Spooky Arenas???

[dianchi]

Random question really all about perception.

There is a lovely little local venue that is running eve dressage- deliberately aimed at novices/young rider/horses.
I took baby pony here for her first under saddle outing and she was super and happy and relaxed.

I've recommend this venue to others who state its too spooky for a first outing for them and horse (experienced pair), and it got me thinking:

How much really is it that the rider's fear and mind set of "oh its spooky" that causes spooking?
Or are some horses just due to nature/nuture spooky?

Equally I am going to a county show this sat (god help me-4yo cantering is entertaining to say the least) but I do not expect her to spook nor do I view this as "acceptable". Now does my mind set of we will get on with it and do it "stop" her being spooky?

I appreciate that some situations are OMG (BD nationals for instance) and would cause tension and looking at things that they arent prepared for, and she is becoming more and more hot as she develops and grows up (I like them sparky)- but not spooky or jumpy.

Just makes me wonder- love a bit of Equine Pysch me

 

[Embo]

I think some horses are just spooky by nature but others are influenced heavily by rider.

My horse, for instance, can have silly spooky moments when I ride because I'm not the most confident and will worry about things sometimes. But when my coach rides him, not even a hint of spookiness or insecurity from him. Because she is super confident and in charge of the situation.

So I would say that there are such things as spooky riders!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Hmm interesting, would love it if it was true as Topaz's spooking drives me barmy!

So for Topaz it doesn't matter if I think it might be spooky or not she just decides when she see's it... Sometimes I think OMG she is going to completely freak out and she doesn't and sometimes the most innocent things cause a major reaction.
For instance, area festival last year, we'd completed the test made it all the way back through the warm-up rings with no spooking, when she spotted a lady with a... wait for it.... a TOWEL, the horror!!!! Poor lady was very apologetic for the 180 degree spin and flee that resulted .

Again, the AF Champs at Hartpury, I fully expected it to be the trade stands that upset her or possibly the flowers, it was neither, the thing she spooked most at was the exit to the arena, not the flowers or banners next to the exit more the stuff outside of it.... I expected the atmopsphere to make her tense which it did, but really , the entrance was fine it was just leaving (through the exact same space) that made it scary...

So with her I think the actual spooking at things is more her than me, but I would love it if I can train my youngster to be none spooky! We will be spook training with her and I don't accept any ridiculousness but it's early days.

Can I ask what do you do it they do spook, or is it more you dont expect them to, so they dont, so it s a none problem?

Interesting thread.

x x

 

[Joyous70]

I have a spooky 4 year old, now i have always tried to ride her as if she was old bones, which in the main has done us well so far, however, there are times when she will spook and spin, flee etc., the other week she deposited me in the floor for the first time down to her spooking, but having said that i am not sure that an older horse would have put up with the cause of the spook, a pneumatic tyre gun went off right behind her in the unit next to the arena!

There are times when her spookiness drives me insane, but since we parted company, i believe it has made her think a little more before reacting, the other night something upset her whilst we were in the arena, i felt her tense as if she was going to spook and it was almost like she thought better of it, cats on the other hand are a whole new ball game, and she will spook regardless, i really do not know what her problem is with them? dogs aren't an issue but cats different ball game.

I do think a lot of it can be down to the rider, anticipating there being problems, but sometimes i think the horses personality dictates the way they react to certain things, my girl was quite looky on her recent outing, however the first time she visited this venue she was as cool as a cucumber, I would have expected it to be the other way around, i wasn't expecting any issues on entering the arena the second time we went there but she obviously had other ideas.

Good luck OP with your county show

 

[Antw23uk]

I'm the scariest/ spookiest thing my horse will ever have to deal with and when I'm riding he should be far too busy listening to me to notice anything spooky

 

[shadeofshyness]

I do agree some schools are only spooky in our heads but others do have strange sudden noises and dark corners etc where a prey animal might be scared.

My boy finds our yard's outdoor school spooky, but for fairly sensible reasons I think - it's VERY windy there so there are often bags and things flapping about that he (or I) will catch out of the corner of the eye suddenly. Also it has fairly thick hedges around it, with horses grazing the other side. If he catches sight of a horse moving through the hedge that he hadn't spotted, he'll jump. Sometimes I'll think we're alone and then hear someone cough or shout the other side of the hedge right next to us and it'll make me jump, never mind him!

Other people on our yard also have problems schooling in it and some refuse to use it, but I only found this out after 5 months, thought it was just us being daft.

 

[Joyous70]

I do agree some schools are only spooky in our heads but others do have strange sudden noises and dark corners etc where a prey animal might be scared.

My boy finds our yard's outdoor school spooky, but for fairly sensible reasons I think - it's VERY windy there so there are often bags and things flapping about that he (or I) will catch out of the corner of the eye suddenly. Also it has fairly thick hedges around it, with horses grazing the other side. If he catches sight of a horse moving through the hedge that he hadn't spotted, he'll jump. Sometimes I'll think we're alone and then hear someone cough or shout the other side of the hedge right next to us and it'll make me jump, never mind him!

Other people on our yard also have problems schooling in it and some refuse to use it, but I only found this out after 5 months, thought it was just us being daft.

Our school has a spooky corner, there is a unit that goes 3/4" of the way down the longside, and behind the unit is all manner of scary things stored, with plastic flapping and it changes frequentlya s to whats there, a lot of the horses at our yard dislike this corner

 

[Sukistokes2]

I have found that with my young horse that any real spooks have been caused by me. I have a tendency to look at things and that almost gives him an excuse, so to speak. With his other rider he is much better as she is more focused then me. His worst spook was over a pool party next door to the school, could be forgiven at he time because the kids were bloody loud and doing dive bombs in to the water. Over the next few weeks C became a very scary place. However, I was tense about it and also glancing at the gap in the hedge and really making matters worst. Once I recognized what I was doing I was able to change my behavior and the spooky place went away. So I do tend to think that spooky corners and spooky schools are almost created in the riders mind. Of course some horses are more spooky then others and there are always exceptions.

 

[Suziq77]

I've got 3 horses, 2 of them aren't spooky but the third is - he's the one I acquired as a 14yo whereas I've had the other two from babies. No idea if he'd have been the same or different if I'd had him earlier but what my trainer always tells me with him is "you can't reprimand him for spooking, but you can tell him off for not being in front of your leg". Since I implemented this policy he rarely spooks, unless I forget to stop riding!

 

[wkiwi]

I have just been taking out someones youngster for its first outings and i can't believe some of the comments I hear; e.g. the horse is bound to spook because it is raining/ there are birds flying around/ it is windy/ there are people walking near the edge/ a vehicle went past/ other horses were in the arena etc. etc.
If you start looking for things that the horse can spook at, then it increases the likelihood of it spooking. This is a natural survival instinct because the horse will increase the attention it pays to something when another member of the herd 'notices' something that might be a danger - if the herd member says something is dangerous then the other horses pay attention and avoid it (acts via the 'sympathetic nervous system' and adrenaline flight response). Although this is not the whole story.

---Some spookiness is due to lack of habituation to things (i.e. the horse 'checks out' something novel that might be dangerous), which can be improved. Suziq 77 - I am 100% sure that your spooky horse would not be like he is if you had started him off the same as your own two!!
---Some is due to the rider 'warning' the horse that all these things are dangerous, which again can be improved. Many horses spook with a rider that they never spook at when they have no rider (e.g. in field/stable, being led).
---Some is due to the horse being a flight species and reacting before processing something (again a survival- adrenaline response), which can be overcome to a large extent by training (as mentioned elsewhere in above posts).
---Some is due to eyesight problems, although in reality i think this is blamed sometimes when it is not the eyesight at fault.


There are a number of research studies around that link human and horse effects e.g. one where people leading a horse was told that an umbrella would open suddenly and theirs and the horse's heart rate both went up, even though the horse had no idea there was an umbrella there (this occurred even though the umbrella was not opened, but didn't occur if the person was not told about the umbrella.). there is also some studies matching rider and horse heart rate for dressage; I think someone found that rider's reacted to big competition atmosphere's to a much greater extent than horses, but i don't remember the details.

 

[dianchi]

Can I ask what do you do it they do spook, or is it more you dont expect them to, so they dont, so it s a none problem?

Interesting thread.

x x

Older mare hops about alot (not spooking just has a mental issues/chestnut mare/ sense of humour) so a good seat is a must on her!
But my youngster doesnt spook, might have a look but thats it.

 

[dianchi]

I've got 3 horses, 2 of them aren't spooky but the third is - he's the one I acquired as a 14yo whereas I've had the other two from babies. No idea if he'd have been the same or different if I'd had him earlier but what my trainer always tells me with him is "you can't reprimand him for spooking, but you can tell him off for not being in front of your leg". Since I implemented this policy he rarely spooks, unless I forget to stop riding!

Interesting!

 

[milliepops]

I do think there *are* some spooky arenas - but not in the 'flappy banner or burger stand' kind of spooking. That's usually inattentiveness on behalf of the horse, or rider stiffening up expecting a problem & therefore creating one

My mare is not spooky, she's well travelled and has seen most things. She does pick up tension in a big atmosphere & having evented, she loves the sound of a tannoy but wouldn't spook at a flowerpot etc.

Armas is THE MOST spooky horse. He is both inattentive and daft. I can manage his spooks at banners etc by keeping his attention on me, but he is much more susceptible to atmosphere. We used a friend's arena while we were waiting to have one built at home, and I never got a tune out of him there, even after 7 months of trying. He couldn't settle in there and was convinced there were monsters in the woods nearby etc.

As it happened, I took Armas to our most spooky local venue for his first show. The spooking was the least of my problems. I really wouldn't even factor it in when selecting a venue. Other things are much more important - quiet or busy, size of warmup, etc etc

 

[JGC]

I don't look at things expecting my horse to spook, but I know that overall I conveying to him that I am worried and therefore he spooks. The reason I know is that in lessons, when I have all my attention on what I'm told to do, he never spooks - even in the indoor arena that wants to kill him or the end of the outdoor where the bog monsters live. So I think we can say in my case that I am most definitely the problem!

 

[dianchi]

Would be interested to see in there are any studies on this- bit like the umbrella one above but if you had a sample group of people who said their horse spooks and those that didnt and swapped the riders and look at the results!

 

[Joyous70]

Would be interested to see in there are any studies on this- bit like the umbrella one above but if you had a sample group of people who said their horse spooks and those that didnt and swapped the riders and look at the results!

This would be very interesting

 

[Bernster]

Neither of mine are particularly spooky in the school, and that's the same for previous horses I've had. I do tend to go for more sensible types anyway which would explain it. But it has got me thinking, as mine are def more focussed, and have a really good workmanlike attitude, in the school and am now wondering if I might be affecting that (hopefully in a good way!). Hmm.

Last yard def had a spookier school though, with hedges, dark corners, jump poles, markers that would move, and noisy people in the industrial unit. New yard has a larger more open school with nothing inside and the horses def seem quieter in it, so arena set up can def have an impact, but rider/horse must contribute a fair bit too as otherwise those super duper dressage horses would never get round an international arena !

 

[Lanky Loll]

Mine does depend on her level of attention - a typical spook is hacking out, her being nosy over the hedge and suddenly realising there's someone stood on the other side of the road, cue all four feet off the ground as she literally jumps in shock.
BUT if she's on one then anything is fair game. Took her for a lesson a few weeks back in a huge indoor school (60x40) that she works in quite happily normally. She came off the lorry a bit fresh and snorty then spent 30 minutes spooking and spinning at all sorts. I could almost understand it when she jumped at a door slamming, but the leap and spin because a pony turned a corner to face her was a little ridiculous let alone legging it across the arena because there was something in the corner and suddenly being incapable of going near a jump wing in the middle of the school. There was no particular reason for it but it took about 30 minutes to get her to concentrate on me and behave herself.