So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Michen]

Urgh it’s all so frustrating. I’d quite like to run in the unaff on the Sunday the day after the BE as due to be a bit cooler. The unaff event won’t allow a swap even though I have someone who wants to withdraw and whose place I could take. they don’t have a waitlist.

Yet I’m now on all the USA eventing pages where people sell their entries right up until the day, they just go to the secretary to change the name. And that’s at affiliated level

I do feel we are our own worst enemy sometimes, so much red tape.

 

[ihatework]

I don’t blame Aston for that, I think you are being unfair. - we have a clear entry and refund policy for BE. You accepted it when you made your entry. If everyone chopped and changed their mind all the time it would be a nightmare.

You could withdraw from BE and pay for unaff late entry.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

That might just be individual show secretaries being helpful or not… rather than a BE thing. Katie had tonsillitis for the BE at Solihull and her friend rode Dolly - we changed it within less than 48 hours. Unless you can change rider or horse but not both?

 

[Michen]

I don’t blame Aston for that, I think you are being unfair. - we have a clear entry and refund policy for BE. You accepted it when you made your entry. If everyone chopped and changed their mind all the time it would be a nightmare.

You could withdraw from BE and pay for unaff late entry.

No, I can’t. It’s nothing to do with the BE. The unaff won’t allow a late entry. Despite having someone who has to withdraw (four days before the event) and me whose happy to take the place or even pay a full entry on top of the one they already have (so they get the money x2 just for the admin of doing a name change!)

So by not doing a name change someone who would really appreciated a refund with a lame horse is unable to get one and someone else whose happy to pay is unable to pay.

I just wonder how other countries manage and we can’t?

 

[ihatework]

You were saying you wanted to swap from the BE to the unaff?? Not going to happen.

Taking the BE out of the equation, Just taking the unaff entry - that’s a venue issue not a BE issue so I don’t get why it’s being put out as a BE issue.

 

[Michen]

You were saying you wanted to swap from the BE to the unaff?? Not going to happen.

Taking the BE out of the equation, Just taking the unaff entry - that’s a venue issue not a BE issue so I don’t get why it’s being put out as a BE issue.

no IHW I have not written it clearly. I meant me personally swap- not that Aston should swap my entry! So I withdraw my BE Entry (and absolutely no I would not expect a refund) but place a new entry with the unaff, to replace someone who has to withdraw.

It is not a BE issue. If is the unaff being unwilling to let me enter late despite there being a space and a person who’d love to sell it to me so they can get some money back. Or even don’t refund the other person, just increase the profit of the event by allowing a late entry for a space you definitely have four days prior to the day!

 

[ihatework]

So why is it on ‘what has British Eventing done wrong’ ????

Just give your friend the entry fee and run in her slot if it’s that important to you both (although I agree rather unhelpful of Aston all things considered)

 

[Michen]

So why is it on ‘what has British Eventing done wrong’ ????

Just give your friend the entry fee and run in her slot if it’s that important to you both (although I agree rather unhelpful of Aston all things considered)

It was more about eventing in general but I agree I shouldn’t have posted it in this thread, sort of forgot it was about BE specifically as I was more referencing the general difficulties in eventing. Tired, didn’t think ?

Yes I could run in her name but that feels dishonest all round and not great if you have an accident etc.

 

[Michen]

That might just be individual show secretaries being helpful or not… rather than a BE thing. Katie had tonsillitis for the BE at Solihull and her friend rode Dolly - we changed it within less than 48 hours. Unless you can change rider or horse but not both?

Yes totally my fault, I was thinking about the general difficulties in eventing- this situation is not BE related at all. I know the unaff scene is doing better than BE but I’ve still seen plenty of unaff events locally being cancelled and I think events just need to be more accommodating (where they can).

 

[Wishfilly]

A little bit out of date (as I think it was first announced about a week ago), but the second BE event at Launceston has been cancelled due to low numbers. It was due to run this weekend. It is a real shame to lose a BE event in Cornwall as it wasn't that long ago, we didn't have any. However, I do know that the hard ground this summer has meant people have struggled to keep horses fit, and there have also been major traffic problems within the county that I can imagine have put people off travelling over the bank holiday weekend.

I would assume cost is a factor too, despite the GoBE classes etc as well.

Anyway, the course will now run a hunter trial in September instead.

I do think it would be a huge shame if the county lost affiliated eventing, as it's a huge trek to get to Bicton for your first time out and it will put a lot of people off- but I also think the calendar in Cornwall/Devon hasn't been well planned this year (despite only 3 venues), which isn't great and I imagine put people off affiliating this year.

 

[LEC]

A little bit out of date (as I think it was first announced about a week ago), but the second BE event at Launceston has been cancelled due to low numbers. It was due to run this weekend. It is a real shame to lose a BE event in Cornwall as it wasn't that long ago, we didn't have any. However, I do know that the hard ground this summer has meant people have struggled to keep horses fit, and there have also been major traffic problems within the county that I can imagine have put people off travelling over the bank holiday weekend.

I would assume cost is a factor too, despite the GoBE classes etc as well.

Anyway, the course will now run a hunter trial in September instead.

I do think it would be a huge shame if the county lost affiliated eventing, as it's a huge trek to get to Bicton for your first time out and it will put a lot of people off- but I also think the calendar in Cornwall/Devon hasn't been well planned this year (despite only 3 venues), which isn't great and I imagine put people off affiliating this year.

Events got cancelled last year due to lack of entries like Dauntsey.

BE is in the shit financially. So I think there are lots of plans in pipeline

 

[Ample Prosecco]

It’s a vicious circle - I joined BE to do Stafford and Cholmondely which were both cancelled. So I regret joining now and next year might join and enter late - just to make sure events are running first. Which increases the chances that they won’t run…. I’m planning to do Norton Disney in October but that will be my only BE run this year in the end.

 

[Wishfilly]

Events got cancelled last year due to lack of entries like Dauntsey.

BE is in the shit financially. There will be an announcement soon about Badminton GR qualifying. The new method is a lot better!!

It's just a shame, I think- the first Launceston event had to compress to one day, Port Elliot ran in the end with low numbers (as in I don't think it was financially viable) and now Launceston has cancelled their second event. I'm not blaming anyone as such- although I do think it was silly to have Bicton and Port Elliot running within a week of each other.

Glad to hear the new GR qualifying system is better, but I don't know of many people down here who go for qualifying, due to the distances involved- but it's still nice for people to have the chance to get to affiliated events without having to travel to the other side of the next county- but obviously full accept they can't run if not supported!

 

[LEC]

Launceston has a new date now - swapped with Bovington

 

[thunderpony]

Kelsall Hill’s September BE cancelled, running unaffiliated instead!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Llanymynech is just running today instead of both Sat and Sun.

Kelsall's statement:-

It is with deep regret that we feel we cannot commit to running our British Eventing Horse Trials 23rd - 25th September.

We are at the point where we have mown the grass ready for putting the cross country course out, all the fences have been repainted and significant ground works completed to facilitate a change in the course which would make the centre the hub.

Tomorrow, we had planned to place the fences and the contractor fees would have started mounting up. With less than 80 entries at this stage for 3 days competition l see no prospect of breaking even and with a large opportunity cost of losing 150 acres of potential silage we cannot take the financial risk of running.

We apologise for any disappointment to members, sponsors and trade stands.
After 16 years of running BE Horse Trials, we never thought that this would be a decision we would have to take.

As requested in April we put the 80’s on at the weekend and unfortunately it hasn’t stimulated enough interest.

There is clearly a need for a fundamental think about why we are at a point that we cannot run with enough BE entries, of course the cost of living is a key concern but the decline in entries has gone on for some time and of course Covid has had a long lasting negative legacy. We hope that BE address the loss of momentum and look forward to 2023’s International with some excitement but a great deal of trepidation.

The good news is that we plan to offer clients the choice to participate in an unaffiliated event instead on the same weekend with heights 70cm, 80cm, 90cm and 100cm, there won’t be a novice or intermediate option.

 

[ester]

It seems unlike others they didn't announce the fact that they were low on entries and would poss cancel before the ballot date if people didn't get entries in. Especially if people were waiting for payday given how it falls. Though I guess if you are running 2 days or nothing that's a lot of entries to be waiting for.

 

[Tiddlypom]

That's true, only 2 days ago there was just a standard reminder to enter, not a 'we won't run if we don't get enough entries' alert.

????'? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ??! ?

Have you got your entries in for the JCL Insurance Brokers Kelsall Hill Horse Trials (2)?

If not, what are you waiting for be quick to avoid disappointment, click the link below to enter...
https://tinyurl.com/4565v8ru

We look forward to seeing you at the end of September!

 

[Orangehorse]

Sapey is running one day instead of two. The organisers have to have a minimum number of entries or they don't cover costs.

 

[Orangehorse]

One more thing that BE has done "wrong" is the rename all the different classes. Since I am not competing or have any connection to a any competitor, the names of the classes are meaningless. As a casual observer and reading Horse and Hound reports I don't know what all the different classes are or what level they are. In my day it was Novice, Intermediate and Advanced. Simple. There were various tweaks such as Open, then Pre Novice was introduced.

I now need a little handbook to translate if I really want to know what the different levels are.

 

[RachelFerd]

One more thing that BE has done "wrong" is the rename all the different classes. Since I am not competing or have any connection to a any competitor, the names of the classes are meaningless. As a casual observer and reading Horse and Hound reports I don't know what all the different classes are or what level they are. In my day it was Novice, Intermediate and Advanced. Simple. There were various tweaks such as Open, then Pre Novice was introduced.

I now need a little handbook to translate if I really want to know what the different levels are.

What, renaming them at the height levels is too complicated?? Strangest comment I've read in a while. If you want to know what an 80 is.... The clue is in the name.

 

[RachelFerd]

It seems unlike others they didn't announce the fact that they were low on entries and would poss cancel before the ballot date if people didn't get entries in. Especially if people were waiting for payday given how it falls. Though I guess if you are running 2 days or nothing that's a lot of entries to be waiting for.

I suspect that the fact that the ground was very firm for their spring event put a lot of people off. I was personally waiting for payday too...

Now I'm driving to Northumberland or Hull for a replacement novice run - it's an expensive and annoying situation. But the more often events like Kelsall run unaffs, the less people will decide to affiliate, and the problem just gets compounded. It's all a bit shortsighted.

 

[ester]

I did wonder if it meant you had to reroute again.

 

[RachelFerd]

I did wonder if it meant you had to reroute again.

Yip. The amount of extra mileage I've been forced to do this year is ridiculous. I've probably done about £400 extra in fuel costs already.

 

[ycbm]

One more thing that BE has done "wrong" is the rename all the different classes. Since I am not competing or have any connection to a any competitor, the names of the classes are meaningless. As a casual observer and reading Horse and Hound reports I don't know what all the different classes are or what level they are. In my day it was Novice, Intermediate and Advanced. Simple. There were various tweaks such as Open, then Pre Novice was introduced.

I now need a little handbook to translate if I really want to know what the different levels are.

Got to disagree, sorry. Pre-Novice was the most meaningless name ever, and now there's an 80, and a 70, Intro for 90 is senseless too. Novice is very misleading, too when it has jumps at 1m15 and Novice at local shows meant 2ft 9, 90cm..

 

[LEC]

I suspect that the fact that the ground was very firm for their spring event put a lot of people off. I was personally waiting for payday too...

Now I'm driving to Northumberland or Hull for a replacement novice run - it's an expensive and annoying situation. But the more often events like Kelsall run unaffs, the less people will decide to affiliate, and the problem just gets compounded. It's all a bit shortsighted.

I have been involved with some of the background stuff going on behind the scenes for BE and I think it’s good news for organisers at grassroots.

 

[teapot]

Out of interest, is there a specific cut off for when ballot dates are, ie does it have to be a set period of time before the date of the event?

 

[RachelFerd]

I have been involved with some of the background stuff going on behind the scenes for BE and I think it’s good news for organisers at grassroots.

I'm pretty sure Helen and Mark are right people for the job. But getting organisers on board is clearly hard, as a lot of clashing short term objectives. And an audience of people who want to have a nice day out cantering around portables in a field to try and bring into the proper sport...

 

[ycbm]

And an audience of people who want to have a nice day out cantering around portables in a field to try and bring into the proper sport...

Do you realise how elitist you sound there, Rachel?

 

[Dexter]

Got to disagree, sorry. Pre-Novice was the most meaningless name ever, and now there's an 80, and a 70, Intro for 90 is senseless too. Novice is very misleading, too when it has jumps at 1m15 and Novice at local shows meant 2ft 9, 90cm..

Its all the CCI4* stuff that means nothing to the average person