Spurs or no spurs?

Koen said:
Its difficult to believe this horse is Intermediate (iaire - "less of the jargon please" this is an English forum :) The extension might improve when he gets to learn to passage, though. But it's looking very flat and on the forehand imo. That nose band is not helping to do anything but clamp his mouth shut.

Why the picture anyway?

I was a fan of Giddy, Carol Parsons horse, a Shire cross. What's your point?

The breed is not so important, if the horse is willing. If you can help it it helps to start with something easier, even the "throw away" TB plenty of those around.

You can often tell if they are going to go all the way, they have that something extra.
Click to expand...

Picture was a BIG mistake, as you've been beastly about a really lovely old horse. It was in reference to the fact that you were scathing about British Breeding, and this is a british bred horse who has done pretty well.

Not quite sure how you can judge him based on one picture, but hey. He retired from competition due to soundness issues, but has a consistent record at PSG, points at Inter, and was training at GP at home. You may not think this is anything special for a horse of his type, but I do. He's very special to me, and I would defend his honour to the death. Sure the picture isn't perfect, but I like it because his temperament, and willingness to try his heart out shine through.
Incidentally, this combination were trained by Carol Parsons - she liked him a lot.
 
since when was intermediaire jargon?.... are we not to call it prix st george either? or grand prix??

I'm a lost cause, I hack in spurs on a welsh cob who already has oats.......

damn
 
Auslander said:
Picture was a BIG mistake, as you've been beastly about a really lovely old horse. It was in reference to the fact that you were scathing about British Breeding, and this is a british bred horse who has done pretty well.

Not quite sure how you can judge him based on one picture, but hey. He retired from competition due to soundness issues, but has a consistent record at PSG, points at Inter, and was training at GP at home. You may not think this is anything special for a horse of his type, but I do. He's very special to me, and I would defend his honour to the death. Sure the picture isn't perfect, but I like it because his temperament, and willingness to try his heart out shine through.
Incidentally, this combination were trained by Carol Parsons - she liked him a lot.
Click to expand...

I wasn't at all beastly? In fact I was showing concern for the horse.

No you can't always judge from one picture but in this case it is enough surely? He doesn't look happy, spurs would not "refine these aids".

Im not sure this is the best of Britain though if you were wanting British breeding to shine. Sure a lot of these cross breeds are bred in the UK more so than on the continent definitely. It's tradition. They don't make the best dressage horses no, to coin a phrase they are more suited to the "agricultural way" of going or pursuits.

Don't get me wrong I didn't admire Giddy because he was a Shire cross (straight up) but because he gave a bloody good test the one and only time I saw him and had oodles of presence.

Britain didn't and still doesn't honestly have a broad base from which to breed a modern dressage horse, the UK is heavily reliant on imports and probably always will be. You need front and you need elegance which all came from carriage horses on the continent, not shires. The closest thing the UK has is the almost extinct Cleveland bay but even here the action and front is rather limited from what I've seen. Anyway no point in starting from scratch when when there are enough warm bloods to fill an ocean.

Besides now that Charlotte is all the rage amongst judges maybe she can start riding British. Im of the opinion horses are made as much as they are bred for anything.

p.s. (aren't they all? Lovely, special and dear)
 
Koen said:
I wasn't at all beastly? In fact I was showing concern for the horse.

No you can't always judge from one picture but in this case it is enough surely? He doesn't look happy, spurs would not "refine these aids".

Im not sure this is the best of Britain though if you were wanting British breeding to shine. Sure a lot of these cross breeds are bred in the UK more so than on the continent definitely. It's tradition. They don't make the best dressage horses no, to coin a phrase they are more suited to the "agricultural way" of going or pursuits.

Don't get me wrong I didn't admire Giddy because he was a Shire cross (straight up) but because he gave a bloody good test the one and only time I saw him and had oodles of presence.

Britain didn't and still doesn't honestly have a broad base from which to breed a modern dressage horse, the UK is heavily reliant on imports and probably always will be. You need front and you need elegance which all came from carriage horses on the continent, not shires. The closest thing the UK has is the almost extinct Cleveland bay but even here the action and front is rather limited from what I've seen. Anyway no point in starting from scratch when when there are enough warm bloods to fill an ocean.

Besides now that Charlotte is all the rage amongst judges maybe she can start riding British. Im of the opinion horses are made as much as they are bred for anything.

p.s. (aren't they all? Lovely, special and dear)
Click to expand...

I can assure you that you have no need to be concerned about this horse. he is, and always has been very much loved, and appreciated - and gives every indication of enjoying his work immensely. He is, despite what you seem to think, very light and has a lot of presence. I don't see an unhappy horse in this picture - just one who is concentrating on his job. He doesn't have the extremely flashy paces of a warmblood, but he is very trainable, very willing, and an out and out trier. He does get strong, and I agree that you can see it in this photo, but to say he is more suited to an agricultural way of riding is a step too far! He far exceeded his original owners expectations of him. Since retiring from competition, he has taught many an aspiring dressage rider the advanced movements, and was selected as a squad horse for the Beiijing Paralympics. He was never going to be a top GP horse, but he has proven himself time and time again to be very very special. Say what you like - he deserves better than to be criticised on an internet forum by someone who has never seen him or ridden him. He may not be Valegro, but what he has achieved, though temperament, trainability and sheer big heartedness is as good an advert for British-breeding as any.
 
Goodness, I'd rather go and resurrect the pro ragwort threads than read this. It started out as quite an interesting thread but yet again an over zealous OP has become defensive and completely blind to the fact that any chance there was of having any positive influence on others has been lost through offensive and sometimes ridiculous ramblings.

When will people learn??

Is there a school somewhere that teaches this stuff?
 
ester said:
If there is they obviously don't feed them enough cake :p
Click to expand...

Ladies, we are missing a trick here. With access to such a knowledgeable trainer and top competitor that Koen seems to portray surely we should all be flocking to his door with our allegedly crap horses, to share his superior knowledge and talent. Not doubt the lesson fee would be inflated in line with his ego but can we pass this phenomenal opportunity by.

The cake is in the oven.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Ladies, we are missing a trick here. With access to such a knowledgeable trainer and top competitor that Koen seems to portray surely we should all be flocking to his door with our allegedly crap horses, to share his superior knowledge and talent. Not doubt the lesson fee would be inflated in line with his ego but can we pass this phenomenal opportunity by.

The cake is in the oven.
Click to expand...

Alf likes cake - and he's distraught about having his breeding and performance slated. He NEEDS a large slice of Victoria Sponge!
 
Auslander said:
Alf likes cake - and he's distraught about having his breeding and performance slated. He NEEDS a large slice of Victoria Sponge!
Click to expand...

It's chocolate one, I would let him lick the bowl but I couldn't resist. I made such a good job of it there is no need for it to go in the dishwasher.

Keep it a secret but the cake I am making for our instructor has lots of lovely senna in it, I feel senna might help his problems.
 
Koen said:
I wasn't at all beastly? In fact I was showing concern for the horse.

No you can't always judge from one picture but in this case it is enough surely? He doesn't look happy, spurs would not "refine these aids".

Im not sure this is the best of Britain though if you were wanting British breeding to shine. Sure a lot of these cross breeds are bred in the UK more so than on the continent definitely. It's tradition. They don't make the best dressage horses no, to coin a phrase they are more suited to the "agricultural way" of going or pursuits.

Don't get me wrong I didn't admire Giddy because he was a Shire cross (straight up) but because he gave a bloody good test the one and only time I saw him and had oodles of presence.

Britain didn't and still doesn't honestly have a broad base from which to breed a modern dressage horse, the UK is heavily reliant on imports and probably always will be. You need front and you need elegance which all came from carriage horses on the continent, not shires. The closest thing the UK has is the almost extinct Cleveland bay but even here the action and front is rather limited from what I've seen. Anyway no point in starting from scratch when when there are enough warm bloods to fill an ocean.

Besides now that Charlotte is all the rage amongst judges maybe she can start riding British. Im of the opinion horses are made as much as they are bred for anything.

p.s. (aren't they all? Lovely, special and dear)
Click to expand...



Hello Koen,
I'm de-lurking from this thread to ask a genuine question, as I've looked at the picture several times now and I don't see an unhappy horse. Could you please highlight what makes the horse look unhappy in the picture? Do you see tension anywhere for example? If so where?
Like I said this is a genuine question - rather than a wind-up so I'd be interested in your response

Thanks
 
Koen said:
Whats the horse in the picture got to do with spurs?
Click to expand...

What's posting a video of Edward Gal riding in spurs go to do with supporting your arguement that spurs should be banned? You didn't say much about it but I got the impression you thought it was much nicer than the first video you posted? Doesn't really support the arguement that spurs are bad
 
Optimissteeq said:
Hello Koen,
I'm de-lurking from this thread to ask a genuine question, as I've looked at the picture several times now and I don't see an unhappy horse. Could you please highlight what makes the horse look unhappy in the picture? Do you see tension anywhere for example? If so where?
Like I said this is a genuine question - rather than a wind-up so I'd be interested in your response

Thanks
Click to expand...

i know its my horse, and i'm biased - but I can't see it either. He looks like he's concentrating hard, but i like this picture, because his essential Alf-ness shines through!
 
well i for one think photo of Alf is lovely and you rightly should be offended by koens unnessary(sp) unintelligent remarks. He is obviously given you and many others his very very best and is respected and loved for that :)
 
For what it's worth Auslander I think he's lovely as well - and it's a credit to you how far he's gone. I was hoping for a constructive response - to maybe point out what we seem to be missing and maybe gain some credibility back to his responses.
Any how - he's smashing and I love the name, it suits him down to the ground! :)
 
Optimissteeq said:
For what it's worth Auslander I think he's lovely as well - and it's a credit to you how far he's gone. I was hoping for a constructive response - to maybe point out what we seem to be missing and maybe gain some credibility back to his responses.
Any how - he's smashing and I love the name, it suits him down to the ground! :)
Click to expand...

I can't take any of the credit! I've only had him a few years - he needed a quieter life, and I jumped at the chance to take him on. He's a lovely boy, can be very sharp and behave like a complete idiot, but he's allowed to be naughty now, after being good all his life!
 
Optimissteeq said:
Hello Koen,
I'm de-lurking from this thread to ask a genuine question, as I've looked at the picture several times now and I don't see an unhappy horse. Could you please highlight what makes the horse look unhappy in the picture? Do you see tension anywhere for example? If so where?
Like I said this is a genuine question - rather than a wind-up so I'd be interested in your response

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes Opti yes I can, very easily, you have to realise its a snap shot frozen in time. Can be very instructive or just that a flash moment.

And I will shortly.

The downsides of the internet. 10 000 miles away from the UK approximately and I come here face to face with British yobs excelling like no other yobs can. Not even in the wildest drinking haunts in this part of the world Im in right now do I see the same. Luckily it's also not high on the agenda for British yob holiday makers despite the age of cheap flights, not enough cheap accommodation.
 
Koen said:
Yes Opti yes I can, very easily, you have to realise its a snap shot frozen in time. Can be very instructive or just that a flash moment.

And I will shortly.

The downsides of the internet. 10 000 miles away from the UK approximately and I come here face to face with British yobs excelling like no other yobs can. Not even in the wildest drinking haunts in this part of the world Im in right now do I see the same. Luckily it's also not high on the agenda for British yob holiday makers despite the age of cheap flights, not enough cheap accommodation.
Click to expand...

You have to laugh at yet another hardly-intelligible rant in response to a fair question...! :rolleyes3:
 
Koen said:
If a well schooled horse is not responding to feeding is completely dead to the leg it shouldn't be ridden, there are obviously underlying problems that make it not suitable for riding. Horses aren't born to be ridden, that is to say the fact that it's a horse is not a guarantee it should be ridden.
Click to expand...

Absolute rubbish. You could class me as a 'well schooled human athlete' (boxer). Sometimes, it doesn't matter how well I'm fed or how much my coach shouts at me, I just can't be bothered and won't give 100%.

Does that mean I have underlying issues and am not suitable to compete? Not it does not. It means I'm being a lazy sod despite my ability and am not trying hard enough.

Give my coach a cattle prod (;)) and I bet I'd instantly turn into a willing, forward participant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top