere near me. Why dont they encourage more venues to run these all year round? How about BE running old fashioned hunter trials? They'd be brilliant and presumably cheaper than a full blown ODE to run.

These days its so much easier and cheaper to go unaffiliated showjumping or BS - BS there's loads of pretty much every weekend and you can actually win decent money or at least your entry fee back! BE no hope!

 

[milliepops]

I think we are in a middle of a few issues come at once and the fuel as been the last issue that as fully impacted...as it makes the event even more pricey

I still say we have a shrinking market of people that are of the age to have the spare cash to do an expensive hobby. Def ageing group of people that were very committed non pros. Def see a healthy amount in the under 21 and maybe under 25 group. As I said previously RC even we have juniors and then mainly 40 plus...

yep. i think there's still a lot of money about (see a fair bit trucking into my yard on a weekly basis ) but i'd guess there are many people in the middle having to prioritise where to spend their money. Between utilities, diesel, food etc just staying alive is costing lots more than pre-pandemic and while i can comfortably afford to keep my horses, competing is the thing that's gone by the wayside for me. I quit eventing a decade + ago but i wouldn't even fork out to go to a dressage show at the moment.

 

[MagicMelon]

From Skipton Horse Trials FB page.

A few facts.
Setup £38k - £40k
Abandonment insurance per event now paid by us
£1150.
.

Why does it cost £38,000 for setup? Can this be reduced at all? I dont see how it can cost this much when most people (bar judges) are volunteers and presumably they just need to hire in toilets, showjumps etc. does that really equate to almost £40,000?

 

[milliepops]

Bigg-ish events (N upwards) used to say that it could cost £1k a fence and that was yonks ago when i was competing.

Anyone seen the price of timber recently?!

 

[MagicMelon]

Bigg-ish events (N upwards) used to say that it could cost £1k a fence and that was yonks ago when i was competing.

Anyone seen the price of timber recently?!

Surely they re-use a lot of fences though? I dont know of any venues that make a complete set of brand new XC jumps for every event? Surely its just maintainence?

 

[milliepops]

Surely they re-use a lot of fences though? I dont know of any venues that make a complete set of brand new XC jumps for every event? Surely its just maintainence?

even if they only spend £50 a fence for maintenance (a new rail here, some paint or creosote there, new brush) multiply that up for however many levels they run that's still a big investment if only running 1x year, plus competitors tend to like new fences now and then. Ground repair, all weather take offs etc etc etc

then, yeah, add in tannoy hire, toilets, vet, medic etc i bet it adds up very fast.

 

[ihatework]

Why does it cost £38,000 for setup? Can this be reduced at all? I dont see how it can cost this much when most people (bar judges) are volunteers and presumably they just need to hire in toilets, showjumps etc. does that really equate to almost £40,000?

Fence maintenance,
Ground maintenance,
Administrating the set up,
Charges/Deposits on paid services (temp stabling, medical etc)
Labour for the set up (multiple days)

I can quite see ~40k easily

 

[RachelFerd]

Surely they re-use a lot of fences though? I dont know of any venues that make a complete set of brand new XC jumps for every event? Surely its just maintainence?

If you're running at 4 levels, with ~25 jumping efforts at each level, that's 100 jumps. If you're replacing 20% of the course each year as well as maintaining the existing fences, I can easily see how you'd have to spend £38k

 

[teapot]

I do wonder whether the cost of things need explaining to the wider public sometimes? ‘Oh why is set up so expensive’. Well…

Ever tried hiring multiple portaloos? That’s a just one four figure sum because you can’t just hire for the three days you actually need them.

Temp stables for overnights - four, if not five figures depending on size and duration.

Ground prep - hiring of machinery if not owned, diesel etc, into four figures.

If hot weather is due - extra water will be into four figures too.

I’m surprised they’ve said ‘only £40k’ this year tbh!

 

[YorkshireLady]

also payment to land owner? that must be part of it as well at many venues?

 

[Tiddlypom]

also payment to land owner? that must be part of it as well at many venues?

Cholomondeley won't be cheap, for sure. The estate will be getting a handsome payback from Musketeer.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I complained earlier about the BE website. My experiences with it have been horrendous. Not just because the website is badly designed (though it is) but because the entry process is so complex - too many diffrent types of memebership, unclear which one is best or what each one gets you. Horse validation etc etc etc. My membership has (I presume) lapsed but I should be able to log in anyway with my old details and renew easily. Like any other site would allow. What is the betting I can't?! Anyway I am about to try and enter. I will feedback! This sounds trivial but honestly my blood pressure is rising just considering it. And that alone is enough to put people off. Why waste time fighting technology when you can enter ANY OTHER COMPETITION so, so easily.

Deep breath - I'm going in!

 

[TPO]

I complained earlier about the BE website. My experiences with it have been horrendous. Not just because the website is badly designed (though it is) but because the entry process is so complex - too many diffrent types of memebership, unclear which one is best or what each one gets you. Horse validation etc etc etc. My membership has (I presume) lapsed but I should be able to log in anyway with my old details and renew easily. Like any other site would allow. What is the betting I can't?! Anyway I am about to try and enter. I will feedback! This sounds trivial but honestly my blood pressure is rising just considering it. And that alone is enough to put people off. Why waste time fighting technology when you can enter ANY OTHER COMPETITION so, so easily.

Deep breath - I'm going in!

Even more annoying/frustrating qhen you consider how much money they spent on it...

 

[Ample Prosecco]

OK well it could have been worse!
I could log in which was a pleasant surprise and the PAYG option was easy to buy.

Then we got to horse registration.... Firstly - where?

No drop down option that says 'Register A New Horse' when I was trying to enter Stafford. I had to go and try and find it. Also not anywhere particularly obvious. Which I did via about 5 other pages including one that said 'how to enter'. The first line of which said 'so you have your membership and your horse is registered. You are ready to enter'. Not very helpful. But I did eventually find My BE.

Then the passport details - Horse Sport Ireland does not come up as an option. And 'date of import'. I have no idea! I chose the date she came to me but she moved around a lot and I have no idea if they check these things. So no idea if I can get her validated or not. We shall see.

Still I started at 9.28 and have managed to renew membershiup and apply to have her validated in about 30 minutes. Which is not too painful.....

 

[thunderpony]

Just seen that Bold Heath have cancelled their BE event in August.

 

[Patterdale]

Just seen that Bold Heath have cancelled their BE event in August.

I don’t understand why they wouldn’t even try?? I would have entered!
Seems a bit defeatist, but I suppose I can understand

 

[EventingMum]

OK well it could have been worse!


Then the passport details - Horse Sport Ireland does not come up as an option. And 'date of import'. I have no idea! I chose the date she came to me but she moved around a lot and I have no idea if they check these things. So no idea if I can get her validated or not. We shall see.

I'm just guessing but would this be because horses in Britain should have the passport overstamped by a British PIO?

 

[DressageCob]

I don’t understand why they wouldn’t even try?? I would have entered!
Seems a bit defeatist, but I suppose I can understand

Why should they try? So many events (including locally) have either been cancelled or reduced to fewer days, and the rest have had to scramble to get entries. They have to pay so much just to get organised, and what's the point of that investment if there's no guarantee of reward?

It's so deflating to see excellent local venues making these decisions but I can't blame them at all.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Progress report....
Managed to log in - hurrah
Managed to buy PAYG membership - hurrah
Then it was not obvious what happens next. Tried to enter Stafford and realised that of course Lottie does not know up under 'horse'.
So I figured out how to register her but then still could not enter.
If you go to My BE she is there. So I waited 24 hours. But she still does not show up.
So then I tried to buy her a membership to see if that makes her appear - and have bought PAYG membership for her.
But I still can't enter. So I guess it's a passport validation issue.

If they want people to have a go and to PAYG it they need to make it easier. I am motivated to enter Stafford specifically and I actively want to support BE, But if a person sees the PAYG offer and thinks that sounds greatl I'll do a BE, they then have to complete a process that involves:

1) Registering
2) Choosing Membership
3) Buying membership
4) Registering a horse
5) Scanning and uploading a passport
6) Buying membership for the horse
7) Waiting x days till that all works
8) Finally entering.

And never minf the mind boggling complexity of trying to enter on behalf of an U18 yo.

Many people are simply not going to bother, especially when none of the steps are intuiive so you end up just going round and round in circles trying to understand what you need to do. Eg Fron the ENTER page you just can't see the horse. There is no link from there to the Register a Horse page. Or the Buy Horse Membership page or a helpful tip of what to do.

I get that these are affiliated comps. So you need to check details - though I have never had anyone check my horse against my passport at an event - but why not let you enter immediately and check afterwards? And then contact if there is a problem. The way insurance companies do. If you want to event a season of course once you are set up it gets easier. But if they are trying to attract the person just giving it a go as a one off, then it just isn't sensible to make it so hard.

Anyway - 24 hours in and I am not still not entered. Nor do I know if there is a problem with my validation or if it just has not happened yet so don't know if I need to do anything or just wait and enter tomorrow or the next day or next week sometime.....

 

[McGrools]

Progress report....
Managed to log in - hurrah
Managed to buy PAYG membership - hurrah
Then it was not obvious what happens next. Tried to enter Stafford and realised that of course Lottie does not know up under 'horse'.
So I figured out how to register her but then still could not enter.
If you go to My BE she is there. So I waited 24 hours. But she still does not show up.
So then I tried to buy her a membership to see if that makes her appear - and have bought PAYG membership for her.
But I still can't enter. So I guess it's a passport validation issue.

If they want people to have a go and to PAYG it they need to make it easier. I am motivated to enter Stafford specifically and I actively want to support BE, But if a person sees the PAYG offer and thinks that sounds greatl I'll do a BE, they then have to complete a process that involves:

1) Registering
2) Choosing Membership
3) Buying membership
4) Registering a horse
5) Scanning and uploading a passport
6) Buying membership for the horse
7) Waiting x days till that all works
8) Finally entering.

And never minf the mind boggling complexity of trying to enter on behalf of an U18 yo.

Many people are simply not going to bother, especially when none of the steps are intuiive so you end up just going round and round in circles trying to understand what you need to do. Eg Fron the ENTER page you just can't see the horse. There is no link from there to the Register a Horse page. Or the Buy Horse Membership page or a helpful tip of what to do.

I get that these are affiliated comps. So you need to check details - though I have never had anyone check my horse against my passport at an event - but why not let you enter immediately and check afterwards? And then contact if there is a problem. The way insurance companies do. If you want to event a season of course once you are set up it gets easier. But if they are trying to attract the person just giving it a go as a one off, then it just isn't sensible to make it so hard.

Anyway - 24 hours in and I am not still not entered. Nor do I know if there is a problem with my validation or if it just has not happened yet so don't know if I need to do anything or just wait and enter tomorrow or the next day or next week sometime.....

Yes agree completely. My patience with technology is very fragile. If you are going to make it difficult for me to give you my money then it really is 50/50 if i will bother.