So what has British Eventing done wrong?

Patterdale said:
It’s awful but I think the days of Eventing in these beautiful unique venues is almost over. And it didn’t need to be.
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This was always going to happen as soon as heights were dropped to a level that an average riding club member could do. The whole point for the big country houses was that this was an elite sport that they were offering elite venues to run at.

As soon as the equestrian centres were needed in order to run the number of PN (BE100) and below dates that were required, the elite feel went out the window and only the most die hard eventing lovers among the estate owners were going to carry on.

Some of us predicted this when PN was introduced, howled it out when BE 90 came in, were screaming with BE80 and a reduction in age to 12 so suddenly it was a children's game, but were ignored and this is the entirely expected result.

I feel utterly privileged to have been riding Novice in the days of the big country house courses that have now mostly gone and very sad about the current mess.

If BE couldn't hold on to Somerford this year on an estate where an Olympic eventer lives, is married to the owners' daughter and does the course design, what hope is there unless something drastic happens?
 
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ycbm said:
This was always going to happen as soon as heights were dropped to a level that an average riding club member could do. The whole point for the big country houses was that this was an elite sport that they were offering elite venues to run at.

As soon as the equestrian centres were needed in order to run the number of PN (BE100) and below dates that were required, the elite feel went out the window and only the most die hard eventing lovers among the estate owners were going to carry on.

Some of us predicted this when PN was introduced, howled it out when BE 90 came in, were screaming with BE80 and a reduction in age to 12 so suddenly it was a children's game, but were ignored and this is the entirely expected result.

I feel utterly privileged to have been riding Novice in the days of the big country house courses that have now mostly gone and very sad about the current mess.

If BE couldn't hold on to Somerford this year on an estate where an Olympic eventer lives, is married to the owners' daughter and does the course design, what hope is there unless something drastic happens?
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Yep, it's one of those things that worked for them initially because it brought in the grass roots money, but it was at the expense of the riding club eventing scene and all the local organisation and energy and training that went with it - they effectively gutted the structure that fed competitors into the BE affiliated sport, without then putting in place (to the same degree) the local organisation and structure required to replace it.

And now unaffiliated eventing has stepped into the gap, which isn't really the 'right' thing long term either
 
The loss of Floors is very sad it was a lovely place to ride .I am not sure what the real issue is there but if it can’t turn a profit it can’t .
Burghham entries however look good .
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
Another one gone, I can see there being no eventing in a few years If this is the rate that venues and events are being lost.

Yes I’m sure that it’s not BEs fault in the slightest, they are only the governing body after all. 🙄
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There'll be eventing ..... it'll be run weekly at Aston Le Wallls
 
I think BE comms are shit. The BD ones are brilliant. I just think they could learn so much from BD - surveys, feedback, actions taken, how they are trying to improve things at all levels, additional competitions. I also like that BD does a lot regionally and has a regional rep, who also sends out comms and then of course the great team comps it offers. That is all on BE. They have a huge staff compared to the other disciplines as well.
 
Curious how long refunds took for abandonments with the centralised system compared to what seems like pretty long waits for insurer decisions for the self-insured events?
 
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Goldenstar said:
The loss of Floors is very sad it was a lovely place to ride .I am not sure what the real issue is there but if it can’t turn a profit it can’t .
Burghham entries however look good .
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Gutted about Floors, a lovely event and the organisers did a great job. If that can't break even its scary.

Burgham has more entries in the 4 star than 90! (At least when I looked a few days ago)
 
Elf On A Shelf said:
I saw that. But then I thought if one committee who have been running events for years can't make it pay for itself then realistically who would want to take it on?
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It was Kick On events that ran it whom, I assume are a company, I wonder if they are more profit driven whereas a committee may be happy to break even and won't have paid staff although obviously the course builder etc will need paid. If anyone does take it on it will undoubtedly be a big ask to keep it going.
 
spacefaer said:
There'll be eventing ..... it'll be run weekly at Aston Le Wallls
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And today - a little eye spy into the future of eventing - a 3*s class at Aston with a 96% clear rate. Two sections of 3* - about 250 horses in all, and basically a glorified combined training competition, with a little bit of variation around xc time penalties. This is NOT the sport I want to take part in for the next 20 years of my life :(
 
RachelFerd said:
And today - a little eye spy into the future of eventing - a 3*s class at Aston with a 96% clear rate. Two sections of 3* - about 250 horses in all, and basically a glorified combined training competition, with a little bit of variation around xc time penalties. This is NOT the sport I want to take part in for the next 20 years of my life :(
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This is a big part of the problem at the lower levels too. Basically at a lot of 80 & 90 comps if you're not knocking out a sub 30 dressage you aren't getting placed. The SJ is too often a formality in terms of jumping & time allowed, as is the XC.
 
Zebedee said:
This is a big part of the problem at the lower levels too. Basically at a lot of 80 & 90 comps if you're not knocking out a sub 30 dressage you aren't getting placed. The SJ is too often a formality in terms of jumping & time allowed, as is the XC.
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At 80 the xc clear stats actually trend a lot lower - probably reflects the bigger restrictions on who can participate. 90 and 100 are more of a dressage competition, particularly at 100 level where the pros are bringing on their young horses. I think the average "bar" for xc clear rate is usually around 80% - less and you know it's a tough track, more and you know it was soft. But 96% at 3* is ridiculous.
 
RachelFerd said:
And today - a little eye spy into the future of eventing - a 3*s class at Aston with a 96% clear rate. Two sections of 3* - about 250 horses in all, and basically a glorified combined training competition, with a little bit of variation around xc time penalties. This is NOT the sport I want to take part in for the next 20 years of my life :(
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I know! I have a tiny share in a horse who was in that class. I was watching on eventing scores and couldn’t believe all the green squares on the live xc scoring.
 
RachelFerd said:
And today - a little eye spy into the future of eventing - a 3*s class at Aston with a 96% clear rate. Two sections of 3* - about 250 horses in all, and basically a glorified combined training competition, with a little bit of variation around xc time penalties. This is NOT the sport I want to take part in for the next 20 years of my life :(
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And a soft SJ track on a surface by the looks of it. So now lots have got qualifications for 3*L that arguably shouldn’t have. And we know 3* is the statistically one of the most dangerous levels for serious/ fatal falls.
 
ALW is perennially known as soft.

I did just one Intermediate, clear XC too. I always hasten to add it wasn't at ALW!!! It was at Burnham Market, where you can be proud to go clear!

If I was producing one for sale I would certainly go to ALW. Clear sheet = more £££ and all that.
 
It is fine for ALW to be an easy intro to any given level. (Though 96% means it is clearly TOO easy) But there needs to be a range of options - good intro to the level courses and good 'prep for stepping up' courses. Maybe they should even be graded. Like climbing routes are - a technical grade and an overall difficulty grade.

The technical grade in climbing is the hardest move on the climb. Say 5c. Or 6a.
Then the overall grade is how long, exposed, sustained, steep it is. Eg E1 or E4

So a 90A coud be an easy 90 while 90C means a tough one. And myabe you can't qualify or gain MERS without doing some B or C Courses.

Just a thought...
 
No skin in the game at all here but I do wonder how relevant eventing will be to horse sport in the next few years...perhaps the 'original' version of eventing is now so long gone that there isn't much of a context for it as a sport in itself now? I mean SJ and Dressage are really accesible (as much as any horse sport is really) but the XC element now seems to be beset with issues; venues, ground, training, safety, qualifications etc that from an outside perspective, looking at the kind of all weather xc tracks, it really doesn't look like part of 'eventing' as many might understand it. The original XC element had 'purpose' in terms of horsemanship and breeding (post war) as well as international sport but now what is the purpose of the XC element when it might seem either too sanitised or too technical if you know what I mean? Sorry if that is rambly but I can't see eventing integrity in many of the current ways of working it; until you get to the top where things are actually questionable in terms of fair and safe sport. The sport certainly looks in peril at the moment.
 
FWIW My prediction is that eventing will eventually become an area based sport. For example I think the huge surfaced arena going in at ALW could possibly allow a course of minimum length and jumping efforts - certainly at the lower levels - although even if that did turn out to be the case I'm not sure if the current xc speeds could be safely applied. Advantages will be seen as not so susceptible to the weather, spectator friendly, cheaper to run, less labour intensive, and in these days of social licensing kinder to the horses from a public perception basis. Disadvantages will be extremely limited venue availability, and the total swing away from the very soul of the sport .
**Please note - the above is pure speculation on my part.
 
The problem I can see if you try to go xc on an artificial surface is the same will happen there as with what happened to jump racing on the all weather tracks. More injuries and fatalities due to there being no slip on take off of landing. You need the turf to give a little when going into a fence at a decent speed. You need the turf to slip a little on landing to accommodate the concussion. It's all fine and well show jumping on a surface because you are always going up then down. Bit xc is a little more like racing in thar some fences you do travel to, over and away from without breaking stride overly much.
 
Elf On A Shelf said:
The problem I can see if you try to go xc on an artificial surface is the same will happen there as with what happened to jump racing on the all weather tracks. More injuries and fatalities due to there being no slip on take off of landing. You need the turf to give a little when going into a fence at a decent speed. You need the turf to slip a little on landing to accommodate the concussion. It's all fine and well show jumping on a surface because you are always going up then down. Bit xc is a little more like racing in thar some fences you do travel to, over and away from without breaking stride overly much.
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Not to mention the risk of a fence not being secured properly on a surface vs straight into the ground.



Just to mention the elephant in the room, and this is purely observation as a spectator of results, social media posts, and the sport as a whole. Some that event have to a point got more picky about what/where they run: too hard, too soft, too hilly, not hilly, small water, big water, want to avoid spooky ditches, not good with shadows, not technical, too technical etc etc.

People are looking for the perfect event which doesn't exist as the whole art of cross country riding isn't perfect, it's facing what you find and getting on with it, or at least it used to be. So it shouldn't come as a surprise if the sport is now becoming artificial. The problem is that it then directly impacts the top of the sport in terms prepping horses, but also the safety of rider and horse as they merrily side step their way up the qualification route, only to come categorically unstuck at x event.

I completely understand why one horse amateurs want to protect their horses and ensure longevity, but I'm not sure becoming so picky that you only run at the 'perfect' event does anyone any good. There's a prolific social media poster who I occasionally follow who dreams of going 5* yet won't run her horses in the conditions that could be found at said 5*. How in any way is that fair prep for the horse?
 
teapot said:
Not to mention the risk of a fence not being secured properly on a surface vs straight into the ground.



Just to mention the elephant in the room, and this is purely observation as a spectator of results, social media posts, and the sport as a whole. Some that event have to a point got more picky about what/where they run: too hard, too soft, too hilly, not hilly, small water, big water, want to avoid spooky ditches, not good with shadows, not technical, too technical etc etc.

People are looking for the perfect event which doesn't exist as the whole art of cross country riding isn't perfect, it's facing what you find and getting on with it, or at least it used to be. So it shouldn't come as a surprise if the sport is now becoming artificial. The problem is that it then directly impacts the top of the sport in terms prepping horses, but also the safety of rider and horse as they merrily side step their way up the qualification route, only to come categorically unstuck at x event.

I completely understand why one horse amateurs want to protect their horses and ensure longevity, but I'm not sure becoming so picky that you only run at the 'perfect' event does anyone any good. There's a prolific social media poster who I occasionally follow who dreams of going 5* yet won't run her horses in the conditions that could be found at said 5*. How in any way is that fair prep for the horse?
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Spot on!
 
teapot said:
Not to mention the risk of a fence not being secured properly on a surface vs straight into the ground.



Just to mention the elephant in the room, and this is purely observation as a spectator of results, social media posts, and the sport as a whole. Some that event have to a point got more picky about what/where they run: too hard, too soft, too hilly, not hilly, small water, big water, want to avoid spooky ditches, not good with shadows, not technical, too technical etc etc.

People are looking for the perfect event which doesn't exist as the whole art of cross country riding isn't perfect, it's facing what you find and getting on with it, or at least it used to be. So it shouldn't come as a surprise if the sport is now becoming artificial. The problem is that it then directly impacts the top of the sport in terms prepping horses, but also the safety of rider and horse as they merrily side step their way up the qualification route, only to come categorically unstuck at x event.

I completely understand why one horse amateurs want to protect their horses and ensure longevity, but I'm not sure becoming so picky that you only run at the 'perfect' event does anyone any good. There's a prolific social media poster who I occasionally follow who dreams of going 5* yet won't run her horses in the conditions that could be found at said 5*. How in any way is that fair prep for the horse?
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I don’t think it is *that* hard to find events with good ground conditions though. I am very fussy on ground. I think it was last summer where it was hugely hot, I didn’t need to withdraw from a single event either unaff or BE and we were running a couple of times a month, sometimes more. Everywhere had done the relevant ground prep. It may have been a different story if I was in a different area of the country rather than the south where you have an abundance of events to choose from and can therefore go where you know they will have done a good job with the ground/it’s the kind of ground you can easily work.

Perhaps people need to be prepared to travel more.
 
I view hard or soft, boggy ground as part of the challenge. Lottie’s fitness regime takes leg strength, ligaments/bone etc into account. Lots of very steep, rough hacking. Plus sure footedness and proprioception.

Felix has lived out on a hill his whole life to build strong bones, tendons and ligaments, and to improve his ability to gallop downhill in balance. But my friend with a foal the same age - also destined to event - was warned off that hill-field by both her RI (an eventer) and her physio. In case of injury hooning about on a hill. That foal had been in a safe flat field for a few hours a day since weaning. In at night. I’m not judging - she’s doing what she feels comfortable with and I’m doing what feels right to me.

But I’m raising it as an example of the vast differences in perspective about this. Plus I’ve had some pressure to withdraw in challenging conditions (why risk it) and also some raised eyebrows about Felix being on ‘rough ground’ where he could get hurt. It is sometimes hard to face down criticism, especially from people more experienced than me. But I do think XC riding should include some skills in riding varying terrain and on less than ideal ground.
 
Just going to put this here - this is a project I have been keeping a close eye on. So far it’s looking promising for sporthorses.

Peder Fredricson on the progress report from the Brösarp-project: “I think it’s the way to bring up young horses to become strong athletes”

Releasing 1-&-2-year-old Swedish-bred jumping horses together with Icelandic horses on a large, hilly area, the project aimed to see how the young horses developed when moving freely in diverse terrain.
www.worldofshowjumping.com www.worldofshowjumping.com

The Brösarp-project: Breeding for durability

“My whole life I have been working to prevent lameness, and this will be my last project,” 83-year-old Ingvar Fredricson says about the research on the young horses in Brösarps-backar, Sweden.
www.worldofshowjumping.com www.worldofshowjumping.com

breedingnews.com

Equine monitoring: Brösarp Project – a haven in Skåne - Breeding News for Sport Horses

By Jean Llewellyn Photography/Graphics: Hoofstep Former head of Sweden’s national studfarm and father to Olympian showjumpers Jens and Peder, Ingvar Fredricson first introduced me to the Brösarp Project in 2020, before the lockdowns of the Covid pandemic stalled so many industries. However, we...
breedingnews.com
 
Ambers Echo said:
That’s really interesting. Thanks for sharing x
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Basically keep doing what you are doing. Your friend is ignoring data….

Proven experience has shown that horses reared on large, preferably hilly ground, with diverse footing conditions, will be far more durable. Dutch researchers (René van Weeren et al.) have studied the importance of different housing regimes of foals.
They found that pasture turnout day and night during the first three years is best for the development of the musculoskeletal system (cartilage, tendons, and ligaments, muscle, and skeleton).
A dynamic remodeling of the musculoskeletal system already takes place during the first five months of a foal’s life, then successively slows down. Most interesting was that the researchers found that the shock absorbers of the limbs, the collagen of the joint cartilage, were fully developed already in the first year of the foal’s life.
They also found that foals kept in freedom on pasture became better developed than foals with less hours to move freely. The conclusion of René van Weeren and co-workers was that: “Rest is bad for foals. Watch this, because if not, you may end up with a healthy (looking) foal, but one of inferior quality.”
 
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