Spavin

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Oliviaxx

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Hi all,

My mare has just been diagnosed with Bone Spavin. I wasn't there when the vet came out as I couldn't get any time off, but my sister was. Apparently the vet thinks it could take 3 years for the bones to fuse (it is in both back legs)

Can anyone recommend any treatments for this? I don't really want to go just with what my vet has said as it took them a while to even figure out what it was.

Riding her every day is completely out of the question but I have heard this is one of things that help the most?

Injections are a no from me, my sisters pony had these and he got a bad infection and had to be rushed to Newmarket.

Our vet recommended putting her into foal, I am really against this for so many reasons but if it will help her mend quicker I would do it, she is so stiff at the moment I literally can't have her in pain like that for 3 more years?
 
Oliviaxx said:
Hi all,

My mare has just been diagnosed with Bone Spavin. I wasn't there when the vet came out as I couldn't get any time off, but my sister was. Apparently the vet thinks it could take 3 years for the bones to fuse (it is in both back legs)

Can anyone recommend any treatments for this? I don't really want to go just with what my vet has said as it took them a while to even figure out what it was.

Riding her every day is completely out of the question but I have heard this is one of things that help the most?

Injections are a no from me, my sisters pony had these and he got a bad infection and had to be rushed to Newmarket.

Our vet recommended putting her into foal, I am really against this for so many reasons but if it will help her mend quicker I would do it, she is so stiff at the moment I literally can't have her in pain like that for 3 more years?
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have just had the same experience and with constant hard work they set in three months. I even loose jumped him and lunged him as aggravating them is the best way to set them. Do not feed bute as this will delay the healing and mask if they are getting worse. Mine was never worse than no different after work, and I turned him out a lot and always before and after exercise. It was hard work and well worth it. Also look at foot balance as most cases are caused by a medio lateral imbalance of the feet, trouble higher up usually starts from there. They will probably come right if she is turned out provided she moves about a lot, if not I was advised the prognosis is not so good. I also feed 35mg each of magnesium oxide and limestone flour and three tablespoons of salt ( he is 650kg). Like you would not have joint injections because of the need for turnout and risk of infection. Has been sound for year and competing regularly since last May.
 
Have you got any xrays? can you go to see your vet and get a full explanation/sit down with him( or her?)

When my old boy was diagnosed, his joints (the immovable bottom hock joints) were almost fused anyway, and the latest bout of lameness was from some new osteogenic activity due to the amount of jumping he had been doing with my sharer. I didn't get him imjected (we didn't have tildren in France at the time, and my vet said he didn't agree with ethanol infusions), but he did have remedial shoes on for 12 months (after being barefoot for 6 years it was a bit of a blow, but he came out of them at the other end without any issues).

I put him on a joint supplement, and I rode him. It feels awful to ride, especially on sore days, but the inflammation within the joint encourages the fusion to happen quicker - this is also why buting and riding doesn't have the same effect.

He never did much jumping again (though he was 17 when he was diagnosed - and I lost him at 19), but we still did everything else. I was extra careful about his warm up, and we did lots of slow steady work until he was ready to really work. Some days were better than others, some days you would never think there was anything wrong, other days he was almost on 3 legs on a circle. On sore days I'd just dial back what I'd expect of him, but I'd still get on with it.


Over the course of 6 months he became a lot better, and by 12 months he was as good as he'd ever been, a bit stiffer to start with, but warmed up fine. So the shoes came off and we carried on.
 
Hey, thanks for the advice.

We got x-Rays done a month ago and our vet said she didn't have it. Last week she was really lame so we called our vet out again but a different vet came (from the same place) she said she had looked at the x rays and was sure she had bone spavin. She showed us where it was in the x-Rays.

She came out yesterday and did a nerve block and she was walking perfectly so she diagnosed her. The bones haven't even started to fuse yet by the x-rays and she estimated 3 years.

She is so lame I literally can't even bring myself to ride her, so my sister is walking her around for me. Plus the fact I only go down on the weekends and my sister and mum have her for the whole week (I finish work late and struggle to get down there)

I have a call scheduled with my vet so I am going to speak to her but as I said I really don't trust my vets, for one vet to tell me her bones are perfect and the other to say she has spavin in both is baffling (I always thought she had spavin the whole time we have been going through this)
 
Hi my horse was diagnosed with spavin when he was 7 and had intra articular injections (straight into the hock joint) of steroid and HA which is abbreviation for sodium hyaluronate, which helps to restore the function of the naturally occuring HA in the joint, it improves the lubrication of the joint and improves the quality of the synovial fluid (which helps lubricate the joints and cartilage)

However this is only a short term solution, with some horses it can last a year and then the injection will need to be repeated, in other horses it only lasts a few months. There is also a risk of joint infection unless the injections are done at an equine hospital or your own vets practice in which case the surroundings will be more sterile. Although joint infection is fairly rare, it can cause huge complications and can be very serious for your horse. I think the vets automatically add some kind of antibiotic in with the injection to help combat the chance of joint infection. The positives far outway the danger though, as I say its quite rare for a joint infection due to these injections (from what I believe anyway).

If the joint injections don't work your vet may want to go down the line of tiludronate sodium is a fluid which is intravenously injected into your horse over a period of about an hour and a half. Short-term side-effects can be muscle tremors, and sweating or colic may occur in a small proportion of horses in the 1-3 hours after the infusion.My horse had the treatment done three times and was colicky after but it was only straight forward spasmodic colic which I treated him for.

Finally there is fusion using ethanol which my horse had about 6 years after the joint injections and the Tildren. Ethanol is very pure alcohol and this is injected into the joint space where it goes to work immediately numbing the area and stopping any pain. The joints can take up to 18 months to fuse. My horse had this treatment. It consists of injecting the joint with a small quantity of imaging dye and then the area is xrayed. If the xrays show the dye is going straight then the injection of alchol can go ahead, if not the procedure has to be abandoned.

Its important to note that if the horse has the fusion with ethanol nothing else can be injected into the joint space following the procedure as there is no room. Xrays of my horse around 12/14 months after the procedure showed fusion had taken place in the one hock and was almost complete in the other. The horse is jumping up to about 3ft 3 unaffilated and dressaging at unaffilated Novice and Elementary level. Contary to what someone said, there is no indication that having a horses hocks fused causes it to have any problems on the hind limbs/ligaments/tendons any more than a horse who has not had this procedure. One of my vets has said this to me when I asked him recently.

Think the joint injections are about £70 the Tildren was £700 per infusion and the fusion with Ethanol was £300 for both hocks. This was at my vets anyway.

Anymore questions let me know, or I can guide you to some useful links to read. I'm not a vet but have expeirence and knowledge about this.
 
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old hand said:
Like you would not have joint injections because of the need for turnout and risk of infection. Has been sound for year and competing regularly since last May.
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The turnout you refer to is not allowing your horse out onto grass for 48 hours. He can go into a sand arena/menage or stable yard in the meantime. 48 hours isn't long to keep a horse in for its own safety. Mind you I am asuming that is if you have a stable so maybe if you dont, it could be problematic.

Joint infection is fairly uncommmon.

The problem with fusion is it can be very hit and miss. Sometimes it may have a delay in ocurring and somtimes it might not occur at all. Some horses respond better than others to different treatments. Only you and your vet will know the best course of action to take.

I agree that bute wouldn't be a long term solution to spavin, but its good for assisting when an older horses joints are a little stiff or when you anticipate working it a little harder that day. There are good oral substitutes available - buteless for example.

I would expect the OP's vets to know if the horse has spavin or not, this is shocking that they cannot reach a diagnosis. I would change my vets, its not THAT hard to diagnose for goodness sake!
 
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our mare was kicked in the hock and as only one part of the hock joint was damaged as seen on the xray we decided to have it drilled/ fused. we were told this is the quickest way of getting her out of pain and it worked well. the next two years she was back competing at regional level. the following year won her class. that was 6 years ago and although she now has an easier life she still fools around in the field and wont be left at home when the others hack out.
GET A SECOND OR THIRD OPINION ... LOOK AT ALL YOUR OPTIONS... ALL MAY NOT BE LOST....
GOOD LUCK
 
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woolieoldgit said:
our mare was kicked in the hock and as only one part of the hock joint was damaged as seen on the xray we decided to have it drilled/ fused. we were told this is the quickest way of getting her out of pain and it worked well. the next two years she was back competing at regional level. the following year won her class. that was 6 years ago and although she now has an easier life she still fools around in the field and wont be left at home when the others hack out.
GET A SECOND OR THIRD OPINION ... LOOK AT ALL YOUR OPTIONS... ALL MAY NOT BE LOST....
GOOD LUCK
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Hi I didn't included surgical fusion as one of the options because its such an invasive procedure with greater risks due to the GA but I have heard of some cases where its worked very well. Spavin is very common and on the whole can be easily treated especially if it is caught early. Glad your mare is ok x
 
Our pony was diagnosed with spavin in both hocks by one vet who discussed joint fusion (but he favoured the surgical arthrodesis rather than the cheaper Ethanol that Applecart is discussing - that vet thought that you got a more recommended fuse with the surgical method, though this is pricier and requires some box rest also)

We got a second opinion and vet number two didn't think the spavin was an issue for us and was relatively mild. He recommended a course of Adequan (seven injections over 28 days) and he came right.

I think it depends what state the cartiledge is in and if its worth preserving, in which case you could use Adequan. Or if you want to eliminate it and encourage fusion.

BTW - Applecart I thought your explanation was great :)
 
Our pony had spavin and was pretty lame with it. We basically retired him into the field thinking he was now a field ornament but after a couple of years he has come sound again and is galloping about. :D Hopefully he'll be able to come back into work when the next lot of kids are old enough to ride him.
 
Don't give up hope!!!!! My gelding was diagnosed with x-rays in january 2014 and I was devastated. I, like you, don't get to ride a lot as I am very busy with work and 2 small children. I was very worried about getting enough work into him to fuse his hocks. I went for the steroid injection into the joints as I didn't fancy the colic that tildren can cause. Horse then was box rested for a week to ensure he didn't get lami (he's high-risk for that). Then back into walking out, slowly building up. I just did what my horse could manage. He was injected again last summer and since then has got better and better - this is with only being ridden at weekends throughout winter too! We only hack out now but I can honestly say he's better than he's ever been and it's only taken a year, we've even been jumping logs in the woods and galloping on the beach. Vet is pretty sure one hock is fused and the other is almost there.
The most important thing is remedial shoeing I think. My farrier took the x rays and made horse's shoes using them as a guide.
You need to ride them otherwise the bone growth will make them stiffer and much worse. I know it seems mean but it can't hurt that much - my gelding knows his own mind and will not do ANYTHING he doesn't want to!!! And he was more than happy to have asteady mooch about.

I also fed turmeric and rosehips. If you have a look online turmeric is really good for arthritis, as is rosehip. I can't guarantee that they helped but I fed them anyway and my farrier thinks they probably did! They are much cheaper than equine joint supplements so no harm in trying.
 
Mine was diagnosed with spavin in both hocks over 6 years ago. Vet recommended Adequan and gradual work (lots of walking in straight lines), which brought him sound and we recommenced work. He had another flare up a few years later, again treated with Adequan and walking. He also gets oil, turmeric and Cosequin. He fractured a tibia over a year ago now, and obviously had a lot of xrays, some of which shoed his hock, and I was amazed to see that rather than fusing, which I had expected (as he had no subsequent problems with his hocks), they don't seem to have got any worse! He is now sound again, and as good as ever. We compete at riding club level, hunt and hack. He is now 15.
 
Smurf's Gran said:
BTW - Applecart I thought your explanation was great :)
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Thanks, I have recently been accused of giving rubbish advice by somone on here so that is kind of you! :)

I'm not allowed to start my posts 'my horse has been diagnosed with' either according to the 'rules'!) :D
 
P has/had spavin in both hocks. Following x-rays we turned him out for two years, his hocks fused and he was then fine up until he was retired owing to cushings related muscle loss. I wouldn't have put him through the injections anyway, and especially not after the insurance company decided after x-rays not to pay up for anything because he had a birthday after the renewal date (E&L need you ask . . . . )

Anyway, whatever route you go OP I hope your horse feels better soon.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how all vets are different and some really go out of their way to try every treatment available whilst some seem to give up quite quickly or go down an entirely different route altogether. I am not suggesting my vets are any better than anyone elses and not trying to offend anyone for having a different vet who doesn't go the extra mile maybe, or try every treatment if the first one fails, in a methodical manner, nor am I having a go at anyone who has turned their horse away or done things differently to me. I am just curious.

Some vets suggest turn away, others suggest surgery, others would use injections for ever and a day, some are Tildren fanatics. I wonder why they all differ in their treatment plans so vastly. Is it because some are out to make lots of money? Or is it that some are more up to date than others, have the most up to date diagnostic equipment and recent training? I think my vets fall into this second catergory as they are very 'high tech' and experienced. Does anyone else ever think there is a huge difference in the way vets act?
 
Those are some really good and interesting points, Applecart, re vets and their differing approaches. Is there a vet on here who can explain?
For the record, my boy was diagnosed with spavin at 12 yrs old. The vet went for fusion ( less options as it was a while ago). It worked perfectly for us with no complications - he is now around 28 and we' ve never looked back.
 
**BUMP**

Any vets? Any suggestions/stories/input?
Glad your horse is still going strong Jojo 5 - a lot of people would have 12 was too old and the horse would have ended up retired/pts. In my eyes it would be total madness and a waste of a good horse. There is so much can be done these days, I'd like to be that we are only touching the tip of the iceberg in research/diagnosis and treatment.
 
Blimey, Applecart!! 'A lot of people', as you say, would have been wrong!!! We have done sooooo much together since he was 12!! Though anyone that knows him would say that he might have thought early retirement was a great idea!!! ( I would love to put the laughing face with the tongue here but they don't seem to work on my iPad....)
 
jojo5 said:
Blimey, Applecart!! 'A lot of people', as you say, would have been wrong!!! We have done sooooo much together since he was 12!! Though anyone that knows him would say that he might have thought early retirement was a great idea!!! ( I would love to put the laughing face with the tongue here but they don't seem to work on my iPad....)
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You don't have to tell me Jojo5!

I was told only a few weeks ago by someone on this forum to pts my horse with the human equivalent of a sprained ankle! My vet was totally gobsmacked when I told him! Its mental! I think there are many horses that are written off much to early, but why I am not sure. Is it lack of a good vet, lack of owners time, financial reasons, lack of clear direction, lack of motivation, or what???? Like I said earlier, total madness!

The vet doesn't seem to be in any doubt that we will be jumping again as before after the three months is up, although it will probably be much longer than this to be honest, I am reckoning on June.
 
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Hope all goes well for you and your horse, Applecart - your horse is lucky to have an owner who thinks your way!
 
applecart14 said:
I was told only a few weeks ago by someone on this forum to pts my horse with the human equivalent of a sprained ankle!
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I think you mean me. I didn't TELL you to have Bailey PTS, what I actually said was that if I had a horse with his (multiple) issues I would CONSIDER retiring or even having him PTS. Also, a damaged suspensory is NOT the human equivalent of a sprained ankle - there are no suspensory ligaments in the human leg/ankle and the weight-bearing mechanisms are completely different - so you are comparing apples to oranges.

I think there are many horses that are written off much to early, but why I am not sure. Is it lack of a good vet, lack of owners time, financial reasons, lack of clear direction, lack of motivation, or what???? Like I said earlier, total madness!
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Perhaps it's simply putting the horse first. IMHO, having a horse with multiple injuries and physical issues which inhibit its innate nature and ability to simply be a horse PTS is a kindness - and an act of great responsibility. We are their custodians and their advocates. It's our JOB to call time when we believe they face a life of pain and worry. Horses are unbelievably honest animals and will put up with a great deal of pain and discomfort before they tell us they have had enough . . . personally, I'd rather call time a day too early than a day too late.

P
 
Oliviaxx said:
Hi all,

My mare has just been diagnosed with Bone Spavin. I wasn't there when the vet came out as I couldn't get any time off, but my sister was. Apparently the vet thinks it could take 3 years for the bones to fuse (it is in both back legs)

Can anyone recommend any treatments for this? I don't really want to go just with what my vet has said as it took them a while to even figure out what it was.

Riding her every day is completely out of the question but I have heard this is one of things that help the most?

Injections are a no from me, my sisters pony had these and he got a bad infection and had to be rushed to Newmarket.

Our vet recommended putting her into foal, I am really against this for so many reasons but if it will help her mend quicker I would do it, she is so stiff at the moment I literally can't have her in pain like that for 3 more years?
Click to expand...

Putting her in foal won't help her mend . . . I'm sorry that your poor mare is struggling - I hope you find a solution, but breeding from her isn't it.

P
 
Had it with one of my older girls, and the first one became obvious when she had a 12 week old foal at foot so would completely disagree with vet r.e. putting her in foal as it puts a huge strain on the hind legs.
With her she went on to high dose cortaflex while the foal was on her then she was worked for 3 months on bute, tried her off it, bit stiff still but better so did another 2 months on bute and she came fully sound. Also put her on turmeric and she was moving loads better, all stiffness gone. Subsequently the other hock kicked off last autumn although very slight, just a bit stiff, so she has done 3 months on bute and is fine again just on the cortaflex and turmeric. She turns 20yo next month and is still happily working at advanced level dressage at home, although not currently competing as not quite fit enough yet.

Been lucky with her that it has fused quickly on both occasions, my other old girl (now 26yo) fused her hock joints without having a days lameness. She just looked a bit stiff on them when she was very heavily pregnant with her last foal. Only know because she went lame on a front leg with ringbone and I got the vet to xray the hocks while he was on with it. He thought she was ok as she flexed sound on them, so was gobsmacked at the extent of the fusion she already had. She had two lots of tildren to finish the fusion as the joint spaces were too small to inject by then. She's still sound on them 4 years on at 26yo, although she is retired from ridden work due to her eyesight.
 
Sorry haven't read replies but from my experience, leave horde out ie don't stable. As keeps joints moving. Give a good joint supplement. If insured try a course of tildren, cartrophen injections and shock wave ( good for boney spurs). Magnetic therapy I like veredus or bio flow, premier equine are cheaper but tend to slip. I wouldn't inject if horse is young I left my 8 year old mare and fused in a year I did inject my older gelding as he was 17 at the time so risk versus benefit. Got a good result in each horse. Also don't let horse get face ie good weight management. Best of luck
 
PolarSkye said:
Also, a damaged suspensory is NOT the human equivalent of a sprained ankle - there are no suspensory ligaments in the human leg/ankle and the weight-bearing mechanisms are completely different - so you are comparing apples to oranges.





P
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REALLY?
They might not be called 'suspensory ligaments' but they are still ligaments and still act in the same was as the suspensory BRANCH.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ligaments+near+the+ankle&src=ie9tr
My vet laughed when I told him that someone on this forum has suggested having my lovely boy put down with a slight sprain and said they were talking utter rubbish.
God why don't you get of your high horse and stop being so bitchy all the time Polar Skye. My horse is making a great recovery to date (as anticipated). And for the last time its the suspensory BRANCH that he has affected so please stop referring to it as the suspensory. Whilst it is the same thing the branch (as its name suggests) branches off the suspensory and has such has a completely different diagnosis, treatment and recovery as I have pointed out about a billion times already.
 
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PolarSkye said:
It's our JOB to call time when we believe they face a life of pain and worry. Horses are unbelievably honest animals and will put up with a great deal of pain and discomfort before they tell us they have had enough . . . personally, I'd rather call time a day too early than a day too late.

P
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I couldn't agree more with you on this point, and if I ever reach this with Bailey he will be pts but I haven't reached this or anywhere near this and your continual argument that I have really baffles me, I don't know where you are getting your information from, I'd love to show you a video and then hear you tell me to PTS. A life of pain and worry. The only pain Bailey is suffering is when he steps on a stone out on a hack, and the only worry he suffers in when he doesn't get a carrot in his tea. :). For goodness sakes get it in perspective!!!! You really are being very silly about this. I rode him in the school last night in his dually and did my vets prescribed trot work (do this twice per week in the school and the other four times he's ridden he is to be trotted on the road). He was sound. I am keeping it down the long sides and have started incorporating twice per session riding a short side of the long side as well as he is now at the start of week four of his four week trot work. I have the vet out on the 7th May for his final assessment and hopefully canter work can start.

Gosh if you had had your way Bailey would have been in the paddock in the sky years ago and for what????? You think you know more than the vets, my gosh you must be a very clever person not to have done your five years of vets school in order to know all this.
 
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applecart14 said:
REALLY?
They might not be called 'suspensory ligaments' but they are still ligaments and still act in the same was as the suspensory BRANCH.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ligaments+near+the+ankle&src=ie9tr
My vet laughed when I told him that someone on this forum has suggested having my lovely boy put down with a slight sprain and said they were talking utter rubbish.
God why don't you get of your high horse and stop being so bitchy all the time Polar Skye. My horse is making a great recovery to date (as anticipated). And for the last time its the suspensory BRANCH that he has affected so please stop referring to it as the suspensory. Whilst it is the same thing the branch (as its name suggests) branches off the suspensory and has such has a completely different diagnosis, treatment and recovery as I have pointed out about a billion times already.
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I do wish you would stop calling me names. I have always been polite to you. And, once again, I didn't TELL you to do anything - I merely stated what I would do if my horse had similar issues to yours.

Once again, I wish you well with Bailey (as I have repeatedly said), but (as I have also said many times) I would be worried if a horse of mine had multiple suspensory BRANCH injuries - I would be questioning my management and changing it accordingly.

P
 
OP - I am really sorry that this thread has been derailed in this way - and for my part in its derailment. I won't be commenting on it again unless it is to offer you some constructive advice - I hope you sort your lovely mare out.

P
 
I do apologise OP 'tis a curse that I have to put up with unfortunatley from certain people :(
Still there are some very nice people on here so they are the ones we should concern ourself with instead of those determined to cause a rift and make people rise and get amusement from doing so.
 
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