Spurs on a 4 year old

[emilylovesotis]

Ok so i posted a month ago asking about using spurs on a 4 yr old as my new horse wasn't listening to my legs when going into canter. Most people suggested just persiting with backing up my leg with my stick but now he has started to just stop in the trot and refush to go forward and when you ask him to move on he will throw a strop and wont move! so i end up turning him round and sending him off in trot the other direction, in which he chooses another point in the school or field to stop at its really frustrating another lady who used to event rides him sometimes and has the same problems she thinks he will grow out of it and praises him for everything he does well.. I don't want to use the spurs but i am gettind fed up but maybe i just need to be more persitent with him seeing as he is only young, what does everyone think, thanks for any advice in advance x

 

[henryhorn]

Find yourself a good instructor and ride him in front of them, you do not need spurs on a youngster.
The problems are of your own giving of signals to him, not him being stupid or reluctant to go.
Your description of his behaviour is classic dont understand scenario.
I would advise teaching him to canter out on a hack not in the school, they naturally fall into canter following another uphill, so find somwhere like that.
Teach him the verbal command canter on the lunge too, then us eit when you want to canter.
The best thing you can do for now is forget canter in the school completely, and concentrate on getting him trotting in straight lines until he goes forward willingly, then try huge circles. Get someone to lunge you with you riding him and let them help you send him forward on the lunge in trot.
You are getting problems because the basics aren't established enough, and sorry , it isn't your horse's fault.
I replied to someone a few days ago that no-one should attmept to bring on a youngster unless they have the experience and riding ability to do it, everything you teach this horse is the foundation for the rest of his life, and being "fed up" is nothing compared to how confused he must be feeling..
He needs clear consistent training so he understands what you want from him, otherwise within a matter of weeks you have a horse who will likely nap for the rest of it's life having learned successully how to do it..
Sorry if this sounds harsh but you need a wake up call, you're the one at fault, not your horse I'm afraid...

 

[xebec]

OK, this is just how my instructor has been helping me with my youngster and I must stress this is not a one size fits all answer. Here in France they teach to sit on the incorrect diagonal which will then make it easier for the horse to strike off correctly. My pone is already used to the voice aids for canter because of the groundwork I've done with her.

My instructor said 1) combine the incorrect diagonal with the canter aids, voice aids and a 'smack on the fesse (bum) - the smack on the bum is her 'aid'. Within a few (2 or 3, no more) transitions she very quickly learned that canter followed sitting on the incorrect diagonal. Also he said to be very careful where you ask for canter, and to keep that place consistent (say between one M and H/ F and K) and then gradually reduce that area to (say) between F-A, A-K, M-C, C-H.

This is my first baby in more than 30 years of riding and owning horses - so this is completely new for me to get inside the head of a youngster.

Personally, rather than resort to spurs I'd send my pone to my instructor - but that's me .

 

[emilylovesotis]

Well i have been having lessons every week for the past while.. maybe i should have mentioned this and we have been concentrating on his trot mainly and not so much on his canter he has only started this nappin recently as i said i don't want to use spurs! and i dont agree with using them on young horses but as this is all he has been used to its hard as hes not very responsive to my leg aids so just thought i'd ask for some advice maybe i will stay quiet next time or just contiune to ask my instructor

 

[xebec]

Don't get snotty with me (by replying on my post I assume you're somehow miffed with what I've said?), I thought I'd been helpful! This will probably incite another such response, but at the moment I never ride without my instructor there - which means 3 (4 sometimes) private lessons a week.

This is just too important a stage in (my) horses life to stuff up because of personal pride! I suppose, at my stage in life I do actually know that I don't know everything....

 

[emilylovesotis]

what snotty ? what do u mean replying on your post i was saying i have an instructor and i am having a lessons whats wrong with that?

 

[xebec]

[ QUOTE ]
what snotty ? what do u mean replying on your post i was saying i have an instructor and i am having a lessons whats wrong with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you see the bit on your second post (4th post down) where it says (in red) 're: xebec' ? That's where you're replying to what I've posted.

The bit I took to be snotty was "maybe i will stay quiet next time or just contiune to ask my instructor".

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe i will stay quiet next time or just contiune to ask my instructor

[/ QUOTE ]

for what its worth I think you have been given some very good advice on here from some experienced people
. It might not be what you want to hear but is sound & I think you would do well to listen.

I think you want us to say 'yes it is ok - put some spurs on' but as the others have mentioned it is not the way forward. Youngsters often struggle to understand schooling and you need to be very clear with your aids & requests. Perhaps use a different instructor who can help you forward? Or can your current instructor have a sit on? Good luck with it.

 

[emilylovesotis]

oh right sorry never knew i was replying to your post i thought it was just in general?
Never meant for you thought your advice was very helpful just thought this
-but you need a wake up call, you're the one at fault, not your horse I'm afraid-
was a bit harsh i have been having lessons with a very good qualified instructor and she doesn't seem to think its my fault. I accept everyones advice as this is what this forums about but some things people say can be a little harsh

 

[siani1989]

what the hell is wrong with using spurs like the french lass said i think back it up with a whip on the bum i think i would rather use spurs than use a god damn whip, i do not thinks whips have much affect anyway so dont bother with them , now with spurs this is just a better aid to back your leg up so feel them more, if it will work then what the hell is wrong with using them,just got to say each to there own not wanting to strt another stupid snotty argument with u peepz toodleoo

 

[arwenplusone]

eh?????

 

[siani1989]

just to add---------
and young horses are young horses they have moods and strops dont see how its is always the riders fault.. little bit harsh to say as horses can have moods which arent always ur fault!

 

[MooMoo]

he's just a baby. i'm not going to pretend to know much about it but its almost like he's going "ahh, i'm confused!". patience may be needed as you cant rush it and some more advice from your instructor. good luck!

and btw to the person who decided to have a rant, it is possible to disagree with others and make a constructive contribution without going off on one. personally i find this a really interesting topic so it would be good to see what different points of view are.

to be fair maybe the last little bit on the first reply was a bit harsh but i'm sure they just feel its important to get it right with a younger horse. again...good luck!

 

[PapaFrita]

Personally, I think spurs are overrated and a schooling whip is far more effective when you have a horse that's a bit dead to the leg.

 

[siani1989]

by the way it was not a rant just gettin my point across thank you!

 

[Syrah]

My anaology - bear with me

You have a 2 year old child and an 11 year old child. Now have a think about what you would expect a 2 year old to understand what an 11 year old would understand.

Now, if you wanted a 2 year old to pick up a ball that's to the left of them, how would you instruct them to do it? What would you expect them to understand? They would most likely know what a ball is, but would they know their left to their right? Would me giving them a good slap, jab on the left help them, being forceful in showing them their left?

See where I'm going yet?

Same with the 11 year old. Now I still wouldn't slap an 11year old (don't misunderstand my use of words), but I would expect an 11 year old to know their left and right and would probably be a bit more forceful in pointing out the left hand side.

Anyway, before I bore you all to death, my chinese takeaway is here.

Have a think about it.

And no, I would'nt slap hell out of a 4 year old horse with a whip either.

 

[BankEndRescue]

personally I do not agree with using spurs on a youngster. I'd suggest concentrating on your walk and trot work with lots of up and down transitions and changes of rein in the school to make your horse listen more to your leg, he's just a baby as you say and these things take time but it has to be done correctly and slowly now or as henryhorn says you could end up with a barrel load of problems later on. Good luck

 

[xebec]

[ QUOTE ]


And no, I would'nt <font color="red"> slap hell</font> out of a 4 year old horse with a whip either.

[/ QUOTE ]

? ? I'm confused - point me to the post where that was recommended.

 

[Adina]

Have to say I agree with HenryHorn. Sounds like there are 2 things going on here. First horse is confused and secondly he is weak - after all he is only 4.
I had major problems with canter when my horse was young(he's now 15) and the usual advice of "ask in the corner, do a few sstrides and stop" was no help at all. Then I had help from an event rider who said that the horse was hung up on the strike off and found it all difficult because he was immature. So horse was taught commands on the lunge. Then cantering on huge circles on loose rein in light seat. Wrong leg right leg canter was praised lots. Never mind neat correct aids - "pony club kicks" would do. Important that he could canter long enough to find out what was comfortable. When he had lost the hang ups, we could start conventional aids. The correct strike off was easy for him once he'd worked out for himself the easiest lead on a circle.

 

[Syrah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


And no, I would'nt <font color="red"> slap hell</font> out of a 4 year old horse with a whip either.

[/ QUOTE ]

? ? I'm confused - point me to the post where that was recommended.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say it was recommended by anyone, it's my choice of words.

Just as the rest of my post was

 

[madhector]

[ QUOTE ]
Find yourself a good instructor and ride him in front of them, you do not need spurs on a youngster.
The problems are of your own giving of signals to him, not him being stupid or reluctant to go.
Your description of his behaviour is classic dont understand scenario.
I would advise teaching him to canter out on a hack not in the school, they naturally fall into canter following another uphill, so find somwhere like that.
Teach him the verbal command canter on the lunge too, then us eit when you want to canter.
The best thing you can do for now is forget canter in the school completely, and concentrate on getting him trotting in straight lines until he goes forward willingly, then try huge circles. Get someone to lunge you with you riding him and let them help you send him forward on the lunge in trot.
You are getting problems because the basics aren't established enough, and sorry , it isn't your horse's fault.
I replied to someone a few days ago that no-one should attmept to bring on a youngster unless they have the experience and riding ability to do it, everything you teach this horse is the foundation for the rest of his life, and being "fed up" is nothing compared to how confused he must be feeling..
He needs clear consistent training so he understands what you want from him, otherwise within a matter of weeks you have a horse who will likely nap for the rest of it's life having learned successully how to do it..
Sorry if this sounds harsh but you need a wake up call, you're the one at fault, not your horse I'm afraid...

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly, sorry but I have had too many horses in with napping issues caused by having too inexperienced riders bringing them on

 

[shirleyno2]

goodness me, all these opinions- thought I'd add mine! I produce a good number of 4 year olds, they are all individuals, and are all treated as such, a well bred sharp mind can very easily take the mick if you let it. If you are having Instruction with a competant trainer then spurs can be an excellent "training aid". You can buy many different types from softly rounded ones to the big wheels! I don't feel I can tell you what to do as I wouldn't give a black and white response on this via a forum, only advice! But to clarify, it's horses for courses and try them, be lucky

 

[spider]

My horse did this when young. Just be persistant and he will grow out of it. As another poster said take him out hacking - he will learn a lot.

 

[xebec]

[ QUOTE ]


I didn't say it was recommended by anyone, it's my choice of words.

Just as the rest of my post was

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, perhaps it might be best to actually keep 'choice of words' in context?

 

[Syrah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I didn't say it was recommended by anyone, it's my choice of words.

Just as the rest of my post was

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, perhaps it might be best to actually keep 'choice of words' in context?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thanks for the advice. I'll bear it in mind next time I see you posting

 

[arwenplusone]

good grief! Mollywops - I liked your analogy of the children, illustrated the point very well. Nothing wrong with your choice of words at all!

 

[Sal_E]

I don't think you need to find a way to a stronger aid (i.e. spurs, or other method), but you need to find an approach to napping, which is basically what he's doing - using spurs on a napping horse will just create bigger napping, not resolve the problem - unless of course you are prepared for full on 'fight it out' which personally I think is a pretty ignorant approach to any horse, regardless of age.

So, speak to your instructor (or possible a new one?) about a good approach to napping - not an approach to going faster...

Personally, I don't think that turning him round &amp; going the other way until he does the same in the other direction is working, so you need something different. I would let him stand still, in fact MAKE him stand still for waaay longer than he wants. But DEAD still, no fidgetting, not even his head (this is subject to him being the sort that would not rear in this circumstance - I don't know the horse but do NOT let him learn to rear). Then, when you ask him to go on, he should be hanging on your every word, desperate for your forward request. Praise him greatly for gong forwards. Then when he stops again, do the same again. Eventually he'll learn that stopping is boring, when you say go forwards, he WANTS to go forwards. No confrontation is needed, no stress, no hassle, just patience &amp; lots of it!

Can I stress again, this only works if he's not the sort to rear...

 

[Syrah]

Thank you

 

[caemar1]

When I backed my pony last year as a 4 year old she couldn't canter more than a few strides in the school.

She did it perfectly on the lunge though so a few lunging sessions with me riding her at the same time helped.

The main benefit to my pony though was hacking, as suggested earlier, she soon got the idea that a nice canter across fields with her friends was fun not a chore.

Now, at 5, she knows the aids and will canter fine in the school, although she struggles to hold it for a long time, which I put down to her lack of strength compared to an older horse and we are building up gradually.

As for your original question on whether to use spurs or not, I cannot answer that, all are different.

The advice I would like to give you though is be patient, youngsters are much harder work than adults and very draining physically and emotionally, however the feeling you get when something clicks, even if it is a tiny milestone makes it all worthwhile.

Good luck!!

 

[xebec]

Ooooh dear - in't forum life fun

.

I actually fully agree with Mollywop's analogy - I simply take issue with her condemning a course of action (slapping the hell out of a horse) when it had never actually been recommended - let alone mentioned - on this thread.