St. Nicholas Abbey

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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No animal or human deserves to be used as a guinea pig but without the medics trying and learning how has medicine got to the level it has ?

Years ago there was no colic surgery, bones mended, joints medicated etc and likewise in our medicine organ transplants, cancer treatments etc. Medicine evolves and always will.
 
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Teaselmeg

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AdorableAlice said:
No animal or human deserves to be used as a guinea pig but without the medics trying and learning how has medicine got to the level it has ?

Years ago there was no colic surgery, bones mended, joints medicated etc and likewise in our medicine organ transplants, cancer treatments etc. Medicine evolves and always will.
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And I agree with you that people have to push the boundaries for medicine to evolve and improve, but this horse had a joint on the other leg that shattered into many pieces and has been dealing with the pain and discomfort of that long before the laminitis started. Why should he carry on suffering so that people can learn a little bit more about dealing with laminitis ?

I truly hope he does get better, he was a great racehorse.
 
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katherinef

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To my mind he has gone downhill since the last update and looks like he is suffering. He looks like a walking laboratory experiment.

There is scarring over his hip is this where the bone grafting was done?

This has gone too far now he is skeletal.
 
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Exploding Chestnuts

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I will be honest, there are other stallions.... it has got the the stage where they are painting themselves in to a corner, in a way.
If they put him down now, they will be criticised for holding on too long, if things get worse they will have to put him down, and take flak for not making the right decision earlier.
This could go on for a long time, and just the length of time makes it too long.

This sort of decision faces ordinary horse owners, where it is not black and white.
No ordinary person would have done anything other than p-t-s on day one, because it would be outwith the pocket of any ordinary person.
Technology allows vets to treat such cases, but there are welfare considerations, and also PR considerations.
We are at the stage where the investment is not about ££££ any more.
 
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Mithras

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I do find the attitude on HHO overly in favour of pts, even when there is nothing wrong with the horse and the owner has just grown tired of it. I do find some of the comments on here a bit ignorant - I expect St Nicholas Abbey is either insured or contractually covered against loss of use as a stallion and that this is not the primary issue - tbh although he will earn stud fees if he can cover, he wouldn't be the most commercially viable stallion at Coolmore as he is a middle distance, late maturing horse whose main victories came over 1m4f. He might likely end up as a NH stallion. We are not talking about a Galileo here, nice horse though he is.

The comments about him being a bad example of a fragile TB were also wide of the mark as well, since he is arguably the most hardy, tough and consistent racehorse we have seen in recent times, racing year after year. No horse has ever won the Coronation Cup three years in succession before and that takes some doing because it is on the Derby course.

I am pretty certain that the "turning point" for a decision to pts is if the horse is suffering and declining in outlook. At the moment that stage has not been reached and there is still hope. Why would you wish for the horse to be pts now, at this stage, after so much progress has made, just to satisfy naysayers on an internet site. I doubt very much that Coolmore, in these circumstances, would keep a horse suffering needlessly. I think they are doing it for the dignity of the horse, because he raced for them at the top level for so many years and they think he is worth giving a fighting chance, Coolmore might be a commercial operation but it is also full of plenty of true horse lovers with a wealth of knowledge that most people on here could only dream about. I should imagine the lack of condition is due to a very low sugar diet to try to avoid any more laminitis.

There seems no reason why such injuries should not be healed with appropriate treatment, one day at least. I hope for St Nicholas Abbey's sake this is the day, although I agree that his lying down a lot is not the best sign. But I'm not a vet, so what do I know. Its already a miracle that he is able to walk on all four legs out of the stable in hand.
 
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MadJ

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I've seen animals in a far worse state hidden away in back fields where they rarely get checked on.
Considering his problems he looks to be walking pretty well and his eyes are still bright. His loss of condition is possibly a blessing in disguise at this stage.
 
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bonny

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Mithras said:
I do find the attitude on HHO overly in favour of pts, even when there is nothing wrong with the horse and the owner has just grown tired of it. I do find some of the comments on here a bit ignorant - I expect St Nicholas Abbey is either insured or contractually covered against loss of use as a stallion and that this is not the primary issue - tbh although he will earn stud fees if he can cover, he wouldn't be the most commercially viable stallion at Coolmore as he is a middle distance, late maturing horse whose main victories came over 1m4f. He might likely end up as a NH stallion. We are not talking about a Galileo here, nice horse though he is.

The comments about him being a bad example of a fragile TB were also wide of the mark as well, since he is arguably the most hardy, tough and consistent racehorse we have seen in recent times, racing year after year. No horse has ever won the Coronation Cup three years in succession before and that takes some doing because it is on the Derby course.

I am pretty certain that the "turning point" for a decision to pts is if the horse is suffering and declining in outlook. At the moment that stage has not been reached and there is still hope. Why would you wish for the horse to be pts now, at this stage, after so much progress has made, just to satisfy naysayers on an internet site. I doubt very much that Coolmore, in these circumstances, would keep a horse suffering needlessly. I think they are doing it for the dignity of the horse, because he raced for them at the top level for so many years and they think he is worth giving a fighting chance, Coolmore might be a commercial operation but it is also full of plenty of true horse lovers with a wealth of knowledge that most people on here could only dream about. I should imagine the lack of condition is due to a very low sugar diet to try to avoid any more laminitis.

There seems no reason why such injuries should not be healed with appropriate treatment, one day at least. I hope for St Nicholas Abbey's sake this is the day, although I agree that his lying down a lot is not the best sign. But I'm not a vet, so what do I know. Its already a miracle that he is able to walk on all four legs out of the stable in hand.
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Well said, I agree with every word, a lot of people posting on here seem as though they won't be happy unless the horse is dead, I see nothing wrong with keeping trying with him, he's come this far and is still young with a lot ahead of him if he does survive and I very much doubt the vets would have come this far without thinking he will make it.
 
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Clare85

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Poor lad, RIP. So very sad he spent his last months suffering with all his complications. Glad to hear Coolmore have finally done right by him and let him be at peace.
 
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My earlier posts 154, and 159 indicated my concerns, it seemed to me that the time would probably come when it all had to end, and that it would be an unhappy end.
I am not lacking in compassion, but fortunately connections have better things to do than follow my posts on HHO. It's not so tough for them as it has been for the horse.
 
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Dobiegirl

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Had he been put down due to his leg failing or them not being able to get on top of the laminitis you would have been right with your concerns but he had a second attack of colic which was not forseeable or preventable.
 
Fools Motto

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How very sad for the horse. Sad for the connections who did try, whether for the horse or for the 'breeding rights', it doesn't matter now. The horse tried for them. Brave boy.

Hope he is at peace.
 
Mariposa

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fburton said:
FWIW, I did not read MrsD123's comment as unfeeling - quite the reverse in fact. Whether it would be an appropriate thing to say to connections at this time is another matter of course.
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I have to say I read MrsD123's comment earlier and had to close my browser window before I said something I'd regret. A wonderful horse is dead. They tried to keep him alive, and in the videos posted he certainly looked full of life and promise. I am sure his carers, vets, grooms and all at the hospital are utterly gutted, as any of us would be if our loved horse hadn't made it.
 
Nicnac

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Very sad news. RIP beautiful, courageous boy. Nice to read he'll be buried at Coolmore. Feeling very sorry for the team who worked so hard to save him.
 
Clodagh

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RIP, such a shame and if they had just shot him on the gallops at the time so many weeks of pain and suffering could have been averted.
 
druid

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I cannot believe how callous some of the comments are in response to Nic's death. Do the authors ever pause to think they don't know who will read their posts? Who is sat at the keyboard with a heavy heart and a sense of loss? There are many members of the racing and bloodstock world who post and read HHO. For goodness sake have a little compassion for them.
 
Clodagh

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It isn't a lack of compassion for the individuals concerned but the fact that the horse, apart from as a future sperm provider, came last in this decision making.

Bonny, even if he had recovered in a few months time and fathered lots of foals I would still think what he was put through was wrong, no hindsight involved.
 
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