Spin off from the abler thread

[poiuytrewq]

I was interested to see that Omeprazole can now be purchased over the counter or even from eBay!
This could possibly be a life saver for me in my current situation, horse scoped and was treated with gastroguard, scoped clear but started showing symptoms again within weeks. Back onto the gastroguard and again he’s doing well. He’s on half a tube a day for another week or so then we stop again. The vet has said it might be he has to continue with a low dose indefinitely.
This isn’t really feasible for me due to the cost. A half dose is still almost £100 per week.
I have used Abler before but not really wanting to make it a regular thing.
So the tablets I can buy here from the chemist, mostly 20mg
How would this work with a horse?

 

[Casey76]

No point. Omeprazole for horses is specially coated so that it doesn’t get metabolized until is is in the intestine. As omeprazole is a centrally acting product, you need it to be absorbed correctly otherwise you are paying for no treatment.

 

[BoopleShnoots]

Any clue why the vet hasn't suggested omeprazole? Do they have an opinion on it?

I pester the crap out of my vet with questions and suggestions. They either explain why they disagree or they're happy to give my suggestions ago.

Edited to add, ignore me. Gastrogard IS omeprazole. Pfffffttt!

OK, new question; can you discuss the cost with the vet and ask if there is anything you can do to lower the cost?

 

[ycbm]

Omeprazole for people is also enteric coated and works in horses. But it will cost you a lot to buy human stuff from eBay, it will still come from potentially unreliable Asian sources, And it's still illegal to import for horse use. , You'd be safer, but no more legal, with Abler

 

[poiuytrewq]

Gastroguard is omeprazole but it’s bloody expensive and if he’s going to be on it long term I thought this could be helpful.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I think I can buy from U.K. chemists though now?
Well yes that’s what I’d wondered, what the dose would be and if it were doable

 

[BoopleShnoots]

Gastroguard is omeprazole but it’s bloody expensive and if he’s going to be on it long term I thought this could be helpful.

I can see why you're suggesting it. I can't believe how expensive gastroguard is!

 

[ycbm]

I think I can buy from U.K. chemists though now?
Well yes that’s what I’d wondered, what the dose would be and if it were doable

Only in tiny quantities in 10mg tablets. A horse would need 140 a day to treat and 70 a day maintenance dose, and you'll never be able to buy those at ten in a pack, on pack per purchase, even if you could afford it.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ve seen 20mg but yes your right it’s just not feasible but was worth an ask.
Might have another look at Abler again.
Best case scenario he’ll be fine at the end of this second course of treatment but I’m getting a bit nervy and could do with a plan B
He will soon be up to my max for insurance vet claim and as of next March this will be excluded anyway.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I’ve seen 20mg but yes your right it’s just not feasible but was worth an ask.
Might have another look at Abler again.
Best case scenario he’ll be fine at the end of this second course of treatment but I’m getting a bit nervy and could do with a plan B
He will soon be up to my max for insurance vet claim and as of next March this will be excluded anyway.

It's not the same, of course but have you tried giving him Aloe Vera juice? It worked for my mare.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I haven’t tried Aloe Vera no. He’s on quite an expensive supplement (kindly supplied and paid for by his owner, he’s on loan to me) and as they have re-occurred so quickly I can’t see as that’s a whole lot of good.
I can give it a try. What amount do you give?

 

[Rob1585]

Yes some omeprazole products have a license to be sold over the counter for human use in chemists, however once you are using them for horses, you are now using them off-license, which means they need to be prescribed under the cascade by a vet. So it’s illegal to buy omeprazole (or Piriton, ect) for animal use. Also the amounts needed mean you’d be unlikely to be able to buy enough. Instead to save money you’re best finding an online pharmacy which is cheaper to buy gastroguard from and getting your vet to write a prescription.

 

[splashgirl45]

have you looked on viovet, its still expensive but may be cheaper than your vet..,.£19,93 per syringe

 

[poiuytrewq]

My vets charge quite a lot if i remember correctly for a prescription. I know i can find cheaper online but tbh its still too much for permanent use Even if i could afford it id struggle to justify spending that much. I think I'm just going to think positively and hope he actually doesn't need it after all.

 

[eahotson]

Just a thought but have you ever tried homeopathic medcine.You can get vets who have trained on homepathy.I always used to think it was akin the black magic but am having a long standing problem with my horse which the regular horse specialist vets are struggling with.I spoke to the homeopathy vet who was very good and am trying some of his ideas.

 

[Casey76]

Homeopathy is complete bollox, and the RCVS will not endorse it any longer

https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/181/19/494.1

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I haven’t tried Aloe Vera no. He’s on quite an expensive supplement (kindly supplied and paid for by his owner, he’s on loan to me) and as they have re-occurred so quickly I can’t see as that’s a whole lot of good.
I can give it a try. What amount do you give?

I gave the 16hh Draft mare who weighed at least 700kg, probably more, I just used a weight-tape, 3 capfuls of Holland & Barrett AJ. I think each cap holds 15 ml. It's quite arbitrary really. She was never diagnosed but was very symptomatic. In the early days, if we missed a dose, she immediately became grumpy again. I doubt that it would replace Gastroguard but maybe if you get the ulcers cleared up, the AJ will help to keep them at bay. I also changed my mare's diet to high fibre, low sugar, low starch, when she came here but I expect you have already done that.

 

[eahotson]

Homeopathy is complete bollox, and the RCVS will not endorse it any longer

https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/181/19/494.1

I would have said that

Homeopathy is complete bollox, and the RCVS will not endorse it any longer

https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/181/19/494.1

I would have said that at one time.However I know people that have used it very successfully.The vet I propose to use this is in fact in the first instance a fully qualified vet.I have a horse with a severe intractable infection that,despite multiple visits from vets and antibiotics has not settled.They are at their wits end.We are trying the newmarket broth produced for us by another vetinary practice.I am trying somr 'rubbish'supplements on which he appears to be improving.I have also used honey (under medical supervision) to heal a very nasty wound which it did very successfully.You do wonder at Big Pharma sometimes don't you?

 

[Casey76]

Homeopathy is not the same as naturopathy.

One of the main tenets of homeopathy is that the more dilute something is the “stronger” it is; and if you make contact with the little sugar drops, then it somehow nullifies the effectiveness of the “treatment”.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence to back this up.

Naturopathy, however, is full of evidence of efficacy.

 

[eahotson]

As far as I understand homeopathy is giving a very small dose of something that causes an illness to someone.Immunization runs on that principle.

 

[Leo Walker]

It doesnt matter what homeopathy is. It doesnt work.

 

[eahotson]

It doesnt matter what homeopathy is. It doesnt work.

well I am going to give it a go as I have nothing to loose and plenty to gain.Every now and again it pays to think outside the box.

 

[Shavings]

I have used abler, it works out far cheaper then human omeprazole due to the amount you need

how ever the key to ulcers, is management and getting to the bottom of what is coursing them, some horses are more stressy the other and it really is a case of what works for one does not another

i feed keyflow pink mash with mint in it worked great for my gelding at the time, he kept weight all winter and wasn't cow kicking when girth, mint is good for tummies any way plus some times stripping out all the chemicals can really be good

 

[poiuytrewq]

This is the difficult bit. I don’t know 100% what caused them. I am putting it down to a tooth problem which should now be sorted 🤞
and the fact there was virtually no grass over summer once they ate it off it refused to grow. He was having hay but all I can think is that it ran out faster overnight than I thought or he just wasn’t eating it.
So in theory the reasons should be fixed

 

[Casey76]

As far as I understand homeopathy is giving a very small dose of something that causes an illness to someone.Immunization runs on that principle.

Immunization works by stimulating B and T lymphocytes, so that when the body is rechallenged by the illness the bone marrow and thymus are already prepped and can churn out massive amounts of lymphocytes with the correct configuration to overcome the challenge.

To do this, you need a) killed virus or bacteria b) attenuated virus or bacteria this is normally disrupted cells or c) very rarely, an organism which is so similar to the taget that the bodies immune system doesn’t differentiate; e.g. in the case of cow pox/small pox.

Homeopathy works on a principle of dilution, in that the fainter the exposure the greater the response (which is complete rubbish).

 

[Leo Walker]

i feed keyflow pink mash with mint in it worked great for my gelding at the time, he kept weight all winter and wasn't cow kicking when girth, mint is good for tummies any way plus some times stripping out all the chemicals can really be good

Pink Mash is brilliant stuff. It made a huge difference to my stressy little horse.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ll have a look. Is it actually mushy mash? My horse really dislikes food without a bit of bite to it!!

 

[Shavings]

I’ll have a look. Is it actually mushy mash? My horse really dislikes food without a bit of bite to it!!

it is mash but my horse liked slop so i made it runner then most, if you make it up add some chaff it gives it more "bite" or "crunch"

 

[Regandal]

You could also try slippery elm or marshmallow root. They both coat the stomach and act as a barrier.

 

[ester]

You could also try slippery elm or marshmallow root. They both coat the stomach and act as a barrier.

but due to that will have an effect on whether other 'treatments' are absorbed.