Spurs or no spurs?

Goldenstar said:
Yawn ,
You do want with you're horse and we'll do what we want with ours .
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Well said. Appears to be too many people in the horse world that butt in with their 'I'm always right' opinions, stamping all over anyone else's way of riding and branding them as 'cruel' when it doesn't correspond with their ideas.

Just go ride your own horse bareback with no whip, spurs or bridle and just get on with it. Leave everyone else to do their own thing. Thanks!
 
I am Dutch/English but thats no ones biusness by my own. Its Koen, Koo-en Not Co-en. 99% chance the English cannot pronounce Dutch.

Of course the horse is not jumping a barbed wire fence!

The advert is in extreme poor taste. Horses are not toys to be tossed aside when they're broken for another one.

People seem more intersted in me my grammar family history and and and than the subject at hand. Im willing to bet thats because they have no other way of supporting their piss poor arguments.
 
Koen said:
.......

People seem more intersted in me my grammar family history and and and than the subject at hand. Im willing to bet thats because they have no other way of supporting their piss poor arguments.
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Whilst it's often true that those who seem to be running out of steam, tend to offer insults, and you'll accept that you too have availed yourself of this weakness, the one question which I don't understand, and perhaps you can answer, is why if you're so convinced that the bulk of top class riders use spurs and incorrectly, why we haven't seen your name in lights as having a preferred or improved method of achieving an end result.

It's a pointless exercise telling people that they are wrong, the real trick is to demonstrate your point. Are you able to show the world just how right you are and how wrong they are, and by practical demonstration?

Alec.
 
Alec, I think Koen already has. Spurs are the work of the devil but Rolkur's "waiting aids". Double bridles, quick call the RSPCA, but whips, no problemo. And Koen, you've been insulting all and sundry with nearly every thread, what goes around......
 
Koen said:
I am Dutch/English but thats no ones biusness by my own. Its Koen, Koo-en Not Co-en. 99% chance the English cannot pronounce Dutch.

Of course the horse is not jumping a barbed wire fence!

The advert is in extreme poor taste. Horses are not toys to be tossed aside when they're broken for another one.

People seem more intersted in me my grammar family history and and and than the subject at hand. Im willing to bet thats because they have no other way of supporting their piss poor arguments.
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You have an extremely unpleasant way of expressing yourself .
Why on earth do you make the assumption that people who have "broken " their hunter cast it aside ?
If we are unfortunate enough to " break " a hunter we get our cheque book and go and find another that certainly does not mean that the "broken " one is not getting the best care and attention at home .
 
What I don't get is, the thread is "Spurs or no spurs". Koen has said that spurs should be banned, however, when comparing 2 videos both riders are wearing spurs? Shouldn't we be shown a video of a rider performing high level dressage moves NOT wearing spurs?
 
Koen said:
The advert is in extreme poor taste. Horses are not toys to be tossed aside when they're broken for another one.
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It's in slightly poor taste, imo. (It's subjective.) You have to factor in the English sense of humour. I don't see the advert as implying the typical reader would really believe horses are mere objects to be discarded when injured.
 
Koen said:
I am Dutch/English but thats no ones biusness by my own. Its Koen, Koo-en Not Co-en. 99% chance the English cannot pronounce Dutch.
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Actually, to explain how your username is pronounced in English, you should write "Ku-hn" or "Koohn". With a very short "ooh" sound in the middle. Otherwise you will have them pronouncing an English "e" sound in it. I was puzzled, because your English usage shows no Dutch traits.

Koen said:
People seem more intersted in me my grammar family history and and and than the subject at hand. Im willing to bet thats because they have no other way of supporting their piss poor arguments.
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Its because you haven't engaged with your audience and your content is defective. Don't blame the majority, look for the fault in yourself. And be thankful that your faults should be pointed out to you!
 
Koen - I've read the thread, and I am trying to understand you, but I'm confused about your perception of the purpose of spurs. You seem to suggest that they are used to force an unwilling horse to go forward, and that is not my understanding of why we use them. I have always ridden in spurs, and can say with my hand on my heart, that I have never used them to make a horse go forward. I use them to refine the aid for certain movements, in order that the horse is clear about what I am asking. A highly trained horse is a sensitive beast, and it is very easy, without a way of refining the aid you give, to ask for one thing, and get another, purely because the large surface area of the the lower leg produces an imprecise aid, whereas a light touch with a spur in a specific area provides a clear indication to the horse that you are asking for a specific movement. i don't profess to be anything particularly special, but i have ridden at a reasonable level, and had the opportunity to ride some top level GP dressage horses. My own horse is a former PSG horse, with all the GP moves installed, so I have a reasonable understanding of how a horse should go, and how to ride the more advanced movements. I couldn't ride a canter zig zag on my horse without spurs, because he is very much a "buttons" horse. If I touch the correct button with my spur, he responds precisely, staying relaxed and through. If I try to ride movements without spurs, he gets tense and strong and frustrated, because he is not accustomed to being ridden in a more agricultural way. He ALWAYS lets me know if he is unhappy, sometimes in spectacular fashion, so i am pretty confident that he would tell me if me riding him in spurs was a problem for him.
 
Koen said:
I am Dutch/English but thats no ones biusness by my own. Its Koen, Koo-en Not Co-en. 99% chance the English cannot pronounce Dutch.

Of course the horse is not jumping a barbed wire fence!

The advert is in extreme poor taste. Horses are not toys to be tossed aside when they're broken for another one.

People seem more intersted in me my grammar family history and and and than the subject at hand. Im willing to bet thats because they have no other way of supporting their piss poor arguments.
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Look, the British Nation is far superior to Holland in terms of language and common sense. Get over your inferiority complex and focus on your obvious cannabis addiction - a common side effect is paranoia.
 
blazingsaddles said:
Look, the British Nation is far superior to Holland in terms of language and common sense. Get over your inferiority complex and focus on your obvious cannabis addiction - a common side effect is paranoia.
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I love you, it's true!! To date, the post of the year!! :cool::cool::D

Any nation which spawns a child who sticks his finger in a dyke, in the hope of anything worthwhile, has to be questionable, at best. Then there's all those sodding tulips, and the place is so flat, and the cheese is a con, it's filled with holes, God I could go on.

Mind you, there were one or two of them who were fairly handy with a paint brush weren't there? But then to counter that, they gave us Van Moyden, and what did he gives us? The Fens, and a strange set of inbred (sorry, line-bred) bods.

On balance, I'm with you! :wink3:

Alec.
 
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what the hell are buttons, are there also buttonholes ? riding in an agricultural way? blimey that's a new one, and how the hell does one put words in someone else's mouth, mickeyjoe,????? are you calling me a liar? because you are dead wrong matey!!!!! and please feel free to direct who you want, where you want!!!! because i am in no doubt he would be only too willing to tell you himself and support his opinion with casenotes!!!!!!
 
Mithras said:
I think Koen is a wonderful creation sorry character and I rather liked the "riding in an agricultural way" expression - I might use it one day!
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Sorry I can't give you permission as its not something I wrote. I couldn't possibly read all the posts far too much nonsense so don't know who you would need to be quoting either.

For the rest on this page if it's about sport horses well yes the Dutch certainly are ahead of the field, in fact even the Belgians are compared to the UK along with Ireland Germany France and etc.

Its not my intention to further this rational inferiority complex because its not the topic of conservation, but it does make it clear where the general attitude has its roots.

****** me why the British cant breed a decent dressage horse I don't care very much, keeps the Dutch and Germans in business.
 
Alec Swan said:
I have to ask Koen, but do you have a relative who's also an authority on Ragwort?

Alec.
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*snort*

Koen said:
It has to be said the exception is that a horse in Piaffe certainly needs a certain amount of asked for controlled tension certainly at the level required to come into any kind of contention at todays levels. The horse cannot achieve this without high levels of energy unless there is abuse of spurs.
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I start to train piaffe with a piaffe whip on the ground. How do YOU train piaffe, Koen?

Alec Swan said:
Any nation which spawns a child who sticks his finger in a dyke, in the hope of anything worthwhile, has to be questionable, at best. Then there's all those sodding tulips, and the place is so flat, and the cheese is a con, it's filled with holes, God I could go on.
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Alec! :eek3: :D :D :D :D
 
tristar said:
what the hell are buttons, are there also buttonholes ? riding in an agricultural way? blimey that's a new one, and how the hell does one put words in someone else's mouth, mickeyjoe,????? are you calling me a liar? because you are dead wrong matey!!!!! and please feel free to direct who you want, where you want!!!! because i am in no doubt he would be only too willing to tell you himself and support his opinion with casenotes!!!!!!
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Not replying to the ranty bit, but it was me who mentioned "buttons" and "agricultural". If you've ever ridden a really highly schooled horse, you will realise that you need to apply the aids for specific movements in a precise way, in a specific area. It is similar to pushing a button, hence the oft-used expression.
And riding in an agricultural way - kicking and pulling.

Seems pretty clear to me!
 
Koen said:
Sorry I can't give you permission as its not something I wrote. I couldn't possibly read all the posts far too much nonsense so don't know who you would need to be quoting either.

For the rest on this page if it's about sport horses well yes the Dutch certainly are ahead of the field, in fact even the Belgians are compared to the UK along with Ireland Germany France and etc.

Its not my intention to further this rational inferiority complex because its not the topic of conservation, but it does make it clear where the general attitude has its roots.

****** me why the British cant breed a decent dressage horse I don't care very much, keeps the Dutch and Germans in business.
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I think that - having made such a fuss, you could at least do people the courtesy of reading all the posts that YOU provoked. i'd certainly like an answer to mine!
 
tristar said:
what the hell are buttons, are there also buttonholes ? riding in an agricultural way? blimey that's a new one, and how the hell does one put words in someone else's mouth, mickeyjoe,????? are you calling me a liar? because you are dead wrong matey!!!!! and please feel free to direct who you want, where you want!!!! because i am in no doubt he would be only too willing to tell you himself and support his opinion with casenotes!!!!!!
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Firstly, Im not your "matey" and secondly I find it bizarre that someone who's professional business is equine osteopathy would base themselves in a country halfway around the world to practice if their opinion was that it was in the "dark ages". Thirdly.. having casenotes detailing such a sweeping statement is also weird, unless he only practices on horses from those elements of society who are sure as hell not representative of the responsible, professional irish horse circles I know. Of course there is bad horse care in Ireland as there also is in the UK and indeed Australia, but to suggest as a nation that we are in the dark ages is highly offensive to responsible irish horse people.
Oh and it's not the same person by the way.. the person I know is a woman..
 
Having just been asked to vote the H&H forum "best social network" title for 2014 in the Equestrian Social Media Awards Im left a bit puzzled. It has put me in a very good mood, though. In fact I laughed out loud I found it so funny.

Far too much sentimental clap trap and Nationalism to make it worthy of that title. Moderation also appears to be completely absent besides for the Auto Moderation of words that actually would seem highly pertinent in this thread, primarily "what the ****".

Threads being hijacked and completely trashed by a hard core of extremely sad individuals desperate for attention all makes for not a very social network.

My personal opinions on the use of spurs is clear. Their sanctioned use in the world of equestrian sport and in some their mandatory use needs an urgent rethink 2014.

This right to bear arms type attitude is appalling and I would like to think it's not a British disease but on the basis of the sentiment behind a great deal of the "arguments" here Im not entirely sure that it isn't.

With the increased international based nature of our sport the welfare of the horse everywhere comes before any single insular, nationalistic sentiment and so it should.

Sanctioning the use of spurs under the FEI causes indirect and in some cases direct abuse. This should end. The degree of abuse is not a topic of debate.
 
If you read your terms and conditions then it states this forum is not moderated all the time. That's what the report buttons for.
 
Koen said:
Having just been asked to vote the H&H forum "best social network" title for 2014 in the Equestrian Social Media Awards Im left a bit puzzled. It has put me in a very good mood, though. In fact I laughed out loud I found it so funny.

Far too much sentimental clap trap and Nationalism to make it worthy of that title. Moderation also appears to be completely absent besides for the Auto Moderation of words that actually would seem highly pertinent in this thread, primarily "what the ****".

Threads being hijacked and completely trashed by a hard core of extremely sad individuals desperate for attention all makes for not a very social network.

My personal opinions on the use of spurs is clear. Their sanctioned use in the world of equestrian sport and in some their mandatory use needs an urgent rethink 2014.

This right to bear arms type attitude is appalling and I would like to think it's not a British disease but on the basis of the sentiment behind a great deal of the "arguments" here Im not entirely sure that it isn't.

With the increased international based nature of our sport the welfare of the horse everywhere comes before any single insular, nationalistic sentiment and so it should.

Sanctioning the use of spurs under the FEI causes indirect and in some cases direct abuse. This should end. The degree of abuse is not a topic of debate.
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Oh for goodness sake. Have you run out of argument or something?

I tried to communicate with you in a reasonable way. I asked questions, rather than just bellowing at you, and I was genuinely interested in your opinion on a particular scenario. You completely ignored me, in favour of having a rant about the forum. I can only conclude that you are only here to wind people up and shout your opinions from the rooftop, without making any effort to engage in ACTUAL discussion. Really annoys me when I make an effort, and get it chucked back in my face.
 
Koen said:
.......The degree of abuse is not a topic of debate.
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I suspect that you may very well be missing the point. The degree of abuse 'is' the point, it's just the point. From a young age you teach a horse to be accepting of man. Try that on an adult and un-handled animal, and your going to find it hard work. The young are more compliant. The simple fact is that they don't really want to comply with our wishes.

A horse is taught to accept what it doesn't want, a steel bar in its mouth, and a human on its back; a human forcing its will on to the animal, teaching it to accept that as the human has a greater IQ so it's going to be the eventual winner, and that the horse may just as well acquiesce, as it's never going to win.

Is the above paragraph, to you, an acceptable resume of the horse and man relationship? Is the above description not abuse? If you accept that man is forcing an animal to comply, then is that, however acceptable, not a form of abuse? Shouldn't we be keeping horses in fields surrounded by their friends and living their lives as they wish, rather than as we would have them?

Abuse is a subjective word and it is generally a matter of 'degree', in my view. Are spurs acceptable? If they're used in a humane manner, then yes, of course they are, just as are the whip and the bit.

I'm sorry Koen, but you really are talking out of your arse, and you're simply extending an argument which isn't really to do with right and wrong, but one which centres around an opinion, yours!

Alec.
 
What a shame you can't enter into an interesting discussion with others, but instead go off on weird rants.

It really does your 'cause' no favours.

People take the time to respond to particular parts of your posts and you completely ignore them, just spouting a load of angry drively instead. It's not very polite.
 
Auslander said:
Oh for goodness sake. Have you run out of argument or something?

I tried to communicate with you in a reasonable way. I asked questions, rather than just bellowing at you, and I was genuinely interested in your opinion on a particular scenario. You completely ignored me
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Sorry to deflate your grotesquely inflated outrage and sense of importance, but did anyone call you a "drug addict" or a "fraud", or a blah blah on the basis of an opinion expressed and a question of possible nationality?

Your post got smothered in the same dross spewed left right and centre on this thread as anyone else's with possible genuine intent. Hardly my responsibility take it up with the spewers. You have proved with this post you are no better than they are.

Obviously your "buttons" approach to dressage is not working or you wouldn't be so shrill for a reply. Im sure the world wide web might assist you in that, might I suggest "dressage by numbers".

Im not obligated to help you out and nor do I feel in any way obliged to either at this point.

Im quite obviously mistaken about the level of the forum. Kindergarten drivel doesn't interest me enough.
 
Kindergarten drivel!!!!! my oh my koen thats rich from you lol. So I will ask again the question I have asked you before and as yet no answer - to what level have you ridden to. Not that im expecting an answer lol
 
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