So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Snowfilly]

slightly amusic/ironic that the money pouring into BE from David Howden comes from his insurance empire, and yet it is the cost of insurance (not with Howden specifically) that is creating so many issues with the calendar. Suggests to me that the insurers are winning.

Now I've not the first clue about rugby, but the new BE CEO is ex CEO of Rugby Football Union for Women in England - so perhaps there's actually some link there in the join-up between Howden/BE and Rugby. I dunno - just interesting.

Also - interesting Eventing Podcast with Rosie Williams the other week. She's big on improving accessibility into the sport at grassroots level - so will await with interest if its possible to operationalise that somehow.

Anecdotally there’s a big cross over between women who event and women who play rugby, I think there’s a decent level of crossover fitness and disregard for your own limbs. So I’m not surprised to see links between the sport at a high level.

 

[teapot]

slightly amusic/ironic that the money pouring into BE from David Howden comes from his insurance empire, and yet it is the cost of insurance (not with Howden specifically) that is creating so many issues with the calendar. Suggests to me that the insurers are winning.

Now I've not the first clue about rugby, but the new BE CEO is ex CEO of Rugby Football Union for Women in England - so perhaps there's actually some link there in the join-up between Howden/BE and Rugby. I dunno - just interesting.

Also - interesting Eventing Podcast with Rosie Williams the other week. She's big on improving accessibility into the sport at grassroots level - so will await with interest if its possible to operationalise that somehow.

Not sure re crossover as the Lions brings together the Welsh, Irish, Scottish and English rugby unions, where as the new BE CEO only worked for the RFU. The Lions is an entirely different set up and the RFU has far less sway in it than their own set up. Whether the new CEO suggested in passing rugby was worth looking at is anyone's guess. Though from the email I had re the Lions, at the very bottom it suggests Howdens have been involved with the men's team time for a while. The fact women's rugby has taken off and has a far better future than three day eventing is interesting from a 'shall we increase our investment' point of view.

Could actually be nothing and I've read too much into it. I just wonder if the money is there to be spent though, why don't they further their BE funding or offer a pot for organisers to use etc. Please apply for x pounds to be able to run your BE event.


@Snowfilly the one missing link is the medical side. Equestrianism could learn a huge amount from the research now being done into brain injuries, concussion etc

 

[LEC]

I never understood why they don’t monetise their dressage tests for a start. BD makes a lot of money from theirs. If BE turned around and said we will invest the money in X,Y, Z then I would be like cool. Though the whole focus on more youth drives me mad. They get twice as many opportunities as an adult.

 

[RachelFerd]

I never understood why they don’t monetise their dressage tests for a start. BD makes a lot of money from theirs. If BE turned around and said we will invest the money in X,Y, Z then I would be like cool. Though the whole focus on more youth drives me mad. They get twice as many opportunities as an adult.

The youth thing bugs me too, mainly because it didn't exist when I started. But I do have to analyse whether my dislike of the youth focus comes from jealousy or not... I think it's a bit of both. It's fair to say that it is the younger lot coming through who need to shape a sport which will be sustained into the future

 

[LEC]

I totally understand that they are the future but they are losing adults left, right and centre through unaffiliated eventing. A huge number of my friends so CC now because so much is better about it. I know your arguments, but if you look at it from a customer perspective:

• 1 year qualifying cycle with a very decent champs and a clear qualifying route.
• Amazing prizes at the champs - a friend came 3rd won £400 cash, £150 Fairfax and Favor Voucher etc
• Wonderful parkland events - Glanusk is back and I do love several of the events which don't do BE over BE events at the same time.
• No membership fees
• Fairer competition ( yes, there are pros but the amateurs tend to do better and juniors are very much split out)

Anyway will see what happens. The whole organisation just feels about youth now whereas CC feels more focused on adults. I am hugely ambivalent about BE and would not bother with it if I could avoid it but I have things I want to do..... and need BE MERS!

 

[RachelFerd]

I totally understand that they are the future but they are losing adults left, right and centre through unaffiliated eventing. A huge number of my friends so CC now because so much is better about it. I know your arguments, but if you look at it from a customer perspective:

• 1 year qualifying cycle with a very decent champs and a clear qualifying route.
• Amazing prizes at the champs - a friend came 3rd won £400 cash, £150 Fairfax and Favor Voucher etc
• Wonderful parkland events - Glanusk is back and I do love several of the events which don't do BE over BE events at the same time.
• No membership fees
• Fairer competition ( yes, there are pros but the amateurs tend to do better and juniors are very much split out)

Anyway will see what happens. The whole organisation just feels about youth now whereas CC feels more focused on adults. I am hugely ambivalent about BE and would not bother with it if I could avoid it but I have things I want to do..... and need BE MERS!

You know I understand the appeal of the CC stuff and why people are drawn to it - but at the end of the day, it wouldn't and couldn't exist without the sport being governed at some kind of overarching level. So somehow the pieces have to be put back together if this sport is going to carry on existing. Especially in a world where there are a tonne of external factors which are going to make its existence tougher.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I've read on FB that BE now require owners to go back to 6 monthly vaccs? Not been able to confirm. If true, it is just 1 more barrier to accessibility.

 

[Roxylola]

I've read on FB that BE now require owners to go back to 6 monthly vaccs? Not been able to confirm. If true, it is just 1 more barrier to accessibility.

No
They allow 12 monthly and what I read says _recommend_ that the booster is within 6 months of your competition date. Everyone seems to have seen that and lost their minds though

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks for clarifying.

The post I saw was from a vet who also evented, struggling to know how to advise her competitive clients. The conclsuison seemed to be that in practice that means 6 monthly - unless you time Vaccs for March and stop running in September???

 

[ihatework]

Thanks for clarifying.

The post I saw was from a vet who also evented, struggling to know how to advise her competitive clients. The conclsuison seemed to be that in practice that means 6 monthly - unless you time Vaccs for March and stop running in September???

If the word used is recommend then it’s not required. They are probably just trying to keep things as in line with FEI as possible. Not worth flapping about.

 

[Ambers Echo]

It does not say reommended, it says required... and 'should'.

Required is obvious. What does 'should' mean, though. To me it reads as compulsory, not recommendation.

"The new requirements for the time frame for any new Primary Vaccination course, between the V2 and V3 vaccinations, will now be 6 months and 21 days (previously it was within 7 months).

In addition to this, any horse competing should also show that a booster injection has been given within 6 months and 21 days of the competition. Please see the full rule for details."

 

[ihatework]

It does not say reommended, it says required... and 'should'.

Required is obvious. What does 'should' mean, though. To me it reads as compulsory, not recommendation.

"The new requirements for the time frame for any new Primary Vaccination course, between the V2 and V3 vaccinations, will now be 6 months and 21 days (previously it was within 7 months).

In addition to this, any horse competing should also show that a booster injection has been given within 6 months and 21 days of the competition. Please see the full rule for details."

Right I have gone to source (mental note don't rely on internet whispers).
The BE published changes for 2024 are copied below but in summary: There is no recommended or should in relation to this. It's a MUST.
So yes you will need to vaccinate within 6 months 21 days of a competition.
It's not a big deal, for those that don't compete 1st March - 30th October (which is the vast majority) could easily shift their annual booster date to be compliant.

Vaccinations – National Competitions
No Horse may take part in a BE National Event (which includes entering competition stables) unless it has a current vaccination against equine influenza which complies with the following conditions:
• Prior to 2024 an initial Primary Course of two vaccinations (V1 and V2) must be given with the second vaccination being administered within 21 - 92 days of the first vaccination.
• The first booster (V3) must be administered within 7 calendar months of the date of the second vaccination (V2) of the primary course.

*New for 2024* Any horse receiving a new Primary course as of 1st January 2024 must be vaccinated as follows;
• V1 - (initial vaccination)
• V2 - (second vaccination) must be administered 21 - 60 days after V1.
• V3 - (first booster) must be administered within 6 months and 21 days of V2.
• Subsequent booster vaccinations must be given at intervals of not more than 12-months.
• However, in order to compete a horse must be vaccinated in accordance with the above rules and MUST also have had a vaccination within 6 calendar months and 21 days of the competition, BUT;
• A horse may not compete if it has been given a relevant injection on any of the seven days before it is to compete at the event. Thus, a horse vaccinated on Friday 1st, may not compete before Saturday 8th.

*Please note:
• the 12-month period was never extended under BE rules to 15 months during the vaccination shortage period (Oct 2022-Dec 2022) therefore any horse missing their 12-month booster during this period should have restarted their primary course.
• Horses that have received the Primary course prior to 1 January 2005 are not required to fulfil the requirements for the first booster (V3), providing there has not been an interval of more than 12 months between each of their subsequent annual booster vaccinations.
• All proprietary Influenza vaccines are accepted, provided the route of administration complies with the manufacturer’s instructions (ie intramuscular injection or intranasal).

 

[Tiddlypom]

Shifting to 6 monthy boosters, which at any rate is best practice, doesn’t sound unduly onerous a requirement to me.

 

[ihatework]

Shifting to 6 monthy boosters, which at any rate is best practice, doesn’t sound unduly onerous a requirement to me.

It's not, but why spoil a good moaning opportunity

And actually you don't need 6 monthly boosters anyway! Although granted the big yard would just do it routinely.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

IHW, this is exactly the same requirements to attend any event hosting FEI competition.
The likes of Royal Windsor horse show has had same vaccs regs in place for all classes (in hand, ridden and the like as well as international classes etc) for a few years now, where it has to be inside 6 months and x days prior to the event.
One place I do a camp at has the same too.
Nothing new, just some new to the scene, do like to add drama about it

 

[Squeak]

It's not, but why spoil a good moaning opportunity

And actually you don't need 6 monthly boosters anyway! Although granted the big yard would just do it routinely.

Would you not need it if you're competing in March - October and so even if you jabbed in March you'd need another one to be within 6 months for October?

It seems a bit odd for BE to have a different policy to BS and BD when they all run FEI events and it does unfortunately potentially add more cost on to being able to event.

 

[ihatework]

IHW, this is exactly the same requirements to attend any event hosting FEI competition.
The likes of Royal Windsor horse show has had same vaccs regs in place for all classes (in hand, ridden and the like as well as international classes etc) for a few years now, where it has to be inside 6 months and x days prior to the event.
One place I do a camp at has the same too.
Nothing new, just some new to the scene, do like to add drama about it

Completely agree.
Why national bodies, esp in Olympic disciplines, would not align with the FEI before bemuses me

 

[ihatework]

Would you not need it if you're competing in March - October and so even if you jabbed in March you'd need another one to be within 6 months for October?

It seems a bit odd for BE to have a different policy to BS and BD when they all run FEI events and it does unfortunately potentially add more cost on to being able to event.

If you are competing March to Oct year after year then yes you would need them.
Otherwise you can vaccinate any time within your 12 month booster schedule to fit your personal competition diary

 

[quizzie]

Shifting to 6 monthy boosters, which at any rate is best practice, doesn’t sound unduly onerous a requirement to me.

Unless you have a horse that has a serious reaction to vaccines…..when doing fei, I had to carefully plan my competing schedule against the vaccine requirements….he could take up to a month to recover.

 

[ycbm]

Unless you have a horse that has a serious reaction to vaccines…..when doing fei, I had to carefully plan my competing schedule against the vaccine requirements….he could take up to a month to recover.

I'm pretty sure you can apply for an exemption for horses like this. I have always been told that it's unwise to repeat a vaccination with the same brand (adjuvant) once a horse has had a bad reaction.

They are trying to achieve herd immunit by requiring vaccination, they can afford to have a tiny number which are not covered.
.

 

[quizzie]

I'm pretty sure you can apply for an exemption for horses like this. I have always been told that it's unwise to repeat a vaccination with the same brand (adjuvant) once a horse has had a bad reaction.

They are trying to achieve herd immunit by requiring vaccination, they can afford to have a tiny number which are not covered.
.

You can apply ( and pay a non-refundable fee to do so), but the bar is set impossibly high to gain exemption. I haven't tried myself, but know of people with even more severe reactions than mine who have been turned down.

 

[ycbm]

You can apply ( and pay a non-refundable fee to do so), but the bar is set impossibly high to gain exemption. I haven't tried myself, but know of people with even more severe reactions than mine who have been turned down.

That's really bad, vaccine reactions can be dangerous, as I'm sure you know.
.

 

[ester]

No Weston park now

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

6 months vacs is another reason for people to keep UA eventing instead

 

[LEC]

Jabs are now £60 and depends if you can drive to vets to reduce costs. All because of a minority who stable with FEI. Forgetting that majority never stable and never are near FEI horses

 

[Ambers Echo]

It's not, but why spoil a good moaning opportunity

And actually you don't need 6 monthly boosters anyway! Although granted the big yard would just do it routinely.

I vaccinate in August as I go away for 2 weeks in the summer holidays with the family and she is done at the start of my holiday. So I can't event this seasons without bringing that forward. Lottie has a mild but clear reaction to vaccs. My practice for a few years now has been to event early season and late season with less in the middle when ground is hard. So I would need to vaccs twice yearly.

I had been targeting Epworth on 2nd March. And the RFs (fingers crossed) late September.

I'm not having a moan but it is another barrier when I am already struggling with affordability. Each year costs rise, my income drops (COL crisis) andt this year 2 new requirements have come into effect that add additional cost. In the meantime favoured venues disappear. I've just bought a new BP in anticipation of the start of the season. Now I need to decide if I will vaccinate Lottie too, or actually not bother and go unaff or just focus on BS instead.

These concerns can be dismissed this as 'moaning', but really it just feels like multiple little nudges away from BE that add up to one day individuals, one by one for different reasons, thinking 'sod it'. And doing something else instead.

 

[TheMule]

In the grand scheme of things, having an early flu booster is no big deal to me- it's not much money Tbh, and mine will cover me for the whole event season as I don’t do March eventing and rarely make it to October!
I do, however, think I will feel the pinch of more expensive entry fees, the abandonment charge and the fact that double clears won’t qualify me for regionals anymore

 

[Ambers Echo]

the fact that double clears won’t qualify me for regionals anymore

I had not realised that. That's my RF chances dramatically reduced.
I do think Lottie could be competitive if she did not keep boiling over in dressage at events, but I really liked the fact that good jumping horses could get somewhere. So that's another nudge.

 

[RachelFerd]

In the grand scheme of things, having an early flu booster is no big deal to me- it's not much money Tbh, and mine will cover me for the whole event season as I don’t do March eventing and rarely make it to October!
I do, however, think I will feel the pinch of more expensive entry fees, the abandonment charge and the fact that double clears won’t qualify me for regionals anymore

Yeah not convinced the removal of DCs as a qualification route is very clever. And also not totally sure about letting the downgraded horses back in - on one hand, quite nice for horses to have a more options for later on in their career when they're slowing down, but will definitely up the influence of dressage, even more.

 

[Squeak]

Yeah not convinced the removal of DCs as a qualification route is very clever. And also not totally sure about letting the downgraded horses back in - on one hand, quite nice for horses to have a more options for later on in their career when they're slowing down, but will definitely up the influence of dressage, even more.

I'm not convinced by that either. I can see that it's nice for older horses to have something to qualify for but they're already really valuable as schoolmasters and a horse that has been competitive at the top levels but stepped down doesn't really seem fair competition to a grass roots horse.

I'm also not convinced by the removal of the double clear route.

Feeling very uninspired to do BE's after their announcements today - I would have to jab specially in March (yet more money), an increase in entry fees, harder to qualify for the regionals and even if I did get there then it would be even harder to be competitive.

I'm really sad, I used to love eventing but it just gets more and more unfeasible with less to attract you to it.