So why/when/do you use a stick?

[TarrSteps]

Following on from a couple of threads, what is the purpose of whips/sticks in riding and training? When and how do you use them? How do you know it's the right choice vs other options?

I find 'whip' has such a negative connotation even I, who is quite hardy about things like that, find myself reluctant to use the word!

 

[wench]

See my post on bad loader thread. Horse mentioned in there was a stubborn git. One good whack with a stick and he'd (generally) go straight in.

 

[vic07]

Back up to my leg.
Reprimand for naughtiness - Oh this may cause trouble!

 

[chestnutt]

I have been avoiding using the stick on my horse, as I find it starts a 'fight' which I doubt I will win!

 

[Crazycob06]

I always carry one in case of emergency out on hacks as my mare will run sideways a little if something scares her and I would rather have to use my riding crop than run into traffic. I have never yet had to use it though!

In the school I carry one also as I believe it is kinder to have a little tap with a schooling whip then to kick like crazy, I think I have only had to use a schooling whip twice though, she is a lovely forward going mare.

 

[PolarSkye]

I have always been taught that a stick/whip is used as a back-up to an ignored leg aid . . . by way of example, today Kal wasn't listening to Z's leg and seat aids when she asked him to move his hind quarters over to perform travers . . . after asking with her leg and then a reminder with a (blunt) spur, she gave him a flick with the schooling whip . . . she used it to back up her leg aid and it was effective. One flick. A reaction. A pat. Move on. It meant she could keep her leg aid light, give him nothing to lean on and keep her seat soft and "allowing."

The next time she asked for a reaction with her leg, he listened and reacted accordingly.

Personally, I'd rather he learned to respect/bounce off her (and my) leg than have what I used to have . . . a horse who either ignored or leaned on the rider's leg . . . and if that's achieved with a quick flick with a schooling whip, so be it.

What I don't like is over- or mis-use of the whip . . . smacking to punish misbehaviour rather than rewarding desired behaviour. To me, it's counterproductive. I didn't respond to the "smacking to punish run-out" thread, but I don't see how hitting a horse after it's done what you DON'T want it to is ever going to encourage it to do what you DO want it to do . . . but then I'm a big softy .

When Donkey was being an utter whotsit on the cross country course at Rogate back in October (multiple refusals and rearing fits) Z didn't smack him once . . . just kept re-presenting him at the fence and didn't let him turn the way he wanted to turn . . . b/c she has great stickability and endless patience, she won . . . and that taught him far more than hitting him would have done . . . had she smacked him, she would have been doing it out of frustration and she would have lost the battle b/c she would have lost his brain . . . as it happened, he worked out that it didn't matter what he threw at her, she wasn't going to give in.

I get that there's a subtle difference between using a flick of a whip to back up an aid and smacking to punish unwanted behaviour . . . but I do believe that there IS a difference.

P

 

[ArcticFox]

I carry a stick for jumping. My horse is whip shy if I carry a dressage stick so can't use one on the flat.

For jumping the only time I have used one is to back up my leg - say over a big fence, or if he was a bit sticky and I felt that my leg wasn't enough. My horse will panic if he thinks you are going to beat him, but a slap on the shoulder won't faze him and he responds to it. Once over the fence, he gets positive reinforcement by a little 'good lad' and knuckle rub on the withers.

I also carry one for side saddle as my right leg. But its a bit like the dressage stick - its more for a tickle or pressing to the side rather than a beating.

For bad loaders, I have used it to tap the feet to get them to step forwards, then positive reinforcement pat/encouragement.

 

[ihatework]

Current dressage horse I am riding I have been warned off carrying one, let alone using one To be fair to the horse she is ultra responsive and I haven't ever felt I've ever really needed one with her - other than once when I was trying to do a tricky gate out hacking and ended up having to get off instead!!

But as a standard I find them most use to flick up/back up a leg aid when schooling. That said, having ridden above horse I do think I might have over the years been too reliant on the schooling whip and may have at time inadvertantly trained to a light whip flick rather than leg/seat ... a mental note I have recently taken away with me.

As and when I jump (which is getting less and less as I get older and wimpier) I would always carry a short stick. In all honesty I would never really wallop a horse as if it was tricky enough to need it I probably wouldn't ride it!! But I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I felt something backing off or running out of a shoulder.

I am honestly struggling to remember the last time I used a whip with any force. Probably about 18 months ago when one of mine went through a phase of kicking out if another horse came up his backside, he got a couple of sharp smacks for that.

 

[scheherazade]

With a schooling whip, I largely use it to reinforce a leg aid, if required. And then only if leg aid has been ignored. Twice. So I will ask properly and nicely, if there is no reaction, then I will ask more firmly. If that is still ignored I will ask a third time and back it up with a schooling whip. Then repeat and generally the response is instant off the first request. Pat, and move on to the next thing. With a jumping whip I will generally use it to regain control of the shoulder if the horse is, for instance starting to "bulge" around the corner. More often than not, (with the exception of my current horse) the presence of the jumps and the fact that I am carrying a whip means the horse is naturally more forward than he would be on the flat. I always carry a whip out hacking but I really only use it for help with gates etc

 

[AmyMay]

To open and close gates.

 

[kc100]

Only really doing dressage I tend not to use a whip, just because if we ever made it up the levels (I can dream cant I!) then we wouldnt be able to use it. To me there is no point in letting the horse get used to me riding with a whip as he'd come to expect it if he was getting a bit behind the leg or ignoring aids, so when it came to a competition he would know that he could be lazy and there would be nothing I could do about it.

However saying all of this I have an incredibly forward going horse who never ignores my aids (probably reacts too strongly to them if anything!) so I dont have an issue of him being lazy or not listening to me.

I appreciate there are certain horses who benefit from a tap with the whip at certain times to reinforce an aid, some dressage moves it actually helps to tap with the whip to help the horse understand what leg to move or which direction to move in etc, and I think if I ever jumped properly (more than the few little grids I do at home) then I'd carry a short stick just as a back up in case you felt them trying to run out or refuse a fence.

But as a whole, I prefer not to use them if possible because I want the horse to be listening to me and me only, not some other gadget or device. I guess I approach whips in the same way as additional tack beyond a snaffle bit on the bridle and a dressage saddle - it is all uneccessary if you are schooling/training the horse properly and I prefer riding without it where possible! Whips are just another gadget that I like to avoid

 

[siennamum]

I generally have never had to carry a stick or use it on previous horses, my current horse is a complete contrast.
With him, I will punish with a whip, but I'm not sure it really acheives anything apart from making him resentful. My policy is to reward for forwards, be persistently deamanding when he plants, and to punish with a whip if he actively goes backwards or tries to rear or spin. When he slams the brakes on and I feel him lift his front end & go to spin right, I generally only have to show him the whip by holding it out and he will rethink his plans.
He seems to have a conscience, he will tolerate being punished if he has tried to be naughty and I've caught him out, but will get resentful & nasty if I am too punishing, or if a stranger/farrier/man generally tries to reprimand him.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I believe that they should only be used as with spurs on a horse that is already responsive. A whip maybe useful in some more advanced lateral movements (I don't know I am not there yet!). I use one on the ground to ask for my horse to move one particular leg by touching it lightly with a whip.
I personally only use a whip hacking incase of an emergency - say my horse was spooking into the road or I needed to remind a car to give me some room.

 

[Goldenstar]

To back up a leg aid
At times as a reprimand for say napping if apporiate .
To direct the horse to the bit I am working on for instance laying the whip on the outside shoulder of a horse falling out what one of my old trainers used to call "the this bit you fool " aid.
As a cue as in the Spanish walk I am just learning this and having great fun with my TB.
It's an aid the whip like any other .
Oh and like Amy may I use them to do gates to.
And I can pick up a dropped glove with one too.

 

[YasandCrystal]

And I can pick up a dropped glove with one too.

Yes of course I like that one

 

[hayinamanger]

Gates and swotting flies.

 

[vermillion]

Never use schooling whips ( can't use it in competition anyway so it removes the temptation to become reliant on one with a lazy horse).

Always carry a short stick on the babies, when jumping and when out hacking though, like amymay said - they are handy for gates.

Short sticks mean I have to deliberately use it, and that in itself means that I have time to think if the horse has been genuinely naughty; or whether I have asked the wrong question or the question wrong.

Having had a horse arrive which was tremendously whip shy I would always err on the side of caution and think before I reprimanded.
Horses do not understand 'sorry'.

 

[anna22]

My boy is very whip shy so I rarely carry one. Yes he can be a bit lazy off the leg at home, but get him out competing and he sparks up and I have no need for a whip. I will carry on out hacking, for gates, waving at cars and in case of emergencies requiring swift movement.
But I promised myself I'd never use one on him when I changed my whip hands doing flatwork once and he freaked out... had a complete nervous breakdown over it and I had to drop the whip before he would calm down. I think he's obviously been on the receiving end of one in the past. If I smacked him going into a fence with a short one he'd crumple and panic, he listens enough to your leg and seat and is as honest as the day is long. If he does something wrong, it is inevitably something I have done wrong in the first place!
I have done groundwork with him, teaching him not to fear it, just to listen to it and he's better. I can carry on for flatwork as a back up to my leg as he can lean on me but I don't bother anymore, a firmer kick usually works.

 

[MandyMoo]

to be honest....I rarely ride with one at home; mainly because I forget to get it out my car as I arrive at the yard and can't be arsed to go back to my car to get it - but on the rare occasion I do remember, I will carry a standard whip for jumping in case I need a small tap on the shoulder, and then a schooling whip to back up my leg (or help with lateral work commands) during flat work.

but if I am honest, I don't often ride with whips at home (although I do always carry a whip when I'm at SJ or XC competitions)

 

[lme]

I sometimes carry a schooling whip when riding my mare to allow me to clarify my aids. I an be a bit unclear and sometimes just touching her with the whip gets her attention or helps her understand what I want. She isn't in the slightest bit worried about me carrying one.

 

[Luci07]

Back up only. Also when I used to have to hack out on roads, I found a schooling whip carried out sideways was an incredibly useful tool to making cars give me enough room! you would think they wouldn't see it but they always seemed to. However it is horses for courses, I would never carry a whip on my mare as never ever needed one, do carry a short schooling whip with my young horse to reinforce leg aids but very rarely need to do that now either

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I use a stick to back up my leg when riding and my voice when lunging.

I will also use one to remind a horse to pay attention and as a reprimand.

 

[frannieuk]

I rarely carry a whip with my "grown up" horses (unless SJ, and then for my reassurance, don't think I've ever actually used it!), but I do always carry a schooling whip when riding youngsters. I use it for backing up my leg aid by giving a tickle if the reaction's not there, and occasionally as a reprimand.

For example, my 4yo has been going great since I backed her in Jan, but she's feeling a bit fitter and a bit cocky now and pushing the boundaries - 2 days ago she spooked at a filler we'd passed several times previously and ran back hard. I corrected with my seat, legs and rein and carried on, but next time round she did exactly the same, but harder and faster - I sat back, and gave her one good hard smack behind my leg, allowed her to skit forwards and jump around in aggrieved horror, and then came calmly back around and passed the filler fine - she didn't even look at it.
She's a smart cookie and learns fast, and whilst I don't mind her being bright and testing the boundaries, I'm not going to let her learn bad habits that she has to unlearn later. Sometimes one reprimand is kinder than negotiation, but I am not in favour of over use, nor of repeated nag, nag, nag with the stick.

 

[rowy]

Cannot carry a whip on dancer as she has a nervous breakdown. Guessing she had been beaten up in previous home she does t really need encouragement to go forward anyway lol.

Inka (4year old) she can have nappy moments in the school where she tests me to see if she can get away with doing something. A little flick with a whip and she doesnt try it again.

Rowan (6 year old) is a stubborn lazy but clever horse. Somedays I will carry a whip but I don't need to use it but sometimes if he isn't listening to my leg I use it to back up my leg. Another good use is by holding it against his quarters it stops him swinging them to the inside. I also carry a short whip with him on a hack as he can just stop and refuse to move at times lol.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

I try to avoid using a whip to ask for more forwards tendency if possible, unless the horse is THAT backing off that its a legs away, kick and gallop around the school type job. I think they should go off leg aids and leg aids alone.

On a baby horse
- to keep them straight, for instance if they keep falling in and not responding to a particular inside leg, I would reinforce my inside aids with a flick of a schooling whip behind my leg
- lateral work, again usually on the more difficult rein if they won't step laterally, I will flick behind my leg
- often hold a whip in my outside hand when cantering a baby, I would in this case flick them before they even thought about slowing down so that they learn to just stay in the canter without me having to drive with my legs constantly.

On a more advanced horse
- to increase inside leg activity I will sometimes flick, like when training collection on a circle, or when asking for more engagement through a corner. If the timing is right it works well, if not you're just deadening the horse to the whip aids.

Hacking
- would ALWAYS carry one incase of any "moments"!

I have seen a few riders bouncing a schooling whip off the croup when asking for collection or extension which I am not too sure about as it seems to make most horses just go croup high?

 

[kerilli]

Depends totally on horse (as usual)! With a real mickey taker I might give a smack with a whip for a really serious misdemeanour, but generally find a sharp word is more effective, especially with mares. Really don't want to get into a You vs Me argument with a sharp mare...
With a schooling whip, I'd use it as a flick to get horse in front of the leg (but only if all else has failed), and for a rub on haunch to get horse to bring a hind leg up in halt, for example.
Tbh I'd say I carry a whip about 1/10 of the time I ride nowadays, if that.

 

[meardsall_millie]

Generally only carry one in competition in case of an 'Oh 5h1t' moment coming into a jump Never use one at home.

 

[Lynds]

To have stickling out at a right angle to my leg to 'discourage' car drivers from space invading....

 

[blackhor2e]

With my horses the whip is used merely as a clarification of my aids only if they are ignored which to be honest isn't very often. I have found though that the more I understand the horse the less necessity I have for using the whip at all.

 

[Toffee_monster]

I drive, and in driving you should ALWAYS carry a whip for safety more than anything to back up your aids. If your driving horse shies at something you cant use your leg so the whip placed down the inside is very important.

I also like mine to be quick off the mark in transitions so use the whip to back up my voice aid