Stabilising Lower Leg

[SaddlePsych'D]

Any tips/exercises/cues that might be helpful for me working on this?

I'm aware I can get into 'nagging' when share horse is not moving forward and been working on this, but was really surprised to learn on a hack yesterday that I'm still doing this even when I (very!) did not want more forwards (like, really did not want any more forwards!) Great that it's been brought to my attention so I can work on it, and just wondering if people have any tips for things to try or think about while I'm hacking to build stability in my lower legs. I'm also wondering what can cause this problem in the first place, just basically wanting to understand it as much as I can so I can improve! I need to look back over my past lesson videos to see if I can spot it because it's not come up before so either this is new, it's more of a problem on this particular horse (if that's a thing?) or past instructors haven't pointed it out.

 

[Shay]

Best place to start is in the school rather than on a hack but... try standing bolt upright in your stirrups. You might want someone on the ground or on a lunge to start with. I don't mean in 2 point - right up. Start at walk then at trot. When you can stand upright easily at trot you have a stable lower leg! Work without stirrups - or bareback - will help too but the standing upright exercise is absolutely the best. And the hardest! There is nowhere to hide. The leg is underneath you correctly or you can't stand. But make sure you have some help on the ground at first.

 

[milliepops]

SPD I can't remember what your current circumstances are with lockdown etc. but it seems to me there's a couple of things going on here that are causing you to firstly not really be that aware of what you are doing and secondly needing more control in your position.
I think the thing that would help you the best with this is some really good lunge lessons. i know the riding schools are probably all closed, but were you still having some lessons? is share horse suitable for lunging? giving a good lunge lesson is a skill not all instructors have but it would give you some saddle-time where you weren't responsible for speed and steering and could really concentrate on YOU.

 

[j1ffy]

Both of the above are excellent suggestions. I am a firm believer in lunge lessons - they really are the only way to work on your position and build a stronger, more independent seat with your legs underneath you and stable. In the meantime, try to get some video or a photo and check where your legs tend to go - are they too far forward or back? Some different visualisations and exercises can help with each error.

The standing in stirrups was going to be my 'lockdown' suggestion too, even working in 2-point (jumping-ish) seat will help but as Shay says, standing up is even better. For the standing up, you can do it on hacks for short periods and even start very simply in rising trot - rise as normal, then stand for two beats instead of one. Then build it up from there. Also in walk (which is harder IMO!) when your horse is feeling calm - aim for 10 seconds, then 20 and build up to a couple of minutes. Try to keep the same feeling in your legs when you sit again.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I've been shown the standing up exercise and working on that so good to know that will help if I stick at it. I've not tried it in trot yet though.

Lunge lesson on share horse probably won't be possible, but (pre lockdown) I kept my RS lessons going semi regularly as well as with share horse. I'm sure I could arrange something with the riding school when they are open again ?

I had a quick look at some videos last night and I think my legs tend to go slightly forwards rather than back. Sometimes they're moving more than others but don't seem to be swinging too wildly around. The more I think about it the more worried I am that it's not been picked up in my RS lessons, as if its a problem I've got then obviously I'd have been wanting to work on it.

 

[Littlewills]

Wide stirrup leathers and flex on stirrups sorted mine for me

 

[milliepops]

legs going forward can have a few causes. IME it's commonly a saddle-related issue, which may be why it's not been picked up at the RS, if your saddles there are more conducive to having a good position then it won't manifest as an issue. basically if the stirrup bars are too far forward for you, may also be because the seat is too big so you slide to the back of it, then it really encourages your leg to zoom out in front of you.

Of course this can also be rooted in a lack of core stability causing you to sort of collapse through the middle into a chair seat, but the saddle shape/design can really accentuate this and also makes it very hard to correct yourself.

just throwing it out there as a potential issue - I have first hand experience of how the wrong saddle for the *rider* can really hamper position things even with all the work put in!

eta. in the right environment you could test this theory by taking your stirrups away. if your legs stay more where they should be then that might indicate that the saddle is not helping you. no-stirrup work can be good for your position BUT you must take care to not over-face yourself, doing too much or challenging your balance too much can just cause you to grip on which would be counterproductive. just work in walk is enough to start to get the benefit.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Ah interesting that the saddle/stirrups could be a factor. I've done only very small bits of no stirrup work since I came back to riding - there's a video of me cantering with no stirrups from several years ago and that feels a long way away! If I'm working 'against' the tack all the time could that contribute to excess movement and unintentional 'nudging' the horse? I don't want to be giving share horse mixed signals when he's gotten a bit on his toes.

The core thing is interesting too - I was feeling nervous when the leg thing was picked up on a hack the other day, maybe that could contribute to me collapsing instead of engaging and sitting up?

Definitely agree on not trying to do too much too quickly. When I came off a few weeks ago I wondered if I had been trying something a bit too challenging too soon. Falls happen of course and I assume my instructor wouldn't have set the exercise if they thought there was no chance I could do it but in hindsight I think it probably was too big a challenge to my balance (hence the fall I guess!)

 

[ponyparty]

Definitely try standing up in your stirrups. I used to do this a bit to help with my lower leg stability, but wasn't that militant about it if I'm honest... but then I had a horse with kissing spines, so when he came back into ridden work, I used to stand up in the stirrups for the first 10 minutes of work, and when out hacking, when going up or down hills, to help him lift his back to use it properly. This is beneficial for any horse, not just a KS horse, so I've just carried on doing it. After a while you should be able to do it easily in walk, trot and canter. It also helps with your core strength/stability too. Use a neckstrap at first, so that you're not hanging onto the horse's mouth if you lose your balance. It's something you can do both in the school and out hacking - whereas you'd perhaps not go stirrupless out hacking, depending on how fresh/spooky your horse is

 

[cold_feet]

My horse came with his own custom made jump saddle. But it has an 18” seat, and the stirrup bars were too forward. Couple this with my long legs I could not get my legs to a correct position. I now have a 17.5” GP Kent and Masters which is much better (although not perfect). Definitely check the position of your stirrup bars.

 

[Littlebear]

Great exercise for this is the franklin balls (or use similar balls) under your thigh while you ride, doesn't have to be for long just short sessions for a while - you cannot do anything else except keep your lower leg stable and use your seat and core more.
I found that a massively helpful exercise xx

 

[DiNozzo]

When you stand up, don't think about standing straight up in your stirrups. It shouldn't be a big movement

You want to think about bringing your pelvis forwards until you could just brush the pommel. Make sure your knee is relaxed (or you end up wedged into any knee roll!) and your lower leg will hang where it's supposed to. When you sit back into your saddle, focus on keeping the bottom of your pelvis rotated forwards and your knee soft.

Littlebear's post is a really good one to rotate with standing up in your stirrups! You want the flat of your thigh muscle to feel as though its running parallel behind your femur, not tucked between the bone and the saddle, and that come from rotating the hip.

Like milliepops said, just do it in walk (or halt with the balls) and build from there as you strengthen up.

 

[Wishfilly]

I've been shown the standing up exercise and working on that so good to know that will help if I stick at it. I've not tried it in trot yet though.

Lunge lesson on share horse probably won't be possible, but (pre lockdown) I kept my RS lessons going semi regularly as well as with share horse. I'm sure I could arrange something with the riding school when they are open again ?

I had a quick look at some videos last night and I think my legs tend to go slightly forwards rather than back. Sometimes they're moving more than others but don't seem to be swinging too wildly around. The more I think about it the more worried I am that it's not been picked up in my RS lessons, as if its a problem I've got then obviously I'd have been wanting to work on it.

Instructors don't always want to give you too much to work on at once. Sometimes they'll focus on one or two "problems" at a time, rather than giving you a big long list of everything you are doing wrong which would be demoralising for most people! I also agree it might be an issue caused by the saddle, or increased by you feelng nervous.

I'm just wondering about the length of your stirrups as well- too long stirrups can sometimes affect stability in your legs, and too short can encourage them to swing forwards. Might be worth trying a few different lengths to see if that helps at all?

 

[ponyparty]

I'd recommend listening to Mary Wanless' series of podcasts, starting right from the beginning, if you have time to listen to podcasts. It's something you could do whilst mucking out I suppose. She explains very well about what length the stirrup should be, to create the ideal angle of the thigh bone which helps lower leg position. I'm not explaining it very well, it's been a while since I've listened as I don't have time. But could be really useful for you!

 

[EllenJay]

Try riding without stirrups (obviously in a safe environment)

 

[The Xmas Furry]

SPD, try the standing exercises during this lockdown increasing from a couple of seconds upwards.
When restrictions are lifted and my paddocks are dry enough to ride in again, I'm very happy for you to come over to sit on B and I'll give you a lunge session or more if you like.

 

[shortstuff99]

Some other good tips/visualizations are think of kneeling forward and down (like onto a prayer cushion) this will bring you leg down and your lower leg further back. Also imagine trying to touch the horses hind foot (as it comes forward) with your foot. This will bring you leg back too.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Ooh lots of ideas and things I can think about! I'm limited in what I can do regarding tack I think (getting my own saddle/stirrup leathers for share horse might be a bit much?) but it is good to be aware of different factors that might be contributing, as well as the work I can do to improve. I can definitely keep going with standing up in stirrups (I think share horse likes this too as he has a big stretch), it's getting better in walk so I'll starting trying to build up in trot too. The tips here I think will help with this. No stirrup work is limited at the moment as hacking only but I could do little bits at a time in walk on our last little stretch up to the yard.

Great exercise for this is the franklin balls (or use similar balls) under your thigh while you ride, doesn't have to be for long just short sessions for a while - you cannot do anything else except keep your lower leg stable and use your seat and core more.
I found that a massively helpful exercise xx

The RS I go to has some Franklin balls, I've only used them once but will ask to do some more next time I'm there.

SPD, try the standing exercises during this lockdown increasing from a couple of seconds upwards.
When restrictions are lifted and my paddocks are dry enough to ride in again, I'm very happy for you to come over to sit on B and I'll give you a lunge session or more if you like.

Thank you, that's an incredibly kind offer. Lunge or no lunge it would be fab to come over for another visit ?

 

[Wishfilly]

Ooh lots of ideas and things I can think about! I'm limited in what I can do regarding tack I think (getting my own saddle/stirrup leathers for share horse might be a bit much?) but it is good to be aware of different factors that might be contributing, as well as the work I can do to improve. I can definitely keep going with standing up in stirrups (I think share horse likes this too as he has a big stretch), it's getting better in walk so I'll starting trying to build up in trot too. The tips here I think will help with this. No stirrup work is limited at the moment as hacking only but I could do little bits at a time in walk on our last little stretch up to the yard.

Getting your own saddle is probably a bit much, but getting your own stirrup leathers/stirrups potentially isn't? But I don't think that would necessarily help if it's to do with the way the saddle sits on the horse!

(I say this as someone with pretty short legs who often needs a twist in a standard adult length stirrup though).

 

[muddybay]

I had problems for ages with my lower leg and found that slightly thicker stirrup leathers and stirrups really helped. If you have anyone who could lunge you that really helps position wise as well! As soon as you get stronger it will improve.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I had problems for ages with my lower leg and found that slightly thicker stirrup leathers and stirrups really helped. If you have anyone who could lunge you that really helps position wise as well! As soon as you get stronger it will improve.

That's interesting. Do you mean thicker as in wider or the thickness of the leather itself?

Looks like it might be a while until I can get a lunge lesson but I can do my standing up bits on hacks, and possibly a little no stirrup stuff as well.

 

[muddybay]

That's interesting. Do you mean thicker as in wider or the thickness of the leather itself?

Looks like it might be a while until I can get a lunge lesson but I can do my standing up bits on hacks, and possibly a little no stirrup stuff as well.

Yeah I mean a slightly wider leather not the really fancy ones just wider ones from my local tack shop! It worked miracles! If you're practicing standing up on hack don't grip with your knees because it will make your leg swing back (a really bad habit that I've picked up).

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Its interesting how they can make a difference like that. I'm riding in webbers I think they're called, I've never come across them before. Not sure how they compare width wise to 'normal' leathers.

OH is coming out on foot with me tomorrow so I'm going to ask him to do some pics and video to help me see what's going on!

 

[muddybay]

Its interesting how they can make a difference like that. I'm riding in webbers I think they're called, I've never come across them before. Not sure how they compare width wise to 'normal' leathers.

OH is coming out on foot with me tomorrow so I'm going to ask him to do some pics and video to help me see what's going on!

I know! My saddles not fitting my horse at the moment so I'm using a pony's with childs stirrup leather and my leg already feels so much more unstable!
Having someone film always helps when you can't see what's going on it's very hard to fix it!

 

[Holsaskew]

Most of our instability comes from having weak glut meds. Best exercise you can do off the horse is donkey kicks or deep squats. Do a few before you go for your ride to "activate" these muscles and it will help!
The most helpful thing I keep in my head is to keep my knees off the saddle. Squeeze your bum and push them out, your lower legs will then be in the perfect position!

 

[milliepops]

Most of our instability comes from having weak glut meds. Best exercise you can do off the horse is donkey kicks or deep squats. Do a few before you go for your ride to "activate" these muscles and it will help!
The most helpful thing I keep in my head is to keep my knees off the saddle. Squeeze your bum and push them out, your lower legs will then be in the perfect position!

I've been doing some equipilates classes online while I have nothing to ride, as I know my glute meds are not activated without some target exercises before getting on. i figured it would be a useful think to keep on top of until horse is back in work. you could look for them SPD, may be worth a look, it definitely helps my position and effectiveness. There are a few doing them via FB lives at the moment.

 

[Cloball]

I am by no means an expert but I know what wonky things I do. My feet shoot forward for two reasons
1. Defensive riding, heels forced down leg braced.
2. Habit of years of being shouted at "heels down".
It is my understanding that 'heels down' mantra is to counteract many novice riders from putting their weight through the balls of their feet causing the heels to rise and the weight to tip forwards. It is not the end point to have your heels down as far as possible as this fixes the ankle (my riding instructor explained this much better) and causes the leg to swing forward.
I always try to position my thighs by... Bend each knee to a 90 degree angle rotating the knee outwards away from the saddle and then gentling placing my leg down and taking the stirrups. Then I put my hand under my thigh and scoop the muscle back so the thigh lies more flat. I find this a good starting place any way if that makes any sense.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

OH wasn't able to join me after all today so not able to get any pics or video this time but just tried to be more aware of where my legs were and if they were nagging/moving around. Gave the standing up in trot a go. Three (maybe 4) strides is my high score so far.

Definitely interested in equi pilates and exercises I can do at home so will check those out/give them a go.

Wondered if a slightly longer stirrup length will help but not sure about letting them down as I'm quite close to the longest setting on the webbers as it is so not much of a loop left for the stirrup. Also (I realise this might be a bit ridiculous) I already feel self conscious about my height relative to share horse (I'm 5'7 and he is 14.2/3) and have it in my head my feet will be by his knees if I go longer (they won't!)

 

[Cloball]

I used to ride very short and defensive but now ride much longer and I do find it helps. Don't worry about your height I'm the same height and have been known in my lighter days to ride 12.2 ponies.

 

[milliepops]

Re webbers. I have Wow webbers on my saddles and I have them so that I use the lowest slot on them, because that means the metalwork is hanging in space rather than being on the saddle flap or against my boots.

I also wouldn't worry if you actually need to drop your stirrups a hole, i'm 5'6 with fairly long legs and my horse is 14.2, definitely no knee kicking