Something isn't right?

[ester]

Fingers crossed for horsepital. I agree I would inject now and carry on, it's not going to improve on it's own if just turned out.
As an aside I would make sure his environment is as neck happy as possible, no haynets etc.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

We visited horsey hospital Monday to have his neck medicated. Nearly a hour trip and he loaded ok but was bad to travel (nothing new there, now wondering if this is why)

The vet, Richard, doing the injections was the only one qualified to do it and apparently their top vet at the practice (with BVSc MS(Hons) CertEM (IntMed) DipACVIM MRCVS at the end of his name) He was a absolutely outstanding vet. Full of knowledge and asked him every question i wanted to know.

They re-xrayed his neck with the much more powerful machine than the portable one. Richard went through all his new x-rays thoroughly before medicating him, showing me reports, pictures, comparing Alfies to 'normal neck', the grading scale and all about the spinal cord, neurological, how a outline is painful for horses with arthritic necks etc.

It is slightly worse than we originally thought. Alfies neck is graded a 4 with 1 being 'normal' and 5 the top end of bad. He only has it on 1 vertebra (approx C6/7) right below the kick injury I mentioned previously. Richard thinks hes always had arthritis there (possibly from injury being used as a stallion as a youngster, getting kicked in the lower neck time and time again) but never caused a major problem for him but that kick more recently suddenly caused some inflammation which has caused spinal cord compression and why he feels funny to ride more recently. You can also see from the x-ray (Using Richard's expertise on seeing x-rays like this as it was hard for me to see it if i'm honest) that the arthritis is compressing the spinal cord, actually quite a bit more than we originally thought but to 'prove this 100%' and to see the extent on how much/how badly its compressing on the spinal cord we'd have to CT scan him which would be in excess of £2000. Not worth doing, we know its a problem so the outcome will be the same anyway to medicate it. Its quite surprising as he isn't actually that bad neurological wise, vet expected him to be worse, apart from a odd trip and feeling odd to ride. In my notes I wrote 'feels like his back end is wobbly, not connected?' after hacking him across a field, when the vet asked me to make notes.

Richard explained this problem is always refereed to as 'the horse isn't quite right' (as I described Alfie) but more rare in ponies and cobby types, usually finer bigger horses and over 14 years of age. He did say he treated 2 horses with severe neck arthritis and spinal compression that went on and competed at the RIO Olympics so it isn't always a career changer but can be.

I can ride him in a week, so fingers crossed i'll feel a difference. It will take 2-4 weeks for the arthritis pain to ease off (hopefully) and anything up to 3 months for the spinal cord compression to be reduced as that takes its time.

Everything makes sense now even small things since I backed him mostly like why he knocks the odd pole show jumping and this year suddenly started knocking XC jumps slightly, detests a outline and hates travelling (the breast bar sits right where his arthritis is in his neck) and these things have all gradually got worse.


He was much more forward going to the field this morning and I haven't had to drag him since he had the jabs.. only time will tell. I really hope it isn't career ending as hes a top little pony and only young.

Anyway, i'll update as we go for anyone following and anyone else in the future who has similar problems it may prove a good read as i'd of NEVER expected neck in the beginning.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Just found this update, really interesting reading. I really hope that the treatment works.

*massive vibes for Alfie*

 

[Fanatical]

Really interesting read - thanks fro the updates. Please can I ask which vets you use - they sound very good. I am going through something similar and everyone, including vets, are baffled.

 

[SEL]

Also just seen the update. I might mention neck when I have the 2nd opinion vets out to mine in the new year. She definitely went over with a rider on board before she came to me and I've wondered for a while whether that left her with some damage that has only really come to light as I tried to move on with her ridden career but vets #1 were not convinced. Trouble is she also has PSSM and its easy to blame anything and everything on that.

Well done for persevering with yours. I hope he comes good but at the very least you will know you tried everything you could.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Really interesting read - thanks fro the updates. Please can I ask which vets you use - they sound very good. I am going through something similar and everyone, including vets, are baffled.

Happy to PM you the vets if thats okay.
Going to ride tonight for the first time, just going to do 10 minutes in the school long and low as the vet recommended. He did say it would be better to ride than lunge just make sure he works long and low to build those muscles. No idea how he'll go or feel so fingers crossed. He has suddenly been trotting up the drive to come in and even ran off with me the other day so fingers crossed.

Do mention it SEL worth a look.. vet said neck issues are more common than we think. Have you looked into it possibly being brain or head related? Sounds crazy but my friends mare freaked out when a tractor came past to fast, she bolted, went over backwards and she wasn't right after and a few weeks later started fitting but very mildly. She tried medication but it got worse, was put to sleep a few days later mind this happened a lot faster but it was falling backwards and onto her head that caused it. So so sad.

 

[Ceriann]

So good that you’ve continued to push and got an answer. These issues, where there is nothing obvious are so hard. I have a similar issue with my mare at the minute - not right, canter in left rein is the gait that shows this and she’s sore in her back. Think she’s injured herself having a massive hooley in the field. She’s not lame (vet work up done) so treating for soft tissue injury (bute and muscle relaxer) and we’ll go from there. I will make sure I push for an answer too if not coming right with treatment and rest.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Definitely push if no better Ceriann. She may of pulled a muscle due to over compensating etc. It’s worse when they’re not lame as you can’t see the problem visually, that was the problem with Alfie. One 'top' vet recommended by a friend said 'there is definitely nothing wrong hes just being a typical cob' at the beginning and once I found a good vet for a second opinion he was worth he weight in gold.

UPDATE
Rode Alfie yesterday for the first time in 9 weeks (wow how fast does time go!?) and am following the plan the vets gave to me which said long and low ridden work in the arena and hill work to strengthen him up. The specialist vet said you're better off riding him than lunging with this type of issue.

He was happy, ears pricked forward. I got on him and he was walking at speed around the arena like he use too, we done lots of walking and lots of transitions stand/walk and change of direction on a loose rein encouraging long and low. He kept trying to trot and was rather full of himself but kept him in a walk, he gave a lovely long/low outline with his head just off the ground. I asked for a short trot, his ears pricked forward, 'alf trottt' and we were off. He trotted around rather full of himself so kept changing transitions to get him listening and got some lovely long and low trot work with him working into the bridle from behind. We only done a few strides of canter which was not my choice and purely him deciding hes going to have a canter, which he has not done for several months so thats a improvement alone. I couldn't really get a feel of the canter as didn't want to rush into that yet but he was definitely willing to canter without being asked. I only worked him light for 15/20 minutes and called it a day. He did trip walking back to the yard but the vet did say the spinal cord compression won't improve for 2/3 months and its only been a week.

I now know what the issue is and now can feel why he struggles with bending and tries to flex the wrong way etc, I use to think he was just being awkward. I rode him very soft in the mouth without asking for to much bending.
I'm going to build him up slowly and gradually over the next few months and see how we get on. He really did seem happy with himself after in his stable, which was nice to see and he earned those few mints. I'll update next in January time how we are getting on.

I've attached a picture of the little chap, as I've spoke to much about him but never shared a photo. This was him yesterday, considering hes had some time off, must be 16 weeks since he was in regular work, he doesn't look to bad. (I did clip him out last week hoping he'd come back into work as he was a woolly wild mammoth!)

 

[sportsmansB]

He is just gorgeous.
Well done you for pushing to find out what was really going on. I know all too well what it is like when you know there is an issue with your horse but people think you are being fussy / nutty / don't want to ride. He is lucky to have you

 

[SEL]

He looks lovely and I am so, so glad he is feeling better.

My trimmer was out yesterday and confirmed 100% that my 'not quite right' feeling was not in my head. Its handy having someone come out who has seen your horse regularly for 3 years, but not daily. The first thing she said was - hmmm, what is going on with that flare in those front feet. That's new.

The vet I want out is away for Xmas so I have a feeling my 2019 is going to start with a big vet bill!!!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Nearly a month later so another update.
6 weeks post steriod injections in his neck.

I have only been managing to ride 3 times a week due to work (and having to keep the other one fit). He also had a trim 2 weeks ago, feathers all came off and he was clipped out. His feathers are so thick it does his legs no good, he also gets very scurfy, plus this year we have no mud on the current yard so it was for the best.

He definitely feels better in himself. We have been doing some light hacking and long/low flat work over poles and hill work. It seems we have good and bad days, on the weekend he felt awful, looking all around, not listening, we really didn't have a great session. Yesterday though he went the best hes gone doing 20 minutes flat work long and low. He gave me a lovely in rhythm canter and a lovely low outline feeling him working from behind is a great feeling. To hack hes much happier, now in the open fields he tries to take off (his usual self!) but when asked too he gives a lovely canter or trot across the fields and is quite strong now. Prior to medicating the neck he didn't want to even walk around the field. Hes also started squealing again first thing in the morning when hes ridden, I do think this is a happiness squeal as he does it when hes turned out as well and haven't heard it for years so was lovely to hear.

He is gaining muscle nicely and I have noticed hes gained weight suddenly. I've owned him 5 years he was never a good doer and never held weight like a cob should, hes always been fed alot on ad-lib haylage. In the last week I've noticed (and 2 friends) his ribs are harder to feel, his bellys rounder so have had to reduce his feed by a lot. Nothing has changed bar having his neck medicated so possibly now hes comfortable he won't stress weight off? Not sure.

I'm not sure what i'll do in the future with him, the physio said next month to start with small gridwork to start building him up but i'm terrified due to the location of the arthritis (bottom of neck) it will hurt him. I suppose time will tell if hes happy or not.

So so glad I listened to him. I was having a think and I have about 20 bits in my tack room because he never felt 'happy' in any. Looked at my previous vet notes and I was having his teeth done far to often 2 years ago commenting that hes stiff in the neck to the vet on the notes, as well as having his x-rays in 2016 by 2 vets due to being bad travelling, non even considered anything to be wrong with the neck so its been over looked for a long time.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

UPDATE 8/3/19
Nearly 4 months post steriod medication to neck.

Alfie has been going great up until now. We were getting some lovely long/low work and he was really working nicely. He was happier and his canter felt great, as well as how happy he was. I was pleased to have my old boy back and he is really starting to look good.

He started to struggle in the school, so I started to ride in the big flat open field which he found easier. We would only go in the school once a week for 15 minutes but noticeable it was hard for him. I've been hacking him more to build him up, which he enjoys and fitness improved, we went for a nice hack with friends with a nice canter and short gallop, he loves hacking in groups and bear hes 14.2.. hes at the front leading the ride the entire way. He walks faster than my friends 18.2 and nippy 16.2. As they said, hes a cracking fun pony. We started doing small jumps as the vet said to crack on (hoping to build up the jumping) and I kept my place at camp (in 5 weeks time now) planning to take him as the vet said it would do him good. I was super excited but last week a small (barely 2ft) cross country fence he just didn't lift his front end and he just smashed through it. I started doubting then if we were going forwards and wondering if the steriods were wearing off but tried to remain optimistic thinking he had a bad week or something.

Within the last week more noticeably than ever, I've started to notice hes struggling with things like before diagnosis. Even if asked for a slight bend on either canter he struggles and trots. He is behind the leg again and right canter is almost 4 beat, feels uncomfortable to ride. It feels like it hurts him to lift his front legs up which is why he struggles with canter. He isn't tripping though and can cross his hind legs so the neurological side seems good. He had a updated flu jab a couple of weeks ago so we were planning on going out and about very soon as I know you have to have jabs within 6 months now. Its just small things he feels uncomfortable, he sees the saddle and goes to the back of his stable but more recently he really tenses up.

This morning I done his carrot stretches as we do every other day, he was worse than ever. Took about 5 minutes to get him to flex left and right not much different. I accidentally dropped the carrot on the floor in the field and he actually struggled to pick it up, it was horrible to watch.

The vet is visiting today for my other horse and I've spoken to him over the phone explaining the issues. He said with the problem with the neck, the steriod will last 6-12 months if its mainly neurological issues affecting the horse but if its pain affecting the horse, the steriod will wear off in 3/4 months. Hes going to have a look at him and see if we can do anything to help him. Not feeling very positive to be honest. I think its just hit me quite how serious his neck is (graded 4/5 for 5 being the worst arthritis) and hes just turned 10.

 

[MissP]

Poor Alfie. Listen to him. Don't let him get sad or sour asking for more than he can give right now. I feel for you - it is so hard to see them struggle and we never want to stop trying. Is another injection possible? X

 

[milliepops]

sorry to read your update OP. My horse has similar C4/5 and I've retired her didn't seem to be much point in trying to carry on.
I'm encouraged to read you had a good response to the injections as it's something we have up our sleeve if she starts to show that she's struggling, but I'm sorry you didn't get a longer benefit from them. it must feel pretty gloomy with 2 horses in the wars x

 

[Hormonal Filly]

sorry to read your update OP. My horse has similar C4/5 and I've retired her didn't seem to be much point in trying to carry on.
I'm encouraged to read you had a good response to the injections as it's something we have up our sleeve if she starts to show that she's struggling, but I'm sorry you didn't get a longer benefit from them. it must feel pretty gloomy with 2 horses in the wars x

Its crap, my other gelding who had the PSD operation has a infection in one hind. He had the emergency vet Monday, queue me on the phone in tears thinking he'd done something major serous he could barely get up. He needed it flushed and antibiotics injected daily and he still has the vet visiting daily as hes hopping lame.

Just had non stop bad luck, I don't know if I can even get a refund on camp (that was £290)

 

[milliepops]

surely the camp will take a vet's note? definitely worth a try, often places will at least give a partial if not full refund. fingers crossed for you, at this stage every little helps.

 

[Fiona]

I'm so sorry to hear all your crap news aimeetees 😭😭😭

Hugs x x

Fiona

 

[ester]

You do at least know that you do get good benefit from the steroid injections. Unfortunately that can reduce with subsequent jabs but I'd think injecting at intervals dictated by him would be an option at least for a while if it were viable to you

 

[Hormonal Filly]

You do at least know that you do get good benefit from the steroid injections. Unfortunately that can reduce with subsequent jabs but I'd think injecting at intervals dictated by him would be an option at least for a while if it were viable to you

True, the specialist who injected his neck did say every time you jab it gets less and less effective so they tend to not re inject more than twice a year but I may give him a call and ask his opinion.
He isn't insured and I spent my savings (about £1300) already. Having his neck re injected is around £330 if hes taken to the hospital or around £400 mark if at the yard, If I had the money its worth a try (had constant bad luck with other horse and car going wrong last week)

I'll see what the vet says, if he thinks thats a viable option i'll put it on a credit card.

 

[ester]

I may have missed this but what is his lifestyle? The only one I know of I didn't know the details but he did improve massively when turned out all the time.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I may have missed this but what is his lifestyle? The only one I know of I didn't know the details but he did improve massively when turned out all the time.

Hes out during the day for 12 hours, everyday and in over night, been in the same routine in winter for the last 5 years. He isn't a great doer and can't ever imagine him staying out 24/7, he stands at the gate calling after about 6pm. He would happily live in his entire life, he isn't fussed by going out everyday - swear he isn't normal. Hes out 24/7 in summer unless hes in for a hour on the evening (which he loves)
He is fed from the floor when in, can't think of anything else I can do. Hes on good joint supplements etc. Overall he looks healthy, lovely shiny coat.

 

[oldie48]

I am so sorry to read this, poor Alfie and poor you. What a difficult time you are having. I can't add anything except to say I am thinking about you and wishing you well and both of your horses too.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

The vet visited this evening.

He explained that the steroid injections work for a longer time if it’s neurological issues that are the main problem, but with Alfie it’s more so the pain that’s the issue being the arthritis is 4/5 for 5 being worse possible case. The steroids only help the pain for a few months and wear off much quicker.

He explained we could try re steroid injecting him but it wouldn’t be as affective and only last a few months so it’s your decision.

I didn’t think of it but he had his flu jab not long ago which can give them a stiff neck but doesn’t make sense with the other things such as 4 beat canter coming back.

A friend who last rode him pre diagnosis is going to ride and see what she thinks, it is nice to see someone else ride him.

Going to give the specialist a call Monday that injected his neck as he’s the pro in this area.