Speaking as an owner

Rowreach said:
I think there are quite a few of us actually but our posts have been rather smothered by the totally anti and the totally pro rows which have been going on ;)
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I also agree it needs to be changed, but I don't agree with a ban - I think the number of horses should be reduced to about 30 but I don't think the fences should be made any smaller - I think that's part of the problem -smaller fences seems to have resulted in a faster speed.
 
Mithras said:
Horses which don't want to race, won't. They either won't start, or will stay in the pack, or not exert themselves, or run out os stop. If they want to race, they will try to stick their heads out in front and be ahead of the other horses.
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Do you understand where this behaviour comes from?

In a herd situation in the wild, the horse which is definitely not going to be the lion's next meal is the one at the front. I.E the racing instinct is grounded in fear. Horses try not to be at the back because that's the one that is going to be tea for Aslan. Non triers who stay in the pack will be hit with a whip to make them go forward. And if they ignore that, or simply cannot run faster, then after a few races many of them will end up shoved through the auctions with no regard whatsoever for where they end up.
 
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cptrayes said:
Do you understand where this behaviour comes from?

In a herd situation in the wild, the horse which is definitely not going to be the lion's next meal is the one at the front. I.E the racing instinct is grounded in fear. Horses try not to be at the back because that's the one that is going to be tea for Aslan. Non triers who stay in the pack will be hit with a whip to make them go forward. And if they ignore that, or simply cannot run faster, then after a few races many of them will end up shoved through the auctions with no regard whatsoever for where they end up.
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Sorry but I think that is rubbish, if you think that is true then you must think all horses think like that. Why in that case are horses fine about being on their own ? If they are constantly thinking they are going to be eaten unless they are in front then why are they not all trying to be first ? Some horses are simply not interested in racing, do they not mind being eaten ?
I think some horses are just competitive and some are not. If I am looking for a racehorse the most important thing to look for is that competitive spirit. The horse that walking in a group who wants to have his head in front ....it's not to do with speed, walking will tell you just as much.
 
bonny said:
Sorry but I think that is rubbish, if you think that is true then you must think all horses think like that. Why in that case are horses fine about being on their own ? If they are constantly thinking they are going to be eaten unless they are in front then why are they not all trying to be first ? Some horses are simply not interested in racing, do they not mind being eaten ?
I think some horses are just competitive and some are not. If I am looking for a racehorse the most important thing to look for is that competitive spirit. The horse that walking in a group who wants to have his head in front ....it's not to do with speed, walking will tell you just as much.
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I'm glad someone else didn't fall for the brainwashing! I'm a lawyer, (albeit one who has worked previously both in racing and in showjumping), not an English graduate, but is it onomatipea when you try to prescribe human emotions onto animals? Some of what was said is vaguely based on truth, the rest simply bending of interpretation to suit one individual's own emotive response...

But everything you do with any animal is built on utilising their instincts to human need.
 
Mithras said:
I'm glad someone else didn't fall for the brainwashing! I'm a lawyer, (albeit one who has worked previously both in racing and in showjumping), not an English graduate, but is it onomatipea when you try to prescribe human emotions onto animals? Some of what was said is vaguely based on truth, the rest simply bending of interpretation to suit one individual's own emotive response...

But everything you do with any animal is built on utilising their instincts to human need.
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Is that the same as anthropomorphism?
 
bonny said:
Sorry but I think that is rubbish, if you think that is true then you must think all horses think like that.
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No, I thought it was clear that it is the ones who want to be in front - ie the ones that you select for their "racing instinct" are wired to know that the safest place to be is in the lead.

bonny said:
Why in that case are horses fine about being on their own ?
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Lots of them aren't. I have one who will not hack alone and I would never keep a horse on its own.

bonny said:
If they are constantly thinking they are going to be eaten unless they are in front then why are they not all trying to be first ? Some horses are simply not interested in racing, do they not mind being eaten ?
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It would appear that through the course of man's interference with evolution, they have lost their survival instinct. Since most people find it a very annoying trait to have a horse which must be in front, it is not surprising that it has been bred out of many riding horses.


bonny said:
I think some horses are just competitive and some are not. If I am looking for a racehorse the most important thing to look for is that competitive spirit. The horse that walking in a group who wants to have his head in front ....it's not to do with speed, walking will tell you just as much.
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Yes, it is competitive - it doesn't get more competitive than "if you die I live". Yes, it's not to do with speed. It's to do with position. The horse in front does not get eaten, it's the one at the back. Lions don't run any further or faster than they need to, they just take the hindmost.

At its core, the horse is still, genetically, mostly the wild plains herd animal that it was bred up in size and speed from. Most horse behaviour can pretty easily be mapped back to their wild origins.
 
DebbieR said:
It's anthropomorphism Mithras, ascribing human emotions to animals.
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Thanks, both of you!

On the other thread, there were quite interesting discussions about possible correlation between decreasing bone in NH horses and type, and frequency of breaking down in races. It was perhaps a little less esoteric...
 
You seem to me to be making this up as you go and with very little knowledge of racing and what's required in a good racehorse. By your reasoning all horses would just go off from the start as fast as possible and do whatever they can to maintain their position. In reality a horse doing that has very little chance of even finishing in a jumping race let alone winning. They get tired and are pulled up, is the horse then thinking that's me going to eaten now ? Racehorses have to learn to settle, conserve their energy and then save something hopefully for the end of the race when asked to make an effort.
 
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