vennessa
Well-Known Member
horsemanship... Your views
Something to get you all going - Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks/Intelligent
- Thread starter vennessa
- Start date
*hic*
village idiot :D
Some parts are useful - mainly the parts that are good old-fashioned horsemanship. Some of it is ridiculous hyped-up twaddle.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
Mavis
Well-Known Member
I enjoyed reading the case studies in th Kelly Marks books.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
My Mum bought me a Kelly Marks book. Bit airy fairy in places, but interesting in others.
A lot of it is just common sense.
A lot of it is just common sense.
bhpride
Well-Known Member
Can't fault it myself! Anything that encourages good horsemanship is good enough for me. Can't think of anything bad anyone could say about it, sure someone will though!
JessPickle
Well-Known Member
Monty roberts I went to see and thought it was really good. Kelly marks was there and to be honest she was absulute rubbish, she was lunging with two lines in a demo and got the lines twisted between horses legs, so proceeded to drop them on the ground while attached to horse to sort out!!! then she did a display with her horses where he was supposed to run into his dually halter, he just ran around and around until finally they cornered him!
EquestrianFairy
Well-Known Member
Some are good, some bad...
I dont do any of the stuff, ie, none of my horses are barefoot/bitless/treeless but thats because its not what i prefer to do. Matter of choices thats all.
I have a browse on there Forum and post every now and then if im lookig for advice as sometimes threads on here can get 'lost' with there being so many threads being posted.
Each to their own.
I dont do any of the stuff, ie, none of my horses are barefoot/bitless/treeless but thats because its not what i prefer to do. Matter of choices thats all.
I have a browse on there Forum and post every now and then if im lookig for advice as sometimes threads on here can get 'lost' with there being so many threads being posted.
Each to their own.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some parts are useful - mainly the parts that are good old-fashioned horsemanship. Some of it is ridiculous hyped-up twaddle.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. What she said
Some parts are useful - mainly the parts that are good old-fashioned horsemanship. Some of it is ridiculous hyped-up twaddle.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. What she said
genie
Well-Known Member
I took a mare to see Richard Maxwell a few years ago. She was used as a demonstartion horse.I learned so much with this mare that has proved invaluable with ongoing stuff with her and also other difficult horses that have come our way.
I was very sceptical before I went.thought it was just a load of twaddle and hype...saw with my own eyes and learned so much.
What I learned on the demonstration was just an eye opener for more serious stuff with my mare....it was the key to unlocking the door so to speak. If Richard Maxwell or Monty Roberts etc were available and nearer to me, I would definitely go and learn some more from them.
I was very sceptical before I went.thought it was just a load of twaddle and hype...saw with my own eyes and learned so much.
What I learned on the demonstration was just an eye opener for more serious stuff with my mare....it was the key to unlocking the door so to speak. If Richard Maxwell or Monty Roberts etc were available and nearer to me, I would definitely go and learn some more from them.
SmokingBabe
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some parts are useful - mainly the parts that are good old-fashioned horsemanship. Some of it is ridiculous hyped-up twaddle.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. What she said
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto
[ QUOTE ]
Some parts are useful - mainly the parts that are good old-fashioned horsemanship. Some of it is ridiculous hyped-up twaddle.
Take it with a pinch of salt and apply only that which improves your relationship with horses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. What she said
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto
chickeninabun
Well-Known Member
Am going to a Monty Roberts demo @ Bishop Burton in October and am really looking forward to it, but will definately be taking some of the more extreme stuff with a pinch of salt.
BigBird146
Well-Known Member
Hmm, don't know much about Kelly Marks, I quite like Monty Roberts but I don't like the dually halter as it's supposed to release the pressure and it just doesn't. I like Richard Maxwell best of these 3 I think as he's not so gimicky.
I agree that you pick the best bits that apply to your situation. My horse is quite arrogant and stubborn and nh methods work far better on him then trying to 'show him who's boss'.... he'd fight to the death rather than be forced into anything.
I agree that you pick the best bits that apply to your situation. My horse is quite arrogant and stubborn and nh methods work far better on him then trying to 'show him who's boss'.... he'd fight to the death rather than be forced into anything.
cosmo_sam
Well-Known Member
My own experience with it started when George was a problem loader and I bought a dually and got my local RA - Emma Halliburton out and we all never looked back.
Other than watching demo's I had little real understanding of the methods though and so having got a bit sick of having my head turned left and right with the verbal tennis that goes on on forums about it I decided to do the 1 week foundation course to find out for myself. I trained with Kelly and Linda Ruffle and they were both very interesting and thought provoking people. Neither claimed to be perfect and the week was more about concepts and ways of thinking round issues than any doctrine of right and wrong.
I personally had a fantastic week and learned for the first time how powerful managing my energy levels was. I was familiar with the dually and so I built on that a little and I came away with an open mind as to how to move on with George and Dragon.
I must admit that I can take or leave the two line lunging depending on the horse as I lunge with very little contact on the line anyway and work more from positioning/body language, but I do believe it a better option than the "stand in the middle like a maypole" method most lunge by.
Other than watching demo's I had little real understanding of the methods though and so having got a bit sick of having my head turned left and right with the verbal tennis that goes on on forums about it I decided to do the 1 week foundation course to find out for myself. I trained with Kelly and Linda Ruffle and they were both very interesting and thought provoking people. Neither claimed to be perfect and the week was more about concepts and ways of thinking round issues than any doctrine of right and wrong.
I personally had a fantastic week and learned for the first time how powerful managing my energy levels was. I was familiar with the dually and so I built on that a little and I came away with an open mind as to how to move on with George and Dragon.
I must admit that I can take or leave the two line lunging depending on the horse as I lunge with very little contact on the line anyway and work more from positioning/body language, but I do believe it a better option than the "stand in the middle like a maypole" method most lunge by.
cosmo_sam
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
horsemanship... Your views
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wonderin...why do you ask?
horsemanship... Your views
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wonderin...why do you ask?
vennessa
Well-Known Member
I dare say what i was dieing to say then. Monty and Kelly are sponsoring our show
I couldn't believe my eyes when i got a personal email from Kelly. I was so excited i couldn't sleep. I have been dieing to tell the world. The local Recomended associate has known me years and they actaually talk about me and our charity. They think i do a wonderful job
I am soooo proud.
I met Monty last year at Arena u.k. I am normally quiet but i didn't shut up or take a breath for Monty to speak. He listened and said i was doing a great job - i was discussing some of our horses
I don't do join up but the body language is what Florin taught me many years ago before i had even heard of Monty.
I spent the whole day their mingling and watching him on his horse. It was amazeing.
I am shocked they remembered me. They are sponsoring our show to help us raise funds
The local recommended associate is attneding
I am bursting with pride
I was scared to say because i am dreading the horrible remarks.
I couldn't believe my eyes when i got a personal email from Kelly. I was so excited i couldn't sleep. I have been dieing to tell the world. The local Recomended associate has known me years and they actaually talk about me and our charity. They think i do a wonderful job
I met Monty last year at Arena u.k. I am normally quiet but i didn't shut up or take a breath for Monty to speak. He listened and said i was doing a great job - i was discussing some of our horses
I spent the whole day their mingling and watching him on his horse. It was amazeing.
I am shocked they remembered me. They are sponsoring our show to help us raise funds
The local recommended associate is attneding
I am bursting with pride
I was scared to say because i am dreading the horrible remarks.
bhpride
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I dare say what i was dieing to say then. Monty and Kelly are sponsoring our show
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I think that's great well done!
I dare say what i was dieing to say then. Monty and Kelly are sponsoring our show
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's great well done!
somethingorother
Well-Known Member
A few years ago i loved anything like Monty Roberts and thought he was the god of horses and such like. As i look into these things more i think i'm learning to pick out the bits of different approaches that i like and dont like. I'm liking Parelli less and less also. I've been to demonstrations by Monty roberts, Kelly marks and Richard Maxwel (who i preffer out of the three) and my current favourite is http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/alexander_nevzorov.php
Although i wish the methods were more accessible, i would love to work with that guy
It's like magic, i cant figure out how he does it to that extent- check it out and you'l understand hopefully.
I used to get shunned at the yard for using these techniques and not hitting the horses and trying to understand why they behaved in certain ways. I'm really glad that nh methods are becoming more popular, for the most part its better than many popular methods eg hitting a horse up the A*se with a brush until it will load.
Although i wish the methods were more accessible, i would love to work with that guy
I used to get shunned at the yard for using these techniques and not hitting the horses and trying to understand why they behaved in certain ways. I'm really glad that nh methods are becoming more popular, for the most part its better than many popular methods eg hitting a horse up the A*se with a brush until it will load.
cosmo_sam
Well-Known Member
Aw well congratulations!!
If you're proud I'd shout it from the roof tops!
I know it's not everone's favourite topic, but I wouldn't let any negativity spoil what you've achieved
Keep us posted (by PM if you feel the need to stay under the radar!
)
I know it's not everone's favourite topic, but I wouldn't let any negativity spoil what you've achieved
Keep us posted (by PM if you feel the need to stay under the radar!
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Something to learn from everything really, no one knows it all, you pick what you find useful for your own situation from the melting pot, not just IH, NH, EE, BHS, PC etc, etc, etc. Horsemanship and Common Sense are the same whatever flag you wave over them. Basically, I don't give a hoot what tack other people do or don't ride in, whether their horse wears rugs, shoes, plastic boots, lives in or out, not my horse, not my business, so unless there is a welfare/safety issue going on I keep my thoughts to myself. Being a normal human being though, I am very nosey and do like to know what other people do, so I can't resist reading these books etc.
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
teabiscuit
Well-Known Member
well done them and you
fab stuff!
bhpride
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you a VIOLENT HORSE BEATER????? You are aren't you ?!! *gasp*
only joking
sorry couldn't resist
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you a VIOLENT HORSE BEATER????? You are aren't you ?!! *gasp*
vennessa
Well-Known Member
I do look and learn from wherever also. What i found interesting was i was doing a lot of what Monty does before i had even heard about it. I haven't read a book yet. I learn mainly from our horses. Florin taught me an awful lot. When the horse whisperer came out people asked if i was a horse whisperer. I stll say i am a horse listener. I listen with my eyes if that makes sense. I think thats why i got on so well with Monty and unknowingly i am a talking point. I would never do join up or many things because thats not right for me personally.
I understand what you mean by kicking etc. I don't stand for it. We took in a mare that went for me both barrels. I can become big and scary when i want and i went at her and sent her forward and wouldn't let her stop until i was ready even when she was tired i made her keep going. She never tried again. I told Monty that and then thought 'should i have told him that' but he said i did the right thing in the situation.
We have 20 horses now and non are agressive, bargy etc. Apart from the instance of my old mare knocking the gate off its hinges to get the trial feed.
They are all happy relaxes lovable horses. But thats my thing. Ask me to ride and i am useless. I watch dressage and wish i could do it. But i do love what i do.
Its a real honour for me for us to be sponsored by them. People are going to hate me as i will tell everyone
I haven't found anyone that understand my meaning of listening with your eyes other than Monty which is why i thoroughly enjoyed talking to him - or at him
I understand what you mean by kicking etc. I don't stand for it. We took in a mare that went for me both barrels. I can become big and scary when i want and i went at her and sent her forward and wouldn't let her stop until i was ready even when she was tired i made her keep going. She never tried again. I told Monty that and then thought 'should i have told him that' but he said i did the right thing in the situation.
We have 20 horses now and non are agressive, bargy etc. Apart from the instance of my old mare knocking the gate off its hinges to get the trial feed.
They are all happy relaxes lovable horses. But thats my thing. Ask me to ride and i am useless. I watch dressage and wish i could do it. But i do love what i do.
Its a real honour for me for us to be sponsored by them. People are going to hate me as i will tell everyone
I haven't found anyone that understand my meaning of listening with your eyes other than Monty which is why i thoroughly enjoyed talking to him - or at him
vennessa
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you a VIOLENT HORSE BEATER????? You are aren't you ?!! *gasp*
only joking
sorry couldn't resist
[/ QUOTE ]
I had to laugh at that
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I have a bit of a problem with is punishment, or rather, spur of the moment reactions if you prefer. Sorry, but if I have a horse that is attempting to chew my arm off, kick my teeth in or having a go at another horse then I am not going to fanny around talking to the culprit about his feelings/reasons for it at that precise moment in time and you can bet your boots that any of the 'names' don't just stand there and ask "What's the matter sweetie?" with a set of teeth or pair of feet heading their way either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you a VIOLENT HORSE BEATER????? You are aren't you ?!! *gasp*
[/ QUOTE ]
I had to laugh at that
vennessa
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
well done them and you
fab stuff!
[/ QUOTE ]
Thankyou
well done them and you
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Thankyou
Madasmaz
Well-Known Member
I think there is a danger that novice owners think these techniques will solve all their problems if they do it parrot fashion. There is very little in the demos about reading the horses actions and learning how to interpret them before you even start to try and resolve issues. Who out there teaches common horse sense? I think it would be far better for people to start off with something like the horse owners certificate, and tehn progress to the the Harry Potter world of Parelli or Monty Roberts. Before I get lambasted...I have done level one of MR in New Zealand, as for Parelli..I'm just not that rich!
Angua2
Well-Known Member
I have found that keeping quiet and eyes and ears open is a great teacher.
ultimatly it is all the same thing, but reprocessed and repackaged. Re worded so that if you don't understand it one way you may the other. there are aspects to each that I have found useful and I pick an choose and make sure that I have the"right tool for the job" if you will excuse the analogy. The end result is I hope well balanced, happy horses
ultimatly it is all the same thing, but reprocessed and repackaged. Re worded so that if you don't understand it one way you may the other. there are aspects to each that I have found useful and I pick an choose and make sure that I have the"right tool for the job" if you will excuse the analogy. The end result is I hope well balanced, happy horses
Rana
Well-Known Member
Congrats SF, that's great news!
I would only comment on my personal experience of IH methods....
My horse was severely abused before I got her - she was a rescue case, deemed dangerous. In fact, she was incredibly frightened, and when she didn't feel threatened, was just nervous and stand offish. Having owned her for 4 winter months, she got some spring grass inside her and decided she didn't humans for anything.
3 months later, I was at my wits end - seriously considering having her darted and PTS. I hadn't caught her in all of that time, her shoes were hanging on by a thread, she hadn't been wormed, checked, nothing.
Then I heard about Monty Roberts. I dragged my Dad along to the field with me, and we created a small herd in the field - me with my other ponies, and Dad acting as "boss", keeping Rana away.
Each day, she developed more confidence, and after 6 weeks, I could catch her regularly. 12 years on, she still has the odd day when I can't catch her for love nor money, but only ever in the summer, when the weathers nice (and who can blame her!!).
Without Monty Roberts' methods, I don't know what I would have done. I don't think they're the be all, end all. And I will still slap her one on the shoulder if she's being ultra cheeky.
Experience with other horses, is that they can often be bargy, especially with people not using IH methods. It's like they respect that, but nothing else.
And as with everything, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A kid at our yard recently went to catch Rana in for me, and proceeded to chase her "because that's what you do, chase them so they come back". Hmm, well it's a bit more complex than that!
I would only comment on my personal experience of IH methods....
My horse was severely abused before I got her - she was a rescue case, deemed dangerous. In fact, she was incredibly frightened, and when she didn't feel threatened, was just nervous and stand offish. Having owned her for 4 winter months, she got some spring grass inside her and decided she didn't humans for anything.
3 months later, I was at my wits end - seriously considering having her darted and PTS. I hadn't caught her in all of that time, her shoes were hanging on by a thread, she hadn't been wormed, checked, nothing.
Then I heard about Monty Roberts. I dragged my Dad along to the field with me, and we created a small herd in the field - me with my other ponies, and Dad acting as "boss", keeping Rana away.
Each day, she developed more confidence, and after 6 weeks, I could catch her regularly. 12 years on, she still has the odd day when I can't catch her for love nor money, but only ever in the summer, when the weathers nice (and who can blame her!!).
Without Monty Roberts' methods, I don't know what I would have done. I don't think they're the be all, end all. And I will still slap her one on the shoulder if she's being ultra cheeky.
Experience with other horses, is that they can often be bargy, especially with people not using IH methods. It's like they respect that, but nothing else.
And as with everything, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A kid at our yard recently went to catch Rana in for me, and proceeded to chase her "because that's what you do, chase them so they come back". Hmm, well it's a bit more complex than that!
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Are you a VIOLENT HORSE BEATER????? You are aren't you ?!! *gasp*
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. twice daily, three times on a Sunday, I have a whip for each horse!
My horses are petrified of me. Not!
vennessa
Well-Known Member
When i started to read i was nearly crying out oh no don't. I am so glad you worked through it. Florin was going to be darted before i got her.
I know what you mean about people ;thinking' they can do it. A couple of teenagers were supposed to have been helping me last year.
I went down one afternoon to find them chaseing one of the horses around the field. I was livid to put it mildly. When i asked what they were doing they said 'Join up' Join up i nearly joined them both up with the rope by there necks. they never came back again. I no longer have helpers either.
I know what you mean about people ;thinking' they can do it. A couple of teenagers were supposed to have been helping me last year.
I went down one afternoon to find them chaseing one of the horses around the field. I was livid to put it mildly. When i asked what they were doing they said 'Join up' Join up i nearly joined them both up with the rope by there necks. they never came back again. I no longer have helpers either.
gloster_image
Well-Known Member
I think pick and choose what you use from it and it can be very helpful on certain horses as long as its used with common sense. Richard Maxwell is a favourite of mine as he implements all sorts of different approaches.
Some horses respond to it, some don't. My mare was booked in to be shot as noone could break her in (she was dangerous, this was before i came on the scene). She was broken in using monty roberts methods and we used this method for the first 6months and it worked wonders. However, 18months on and shes a cheeky girl, and now if i were to use that method she would take the mick. She now responds to discipline - when she does anything naughty she gets a smack and behaves, but 18months ago this wasn't the case.
The IH methods are really handy when horses are scared and have had bad experiences with people as a way of gaining their trust again.
Basically i assess the horse and use whatever method works for that horse - they are all unique.
Some horses respond to it, some don't. My mare was booked in to be shot as noone could break her in (she was dangerous, this was before i came on the scene). She was broken in using monty roberts methods and we used this method for the first 6months and it worked wonders. However, 18months on and shes a cheeky girl, and now if i were to use that method she would take the mick. She now responds to discipline - when she does anything naughty she gets a smack and behaves, but 18months ago this wasn't the case.
The IH methods are really handy when horses are scared and have had bad experiences with people as a way of gaining their trust again.
Basically i assess the horse and use whatever method works for that horse - they are all unique.