Sold horse new owner trouble

[Tiddlypom]

Im always amazed that when someone comes on here saying theyre having difficulties with a new horse.....within the first few posts someone always without fail advises sending the horse back to its previous owner.

I think some people should stick to bicycles....horses will play up, test out a new owner, not settle etc.....

People don't seem to want to work through any issues any more.

^^^ Agree.

In a previous post, I mentioned a respected dealer who is giving up partly because of this after over 30 years in the trade. She used to reckon on just one horse a year being returned as things didn't work out. Nowadays people want a refund after the slightest of hiccups.

 

[ester]

I think it would be mad to take it back if they won't even let you see it beforehand!

 

[EmmasMummy]

And some. For all we know they could have him on barley rings and rolled oats!!

I got a 20 yr old super quiet made on laon when I was 13. Gave her energy feed for some oomph and well......she tipped a gate down and went loopy galloping about- was like giving a 5yr old red bull!

 

[Tabbi]

I would offer to take him back but for less money.

I don't think they will have done too much damage in that time with a bit of luck, just pushed him too far til he lost it with them.

I Agree with this! at least if you can get him back you know he is in good hands!

 

[paddy555]

I don't know what you should do. However is there another scenario. The buyer seemed genuine, you saw her ride and handle the horse so presumably she wasn't a complete numpty. Everything was OK to start with and she sent you updates. That does sound possibly genuine. Then the horse flipped, reared, obviously frightened her, may have had her off and turned into a complete monster. Perhaps he did. All the instructor sees now is an utter monster.
There is one thing that I have seen happen that turns a genuine horse into a monster and that is ulcers. I have had one who has got very bad at this time of the year. I have had another that really did stand on his hind legs and go for people. It is not the most obvious thing people look for. No doubt with your experience you would but possibly the buyer has a lot less experience and cannot tell the difference between pain and bad behaviour.
It may not be her fault to a degree. The horse may have been very happy in your "gut frendly" environment. Coped with his routine, no problems. Possibly the move, the travelling, the strange environment, possibly the feeding (maybe you were hi fibre and she is more grain based who knows) everything that has happened has caused an ulcer problem. Maybe in fact no one is really to blame. The horse in the meantime is in a lot of pain and that is why he has turned into a monster not through poor riding or bad handling. Just an idea as to why. Some horses seem to cope with any move, any amount of stress with no problems and then the quietest, most friendly calm individuals cannot manage it. I know as I bought one who was a bit like the one you described. Very genuine and once I resolved his pain that caused his unpleasant behaviour he was back to being a saint. In the meantime he had no choice for his poor behaviour. He was in pain!.

 

[pip6]

Not sure of answer, but you said you could sell him 10 x over. I'd insist on viewing & vetting horse before return, & a base my refund price on what I found (otherwise making decision with only other party's opinion), which may be the full sale price. Take him back & sell him to a more suitable home if you think anything of him, something is making him unhappy.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Not sure of answer, but you said you could sell him 10 x over. I'd insist on viewing & vetting horse before return, & a base my refund price on what I found (otherwise making decision with only other party's opinion), which may be the full sale price. Take him back & sell him to a more suitable home if you think anything of him, something is making him unhappy.

This is the problem, OP seems reasonable, owner wants OP to take horse back and refund with no viewing

 

[Marydoll]

He's not broken. And I would absolutely take him back.

How do you know the horse isnt broken ? A lot of damage both physically and mentally can be done to a horse in 4 weeks that might take a fair bit of time and possibly money to sort out.

 

[hayinamanger]

OP, how can you possibly agree to accept the horse back without even seeing him? The owners should allow you to see the horse before you agree to anything.

 

[ihatework]

In your shoes, I would simply inform the new owners that you are not willing to enter into any further discussion about the horse until they have made him available for you to view and assess. You simply canot make an informed decision about how to proceed until you can assess his living conditions, current stable management, tack fitting, soundness and behaviour under saddle.

 

[Vodkagirly]

In your shoes, I would simply inform the new owners that you are not willing to enter into any further discussion about the horse until they have made him available for you to view and assess. You simply canot make an informed decision about how to proceed until you can assess his living conditions, current stable management, tack fitting, soundness and behaviour under saddle.

This, if they won't agree to this, they have something to hide.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Late to this thread so not read all the replies.

Honestly, I would state that I wanted to go over and assess the horse both on the ground and ridden and have a 5 stage vetting done and if they won't let you do that then say fine, you'll have the horse back for £1800- also minus the cost of a five stage vetting! OR, will sell it for them on their behalf.

Honestly, everyone saying 'pay up and buy back or your reputation will be in tatters.' are I think being far too hasty. IF you sold a perfectly safe horse to them, that passed a 5 stage vetting and was hoof perfect when they tried him out and have evidence of this and also evidence of offering to go over and help them out with him/assess him then there's no way I'd be so quick to take him back.

The horse shouldn't suffer I know, but for goodness sake that's life, the horse is an animal not a robot and they have been perfectly happy with him up until now.

I certainly wouldn't just be letting them drop him off and handing over their £2800 that's for sure!

 

[SusieT]

tbh if she refuses to let you go teach her/ride the horse to see what it's doing I would be saying no thank you-it could have had an accident while away etc. and why won't she try with it? You can't buy a 5yr old and throw the towel in without trying. Why should you, assuming you sold it and know in your heart of hearts it showed no tendancies this way. I would also require it to be 5 stage vetted by them before returning as you sold in goodf aith. do you buy and see or just involved in the horsey world?

 

[Goldenstar]

In your shoes, I would simply inform the new owners that you are not willing to enter into any further discussion about the horse until they have made him available for you to view and assess. You simply canot make an informed decision about how to proceed until you can assess his living conditions, current stable management, tack fitting, soundness and behaviour under saddle.

OP I think it's fair that they agree to this and I would push hard for this having first taken legal advice if you walk away and refuse to take the horse back you must be clear in your mind what you could be getting in to .
It could cost you far more than the horses value .

 

[JadeyB]

what a horrible situation - I agree with the people saying to insist on seeing and vetting the horse (at the new owners expense) before taking him back. Sadly it seems people just think horses are disposable these days if they aren't perfect.

I watched a friend of mine try to sell on a few nice horses and it does seem that some buyers are very quick to try to hand back a horse if it puts a foot wrong or doesn't immeadiately meet expectations. You sound like a decent and reasonable person, don't get bullied.

Hopefully there will be a happy ending for you and your horse too. All the best.

 

[Nettle123]

This is all very unfair for the OP. What is to stop these people bad mouthing her even after she has taken the horse back. Nothing like the horse world for unpleasant and unfounded rumours.

You would not even be able to receive a refund from a shop without them checking said item was in good condition and not broken.

 

[AmyMay]

In your shoes, I would simply inform the new owners that you are not willing to enter into any further discussion about the horse until they have made him available for you to view and assess. You simply canot make an informed decision about how to proceed until you can assess his living conditions, current stable management, tack fitting, soundness and behaviour under saddle.

Brilliant advice, as ever.

 

[onemoretime]

I cant see why you should take the horse back personally.
Horse passed a 5* vetting and behaved perfectly for new owner then it starts misbehaving and they want you to take it back, why should you be stuck with a horse that is now misbehaving when it wasn't when you sold it,
If 5* vetting done, bloods should be taken to prove no 'dope' used, I agree with either 5* vetting done by your vet at their expense before buying back or you taking the horse on for selling.

Blood only run at purchasers request and expense if problems occur and drugging is suspected. There are drugs out there that can last up to 4 weeks Reserpine is one of them. Im not suggesting that OP has done this though but it has been known.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Quote Originally Posted by ihatework
In your shoes, I would simply inform the new owners that you are not willing to enter into any further discussion about the horse until they have made him available for you to view and assess. You simply canot make an informed decision about how to proceed until you can assess his living conditions, current stable management, tack fitting, soundness and behaviour under saddle.

Brilliant advice, as ever.

Really? But just this morning you stated categorically that the horse isn't broken and to just take him back? : Your words were:
"He's not broken. And I would absolutely take him back."

Very confused, what is your opinion, why has it changed so drastically since this morning?:/

 

[AmyMay]

Really? But just this morning you stated categorically that the horse isn't broken and to just take him back? : Your words were:
"He's not broken. And I would absolutely take him back."

Very confused, what is your opinion, why has it changed so drastically since this morning?:/

My opinion is unchanged.

However, Ihatework will always trump me in the advice steaks - and if there were any question about whose advice someone should take it would be theirs over mine any day.

 

[Zero00000]

Any update OP?

 

[oldie48]

I think these people are behaving appallingly. They've bought a 5 year old, even the sweetest 5 year old can rear or buck if mishandled (they are capable of doing either even when well handled, at 5 they are babies and babies have tantrums) 4 weeks is no time in terms of settling in, i've had mature horses that have been wonderful for the first few weeks then tested the boundaries, I'd expect a young horse to take some time to settle. If they won't let you see the horse, there's nothing you can or should do and frankly I'd tell them you don't have the money sitting in the bank even if you wanted to buy the horse back. As long as you feel you have been honest and straight with them, you have nothing to fear. They tried the horse several times, had it properly vetted and were happy with the horse for the first 4 weeks. Unless you sold it with an option to buy it back if it proved unsuitable, I don't think they have a leg to stand on. However, if you feel concerned for the horse's future well being, then offering to take it back to sell on their behalf but charging schooling livery costs etc, would be a kind and generous offer.

 

[AnyChance]

xxx

 

[AnyChance]

it is most likely she has overhorsed herself and cannot be bothered to sort it out herself! I was overhorsed when I got my last one. I cried a lot, fell off a lot, but I got help and figured it out, and we did battle each other and It did take me a year to trust him and a crazy loanee to wisen him up, but I wasn't after a horse to go out and compete on or anything.

This is exactly what happened with my horse, I bought one that was young and it would buck when it got excited especially with other horses and I fell off alot I had to learn how to sit to it, and eventually how to redirect the energy before it was expelled upwards! I was in tears at one point thinking I would have to sell him after a year or so it didn't worry me as much and we went on to do all sorts so it was all well worth it! I had him until he was PTS from colic at 21

 

[MagicMelon]

Offer to take it back to sell for her? Don't think I could leave a horse in a home where it wasn't happy personally. Its such a silly situation though, too many people seem buy young/green horses expecting them to always be foot perfect...

 

[soulfull]

Actually no, I would refund the full amount minus a 5 stage vetting. I would get that done before you take him back just to be sure that you are not being given back a literally broken horse.

This^^^. And would have the vetting done at their yard. That way there is nothing hidden!

 

[Misha]

Thank you everybody for your comments, the chap is now back home. I don't know as yet what's the problem, but am sure I will get him back to well behave chap he used to be. I have almost forgotten just how gorgeous he is.

 

[Spanny]

I didn't post before, but I wanted to say I'm so glad to hear he's back home OP. The whole thing sounds like a horribly unfair situation that neither you nor the horse deserved. I hope there's not too much wrong and he soon finds a happy home with people who deserve him.

 

[Adopter]

Thank you everybody for your comments, the chap is now back home. I don't know as yet what's the problem, but am sure I will get him back to well behave chap he used to be. I have almost forgotten just how gorgeous he is.

Do let us know when you have had him back a few days how he is, hope you can sort without too much difficulty.

 

[TED2010]

I don't know what you should do. However is there another scenario. The buyer seemed genuine, you saw her ride and handle the horse so presumably she wasn't a complete numpty. Everything was OK to start with and she sent you updates. That does sound possibly genuine. Then the horse flipped, reared, obviously frightened her, may have had her off and turned into a complete monster. Perhaps he did. All the instructor sees now is an utter monster.
There is one thing that I have seen happen that turns a genuine horse into a monster and that is ulcers. I have had one who has got very bad at this time of the year. I have had another that really did stand on his hind legs and go for people. It is not the most obvious thing people look for. No doubt with your experience you would but possibly the buyer has a lot less experience and cannot tell the difference between pain and bad behaviour.
It may not be her fault to a degree. The horse may have been very happy in your "gut frendly" environment. Coped with his routine, no problems. Possibly the move, the travelling, the strange environment, possibly the feeding (maybe you were hi fibre and she is more grain based who knows) everything that has happened has caused an ulcer problem. Maybe in fact no one is really to blame. The horse in the meantime is in a lot of pain and that is why he has turned into a monster not through poor riding or bad handling. Just an idea as to why. Some horses seem to cope with any move, any amount of stress with no problems and then the quietest, most friendly calm individuals cannot manage it. I know as I bought one who was a bit like the one you described. Very genuine and once I resolved his pain that caused his unpleasant behaviour he was back to being a saint. In the meantime he had no choice for his poor behaviour. He was in pain!.

Good point - I believe horses can develop ulcers quite quickly when stressed and put into a different environment. When I bought my My 5 year old which was home bred and had never been off the farm he was born on, he developed grade 4 ulcers despite having lots of turnout, company, high fibre, low starch diet and ad lib Haylage when stabled and a relaxed environment. He hadn't been touched since he was 3 though! He turned into a complete monster and we are still trying to get over it now. Probably isn't that in this case but if they changed his diet and management if is a possible cause to consider ..... unless he has turned into an angel again now he is home, in which case they were just numptys!