amandap
Well-Known Member
Although somewhat limited in number of horses I am an avid horse watcher and I have never observed a horse bite another under the jaw.
Sorry..Parelli again! Do you think some of it is cruel?
- Thread starter Parker79
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Enfys
Well-Known Member
I spend way too much time watching horses, playing - not fighting though. I've only seen real fights a couple of times and then it was all about getting their opponent lower than them, lots of leg and neck biting.
My colts nip their playmates anywhere they can get hold of, legs, ears, cheeks, mouths, jaw, tails, you name it. They appear to favour fleshy parts like lips and noses rather than boney bits on the whole though.
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amandap
Well-Known Member
He he great pic. I don't do colts, youngsters or stallions much. Lol I should have made it clear that I don't observe any biting under the jaw as a reprimand or motivational stimulus.I spend way too much time watching horses, playing - not fighting though. I've only seen real fights a couple of times and then it was all about getting their opponent lower than them, lots of leg and neck biting.
My colts nip their playmates anywhere they can get hold of, legs, ears, cheeks, mouths, jaw, tails, you name it.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Our boys spend all day doing it. They range from teens to thirties so it's not just for the youngsters and stallions!! I have never seen it as a reprimand though, only fun and winding each other up.
Pan
Pan
Enfys
Well-Known Member
I should have made it clear that I don't observe any biting under the jaw as a reprimand or motivational stimulus.
No, I agree, I've never seen that either.
I was watching Boss mare going to water last night, there were 8 other mares in her way, she simply pinned her ears and walked on through, it was like the parting of the waves
There is one stroppy little wannabe filly (3 year old) and she sometimes refuses to move until she gets a pair of teeth in whatever part of her is closest. Her backside looks pretty moth eaten.Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I've noticed that the whole behavior thing falls apart with some horses tho. In our herd, my mare is a classic example of an alpha mare, whilst daughters pony is at the bottom. However mare is ponys adoptive mum & is the only one she actually respects. She'll move out of the way of the others but by virtue of being extremely quick, will run back & nip them, not playfully, then go round alpha mare for protection. None of the others have a hope of catching her so she only really fakes submission. She does have a young playmate, so its not boredom, & at rising 5 its more noticeable than as a youngster. She had a terrible first year which explains it, but it begs the question would she have any respect for a parelli trainer? She's actually a sweetie with people, & likes to please daughter & me as long as you ask. But I'd love to know how she'd react if someone tried to dominate her into behaving. I think she'd fight to exhaustion, & even then not truly submit.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I often have to explain to people out hunting that my older dressage horse is a vampire Amanda
He leaves the others with, quite literally, blood on their throats at times. He is a terrible coward and bottom of the pack, and this is his way of getting his own back, I think!
fburton
Well-Known Member
She would be made to have respect - whatever it takes.
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
Fburton- that's exactly what I fear, & i'm sure there are others like her. Don't get me wrong she's safely handled by a 7 yr old, but i've witnessed her reaction to people who are unnecessarily dominant & think she'd be half dead before she gave in.
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
Amy567 Didn't you try the carrot trick,when you took your mare out to the field,always found it works wonders, as a couple of carrots given to horse while either taking headcollar off or just getting them through the gate and they stand,have done it for years and non Parelli. I cann't understand why sensible people put their faith in this person, ect for Tinypony as they seem to think the sunshines out of their you know what. Always come down to basic commonsense,standing back and looking at you,your pony and how you handle and not be afraid to ask someone.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Echo Brave, I don't think you have read my (many!) posts. I don't put my faith in Parelli, I am very much against the system. Which is why I point out the downsides (learnt by first-hand experience) when threads like this come up. However, to be fair, I can normally find something useful in most approaches to horse training (not all, tight side reins and Rolkur being a couple that spring to mind, oh and flash nosebands...), so I will sometimes mention anything positive I found from Parelli as well.
The video link I posted shows Honza Blaha, an EX Parelli trainer who has moved on. I have some doubts about his approach as well, but have to say that the attitude of his horses looks much nicer than many Parelli liberty horses I've seen. Even then, there are some Parelli students as FBurton says, who just seem to get it right without overdoing the worst of the system, and their horses can look great.
I am definitely an nh-style horse person, but that doesn't mean I use Parelli.
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Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
Well I'd like to say Laurawheeler the red roan Herbie you've done him well girl very impressed. Tinypony yes I have read many of your posts, but I still remember you sticking up for their methods when a lot of people were upset about his methods and this was well before Catwalk(what happened to this horse).
amandap
Well-Known Member
Ah, throats are different to under jaws. You're right, I bet he is a vampire!I often have to explain to people out hunting that my older dressage horse is a vampire Amanda
Curry is ready. Yum.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
As i said earlier i wouldnt have anyone who was trained parelli or anyone by monty roberts/kelly marks etc. They charge stupid amounts of money for no help or to make your horse worse.
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Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Trying to give a balanced view is very different to "sticking up" for someone. Unlike many here I have the advantage of knowing the Parelli system from long experience, and also from working for Parelli. I've met Pat and Linda and seen him work with horses many times. I've seen him behave in a way that I thought was terrible to a horse (and I walked out and made my feelings known), and I've also seen him act with great kindness and patience with another. Very contradictory to me. Pat and Linda aren't evil devil people, they think they are doing good. Unfortunately I and many others feel the approach is too coercive and can be abusive in some situations. However, as with most things, there is some good in there that you can pick out. So if it's wrong to mention those things as well as the bad, then I'm in the wrong.
However, I'd be interested if anyone can point me to a post where I am saying that Parelli is a good system and supporting that system, because if I could read that I'd wonder if my body had been taken over by aliens.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Aw! I think the Intelligent Horsemanship RA's only charge about £30£40 an hour, that's hardly a stupid amount of money is it?
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I got charged £30 travel then £80 for the hour. X
amandap
Well-Known Member
RA's do vary in price and there is often travelling.
The point is that the owner/carer needs to learn the skills to deal with stuff. There is no point someone just training your horse and then an owner carrying on in the same way there is a chance the horse will just carry on (revert) in the same way...
A horse can be 'untrained' (retrained really) in a very short space of time.'
The human often needs to learn different skills to be able to train their own horse especially if there are behavioural problems. The trick imo is finding what those skills (or physical investigations) are and working on improving them, along with finding a trainer who you feel comfortable with and have confidence in for your horse.
I would like to pick up on the bit I've highlighted. RA 's and other trainers that come out to you are really trying to give 'you' skills, not train your horse per se.
The point is that the owner/carer needs to learn the skills to deal with stuff. There is no point someone just training your horse and then an owner carrying on in the same way there is a chance the horse will just carry on (revert) in the same way...
A horse can be 'untrained' (retrained really) in a very short space of time.'
The human often needs to learn different skills to be able to train their own horse especially if there are behavioural problems. The trick imo is finding what those skills (or physical investigations) are and working on improving them, along with finding a trainer who you feel comfortable with and have confidence in for your horse.
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Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Yes. It can take the trainer an hour to "fix it" and the owner a minute to put things straight back as they were.
NOISYGIRL
Well-Known Member
Done to death and yes
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I understand where you are coming from but she spent and hour with us and at the end told me that in her honest opinion that she is dangerous and i should just find a feild somewhere and not bother that was 8months after she had first came out and i did all the exercises she gave me. She had gotten a little better but i thought she would improve more after the second session but she didnt. Also the lady came from 20 minutes away so not far.
Then a friend introduced me to this great guy who after working with my mare for 40minutes had her completely chilled and we could do anything with her ears, she was ear twitched badly and freaked everytime her ears where trapped, and i work with her every day with her and i cand put a bridle on and she lowers her head and we are hopeing to have her backed by winter. So it wasnt anything to do with me doing the exercises wrong. They just didnt have the skills.
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Then a friend introduced me to this great guy who after working with my mare for 40minutes had her completely chilled and we could do anything with her ears, she was ear twitched badly and freaked everytime her ears where trapped, and i work with her every day with her and i cand put a bridle on and she lowers her head and we are hopeing to have her backed by winter. So it wasnt anything to do with me doing the exercises wrong. They just didnt have the skills.
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baran
Well-Known Member
Not really to the point but went to a Parelli demo years ago and was told we would learn to be our horse's best friend. Struck me as very odd. I don't believe horses think like that and even if they do, I don't want to be my horse's best friend! He is a horse and should be most closely bonded to other horses, not another species. I want his respect and attention when I am there but when I am not there, he should be relating to other horses.
amandap
Well-Known Member
That's one of the points I was trying to make ie. finding someone who suits you and your horse.
I really don't think you can say THEY don't have the skills when you've only got experience of one. I have heard/read many good reports from owners so they do help many horses and people.
We need people with different approaches and styles... owners (and horses) are so individual there can never (nor should there) be a one size fits all.
suejs001
Member
I think everyone should just accept that not everything works for all horses and sometimes you have to think outside the box. There is some really good stuff in Parelli as well as other stuff you may not choose ... The Horsanality work is amazing and helped me with my horse to understand him much better and to give me strategies to help him. I don't agree with phase 4 even when my horse is at his worst ... just work with some of the ideas to build the relationship with your horse. The seven games are a great tool. I am currently working with my rising 2 year old and I know it is a great foundation ... be open minded and mix and match IMHO.
Best of luck to everyone
Happy horsing!
Best of luck to everyone
Happy horsing!