Sorry, how much? again...

[soloequestrian]

I've posted about this horse before, but things have changed so I'm interested to know what people think he would fetch in the current market:
16/16.1hh Hannovarian x TB gelding, 11 years old.
Had two years off before I bought him due to owners ill health. I've had him 18 months.
Nice person to deal with on the ground. Ridden he was nappy but we seem to have finally sorted that out (with an exceptionally wide saddle). He is lovely to hack alone. I haven't tried in company but think he would enjoy it - he is a very sensible sort. I haven't hacked on the road because I don't have to but he is used to all sorts of vehicles (field right alongside road and we pass all sorts on the farm track). In the school he is still switching between stuffy (hangover from being nappy) to really quite nice - when he relaxes his paces are great. He doesn't want to canter in the school yet but it feels close now the napping has gone. He canters nicely out on a hack and okay on the lunge so we are getting there - hope to have cracked that in the next couple of weeks.
No competition record and I won't be trying to get one.
Part of me thinks I should keep him but he's never felt like 'my' horse and I think he could make someone else very happy.
Thoughts appreciated (again, sorry).

 

[Annagain]

In the current climate you could almost name your price and find someone to pay it!

On a serious note, I paid £8k 8 months ago for 6yr old who hacks beautifully alone and in company, doesn't get strong and doesn't look at anything. He has the sweetest temperament, is green on the flat but jumps nicely - struggles with canter until you put a fence in front of him! Given yours is a bit older but hasn't really done more and has the napping problem (which might return) I'd say about £6,000 - £6,500. Something easy and reliable out hacking is what 99% of people want so that's in his favour.

 

[soloequestrian]

Thanks for your reply, that's encouraging!
I think I have titled this thread badly - lots of views but just the one response!

 

[ihatework]

I can only caution you to be careful, because this is the type of horse a naive buyer could go for and it all go to pot pretty quickly.

I would make a significant effort to really test him out hacking. That means also making sure, proving he is good in company and on the roads. Then I’d sell him to a more experienced rider specifically looking for a nice hack who doesn’t want a chunky cob type.

I’m afraid, in my mind, this horse has little value (3k ish), but the market is crazy at the moment so I’m sure you will get more

 

[oldie48]

I'm with ihatework on this, he does sound like the sort that would go "wrong" in right hands. Is he school sour, I'm just a bit confused as to why he won't canter in the school?? I wouldn't want to sell him until he is happily working there as well and I'd want to be certain that there were no pain issues. Value wise, I have no idea. It would depend on a lot of things that are not discussed here.

 

[Widgeon]

I can only caution you to be careful, because this is the type of horse a naive buyer could go for and it all go to pot pretty quickly....I’d sell him to a more experienced rider specifically looking for a nice hack who doesn’t want a chunky cob type.

Agree with this, it sounds like your problem might be finding the right home who will carry on educating him and not let him down. Given how the market is at the moment, could you put the word out among your contacts that he's looking for a new home? That might give you the chance to vet potential homes a bit more than if you just advertise. You might not get as much for him, but you should still get good money and you'd know you'd done the best you could by him.

 

[J&S]

I can't see huge value in this horse either. No "potential"! But, as a sound horse to hack and do fun rides with I expect he could be worth in the £3,000 ( ono) mark these days.

 

[tristar]

like you say he will shortly be cantering in the school,

i have had horses like this, stuffy but when relaxed will work nicely, he is about to get there with canter and sounds like you are doing a great job with him,

i hope you finish him off and before making a decision , he knows you and you understand what he needs to get there and have the best chance of finding the right person if you do sell

 

[holeymoley]

I think potentially in this climate he could go for around 6k as a really nice riding club all rounder, safe hacking type, however why does he not want to canter in the school? As you have described him just now, with that in mind he could easily go for much less.

ETA- prices are silly money now. When I bought my guy you could get a nice all rounder at riding club level for about £2500k and even then it would’ve been something fairly well put together.

 

[tristar]

cantering out hacking and cantering in the school are two different questions, the second harder for a horse not used to it

 

[Dexter]

If this is the one with suspected PSSM then the resale value is zero. The canter may well improve over time, but they can deteriorate at any time. Its a degenerative condition and they dont make old bones with type 2. Most dont even stay sound and in a normal level of work sadly

 

[Birker2020]

Is he school sour, I'm just a bit confused as to why he won't canter in the school?? .

This was my question too. He wouldn't be much good to anyone if he can't/won't canter in the school. What exactly does 'doesn't want to' equate to? Spitting dummy out of the pram? Or doesn't understand what is being asked? Or just he hasn't the physique to? Does he canter on the lunge or loose schooled?

 

[soloequestrian]

I'm pretty sure all the problems he had when he arrived were a combination of a very uncomfortable saddle and a rider who was nervous of him. He is VERY sensitive to saddle fit and if he even imagines that something might get uncomfortable he will start napping. In a very wide saddle with appropriate padding he was comfortable most of the time but still did stopping and stamping every now and then. I've recently put an even wider gullet in the saddle (the purple million X wide one) and he is noticeably better - he still stops occasionally but I can ride through it because he's soft rather than going solid. The cantering in the school thing is all linked to this - he's worried. We took a while to get cantering on hacks and he is great now, though much better left than right. In the school he is starting to think he might be able to canter ridden - previously when I asked he had a giant strop but now he is sort of experimenting. He canters well on the lunge to the left, struggles a bit with lead to the right but that's a work in progress and he's getting better.
Someone suggested he might be PSSM and I suppose he might be but the saddle seems to explain the symptoms.
I would be very rigorous when finding a home for him - I hope that the current market might facilitate that because there just aren't many horses around so in theory I should have a choice for him. He wouldn't go to anything other than an experienced (and, insofar as I could tell, kind) home.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You've had him for 18 months and he hasn't yet cantered in the school, hacked out on the road or gone out in company?

Not wanting to canter in the school is a big red flag - quite possibly due to pain eg PSD.

Low end price as of now.

 

[chaps89]

Has he had any proper vet workups to establish if there's underlying issues?
I seem to recall you've had him a while and whilst I appreciate some horses do just take time, as a buyer I would be very put off by still being unable to canter in the school and a tendency towards napping.
If I understood your original post correctly, you've had him for 18 months and he was turned away for 2 years prior - I'd be amazed if he still had back/saddle issues or a hangover from a nervous rider after that amount of time off. I'd also want to know why he was turned away in the first place.
I'd only be interested at a project price and if there had been a vet work up done personally, sorry.

 

[L&M]

In the current climate you could almost name your price and find someone to pay it!

On a serious note, I paid £8k 8 months ago for 6yr old who hacks beautifully alone and in company, doesn't get strong and doesn't look at anything. He has the sweetest temperament, is green on the flat but jumps nicely - struggles with canter until you put a fence in front of him! Given yours is a bit older but hasn't really done more and has the napping problem (which might return) I'd say about £6,000 - £6,500. Something easy and reliable out hacking is what 99% of people want so that's in his favour.

£6000 - £6500?!!! Blooming heck, on that basis my 'go anywhere/do anything' little cob is probably worth around £15,000!

I was going to say around £2000 - £3000 on the information given but am obviously well out of touch with the current horse market......

 

[soloequestrian]

Grateful for all the time put into comments but I am a bit confused about why I'd do a full vet workup on a fully sound horse who is getting substantially better now he's in a saddle he likes! He has been tricky and I have thought about selling him on as a project in the more frustrating moments, but 18 months doesn't seem that long to resolve issues that I was struggling to get to the bottom of. The saddle combination he has now is quite unusual and he will be sold with it - he actually did a sort of little 'ooh that's nice' move when I put it on him, although I didn't want to over-interpret that at the time. And I'm talking about minor adjustments in the saddle - it's a HM Flexee and we went from the yellow gullet to the purple gullet with appropriate padding Balance style and that's what made the difference. It was definitely a learning experience for me!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Grateful for all the time put into comments but I am a bit confused about why I'd do a full vet workup on a fully sound horse who is getting substantially better now he's in a saddle he likes! He has been tricky and I have thought about selling him on as a project in the more frustrating moments, but 18 months doesn't seem that long to resolve issues that I was struggling to get to the bottom of. The saddle combination he has now is quite unusual and he will be sold with it - he actually did a sort of little 'ooh that's nice' move when I put it on him, although I didn't want to over-interpret that at the time. And I'm talking about minor adjustments in the saddle - it's a HM Flexee and we went from the yellow gullet to the purple gullet with appropriate padding Balance style and that's what made the difference. It was definitely a learning experience for me!

Have you thought of paying a pro to ride him a few times a week just to help you get through the canter problem? I had canter problems with one of mine and he was a bit backward thinking and I struggled a bit, I got my instructor to school him twice a week and it transformed him and I found him much easier, I now know a lot of the issues was my crap riding his the type of horse that doesn't forgive sloppy aids so it actually made me ride better.

Just wanted to say I am not saying you can't ride properly just a thought and sharing my experience

 

[chaps89]

I suggested a vet work up because, presuming he had his saddle sorted sooner rather than later (and I appreciate that may not be the case and it may have taken some time if he was tricky to fit) 18 months of re-schooling is quite a long time to still not be cantering under saddle in the school, and because soft tissue issues would usually show on the soft more than out and about hacking. The napping may have come from being allowed to get away with it from a previous nervous owner, or again it could be a pain thing. Likewise, he could have been turned away for 2 years due to a physical issue and so maybe he should be checked again? Equally if he still has trouble after 2 years off, that would be worrisome to me.
Maybe I'm just ultra cautious, and he's fine, just got the upper hand of previous owner and you've taken your time and done everything properly.
I can only go off this and your previous posts though and so am only giving you my perspective based on what we have - maybe just something to bear in mind about how a potential buyer might think

 

[Dexter]

Someone suggested he might be PSSM and I suppose he might be but the saddle seems to explain the symptoms.

You did a post saying you'd put him on vitamin e after someone mentioned it and it had sorted his issues didnt you? If it wasnt you it was an almost identical story. I only remember as sadly PSSM is something I have a lot of experience of, so it does stick in my mind

 

[soloequestrian]

Yes, I tried Vit E after that suggestion but it coincided roughly with the saddle change (not good experimental method I know). He's off the Vit E now and still fine. I'll probably put them all on Vit E next year though because I read that it declines in forage over time and they'll be on two-year old haylage again next year.
I am planning to pay someone to ride him a couple of times but more to see how he reacts to a new rider. This is guesswork, but I think perhaps he was ridden occasionally by someone strong and confident when he was uncomfy in his saddle so I don't want to put someone on who will push further than I do. I'm quite happy pottering towards canter, I haven't got a particular timescale to work to.
It's hard to give his full history on here but he was fully checked out health-wise before his two year gap and nothing was found. He was badly behaved, his rider was scared but didn't want to sell him on the open market. When I lost one of mine (cancer), a friend who knew him well introduced me to his owner.
Still happy to have suggestions for a sale figure - even if I just go through word of mouth I want a good idea of where to start his pricing!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Actually nothing for an 11 yo horse that won't canter in the school after 18 months of retraining, because IME that is a veterinary issue that may be a biggie.

 

[Spirit2021]

I feel there is more to this story .

 

[soloequestrian]

Of course there is more to the story - I haven't given a blow-by-blow account of the past 18 months. There is nothing sinister though which is what seems to be being implied and is quite unpleasant. I'm actually really chuffed with what I've achieved with him - he used to be anxious and sometimes aggressive, now he is a happy chap with one remaining issue that feels close to being sorted. I didn't have any specific goal when I took him on and he's turned into something I'm proud of and I think would make the right person very happy. What I'm getting from this is that I need to get the canter going before I think about advertising which is helpful - I'm as certain as I can be that he's worried and there is no physical issue. He just thinks something is going to hurt because it did in the past and so he's not that keen to try. I wish I was more confident jumping because I think a jump might 'trick' him into canter and then he'd find it was comfy. I'm a total wuss at jumping though.

 

[HBB]

Have you travelled him out to anywhere? A lesson/clinic/arena hire?

 

[irishdraft]

I wouldn't pay anything for an 11 year old that appears to only be able to hack on his own . Not a horse for me personally to have fun on .

 

[Spottyappy]

Personally, while I wouldn’t choose to knowingly buy a horse with PSSM, as he seems like he is a happy hacker (should he have that), I don’t think it would put people off in the current market, as safe happy hackers aren’t very easily found.
if he doesn’t have PSSm, I think you would easily get £6500-£8000 in the current market.
with it, probably nearer £3500/£4000.

 

[FlyingCircus]

To be honest, I think his value would be more project money 1.5k - 2k max. He doesn't sound like a fun hack if he is still occasionally nappy.

 

[Tagoat]

I'm with Tiddlypom & irishdraft on this.

An 11yo that doesn't/won't/can't canter ? (after 18months schooling!)
Not proven to hack road wise or with company?

Of little value.

 

[SusieT]

Sounds to me like he has a pain issue. Have you had a vet work up? I woudln't pay anything as the description screams horse in pain to me