Spurs on a 4 year old

[henryhorn]

I'm sorry but if you ask for advice the majority of the time people try to help, and in this case I probably came over a bit strong because experience has taught me how easy it is to spoil a decent horse.
Often the reply isn't what you would like to hear, but if you want to continue to enjoy your horse for a good number of years, you have to be so very careful how you train it to start with.
If it's safe where you keep him, hacking is the best method of getting him going forward and building up some muscle. You need to be able to use your schooling whip effectively, so please ignore anyone who suggests whacking him on the bum, use it to reinforce your leg aid in a flicking type way, and harder if he doesn't respond. You can have a schooling whip in each hand which works well too.
As I suggested, use your voice aid if he doesn't respond as well as the whip behind your leg.
The poster who said all horses are individuals is correct, but the training for all is the same, they have to go forward from your aids , and you have to be firm and correct about giving them.

How does your horse go for your instructor? Does it go easily for her or just as reluctantly. perhaps have a lesson where she actually teaches you how to get him off your leg?
Finally are you sure there are no underlying issues like a badly fitting piece of tack or soreness anywhere?
I am really sorry if you feel you daren't post again, and if so I apologise, in my haste to help I came over tougher than I meant to!
I can count the number of youngsters I've started in the hundreds over 40 plus years, so I'm not talking guesswork when I offer advice, most people buy one of ours the first time they ride one, they are so willing and well mannered, admittedly we have a good system going after years of doing it but all you have to remember is not to teach bad habits, the rest is easy..
and you don't need spurs until a lot further along the training, otherwise you end up with yet more problems..

 

[emilylovesotis]

thanks for everyones advice, i think my post should have been more on the topic of napping more than using the spurs, , a few other people say to give him some time off but maybe i should try a new instructor.

 

[Ashkadog]

How is he out hacking? Would it be worth working and teaching him to go forward out on a ride where the presure is off him for a bit? You can do quite a bit of basic schooling out hacking without them even realising it. As far as the spurs go, I must admit I am a little half and half as I would rather pop some small rounded spurs on and get them off my leg without banging and kicking around so they eventually go dead to my leg but in this situation I would just go back a stage and work him outside of the arena to teach him to go forward.

 

[Marchtime]

OP - I'll probably get told off now but I used spurs on my youngster *ssshh*. I got him when he was 4yrs old and he had been professionally backed by a strong, tall man who was a professional eventer. I'm 5ft4 and at the time weighed about half what this man weighed. I spent six months trying what everyone else has suggested. I never rode without my instructor and tried hacking etc however my darling TB was simply a lazy sod! Eventually someone pointed out that it would probably be kinder to wear spurs and only use them lightly than sit there pony club kicking ever stride. Like yours mine used to simply stop. Now five years on not even my instructor rides him without spurs. He is very responsive and perfectly behaved but he is nonetheless lazy. As long as spurs are used correctly and not excessively I think they have their uses even with youngsters. And obviously I'm talking about a small pair of blunt spurs - nothing too excessive.

 

[pixiebee]

ok my 2pence worth- spurs are an 'aid' to help make the leg aids clear to the horse-on a youngster that is not listening or maybe not understanding the leg aid-surely it is made clearer to the horse than a large surface area like the inside of your heel/foot-whatever you want to call it? for example, canter aid, leg behind girth with spur is more obvious than blunt heel? Besides when using spurs correctly they only come into effect with a turn of the ankle so try heel first then if no response, a little tap tap with the spur backed up by voice is better than pony club kicking and teaching a horse how not to respond to the leg??????? could be wrong ofcourse!!

 

[YorksG]

To add my twopennoth' I worry about youngsters being overworked in schools, doing small circles etc when they need the educational stimulus of going out and about with older more worldly wise animals. Often they would also benefit from learning more manners from the ground and on the ground.

 

[henryhorn]

I am not anti spurs at all, but I am anti inexperienced riders using them.
There is a massive difference in using a schooling whip correctly and Pony Club kicking, I haven't actually heard anyone advocate doing that in replies have you?
I think the original post was the person's 4 year old had slowly become more nappy and reluctant to respond to the aids, which to me hints that perhaps she is a bit inexperienced or she wouldn't be posting the question.
Some horses go much better in spurs, our stallion is one of them, but we wouldn't get on a young 4 year old with them as there are better methods of getting them going. The scenario I got was this horse is slowly starting to nap and refuse to go forwards, and she wondered if using spurs would solve it. Well no, it won't, and that's why I attempted to advise her that her basic work needs to be hacking and straight lines not worrying about if it would canter just yet.
Nearly every time a young horse does the stand still route it's because it really doesn't understand what's being asked of it, and using spurs in that case won't help at all.. once the horse has confidence in it's rider it will go from much less leg, but I would recommend her shcooling is done on hacks, not in the school for a few weeks until it is going forward easily again.

 

[pixiebee]

ahhh, now I read it as, that it has always done this not started just now.....thats different then-fair point.

 

[SAMgirl]

I think it is up to the individual rider to make an informed decision (being honest with themselves about their own ability) whether spurs are a good idea or not. Sometimes they are useful, sometimes not.
Like other posters, I am an experienced rider, I have had many horses for schooling with massive napping issues. My own rising 4 yo will nap - not because he is bad/naughty or doesn't understand - He DOES understand my aid to go forward, he LACKS CONFIDENCE as his nature (instinct) is very spooky - so he plants himself. Now because he is having a crisis of confidence - you CANNOT (and i wouldn't) bully him through it - by attacking him in this way he will only lose more confidence, and is LESS likely to go forward (more likely upward, as mum is pushing so hard for forwards but mentally that isn't an option for him - which directions are left?). He needs riding confidently, strongly but VERY quietly - but if he then plants himself anyway and HE DECIDES to ignore me encouraging him, HE has three chances to correct HIMSELF before he gets into trouble. When I say forward it doesn't matter whether it's a tentative half a step or he gallops off at 100mph. A young horse MUST learn to go FORWARD from the riders aids - this is SO IMPORTANT. IMO if you could only teach a 3/4yo one thing it would be that.
My young horse has a beautiful nature - sure he can try and take the mickey sometimes - I would think there is something wrong with a baby that never tests their boundries. Ultimately what kind of message are you giving him, if every time he has a wibble and withdraws into himself (introvert) you batter seven bells out of him, similarly I am very patient and when the horse IS NOT TENSE - if he ignores me - he will get a smack.
I would say to the OP that firstly insure that your horse isn't having some physical conflict - particularly if he is young it can be teething? Back etc. Your horse "sounds" like he is never truly going forwards (as the napping has progressed slowly - perhaps taking the mick a little bit) IMO, BUT you must judge for yourself whether:
1. YOUR HORSE IS NOT TENSING UP when asking for the canter transition, as too tense = can't canter. If this is the case more establish a more forwards and through way of going.
2. Your horse is TRULY forwards in his trot and walk work - as it is very difficult for a weak baby horse to go from a half hearted trot into canter - it is easier for him to stop as majority of young horses really need momentum in the canter work. Again establish a more forwards and through way of going - use long lines for this and transitions to ensure he stays infront of the leg aids.

And to finish - I would advise on the young horses ONLY to use the whip or spur when you believe it will have the desired effect - FORWARDS. If your horse is tense (like mine), you have to judge when the tension has stopped and the piss taking starts. I will only smack my horse when I feel there is a 90% chance he will react in the way I want him to. When he is tense, he will just plant himself and buck until the cows come home - you have to wait, establish some relaxation, encourage him first then tell him off IF he point blank refuses (even half a step forwards at this stage should be followed by bountiful gratuitous praise)! - usually getting him relaxed will reignite his desire to go forwards anyway.

 

[pixiebee]

very very well said!!

 

[Laafet]

Well many dressage riders use spurs on their just broken 3 y o's, apparently to get them sharp off the leg, sighs...... and to think we never ride our racehorses in them.

 

[SAMgirl]

I know what you mean, and it is stupid! If only horses were that straight forward! lol! But I also agree with Rachelthegreat's post aswell though about sometimes spurs can help clarify the leg aid.