JDH01
Well-Known Member
In my experience yes as they don't have a routine. You need to respect this as my experience and not necessarily yours.
Stabled horses and the Animal Welfare Act...your thoughts??
- Thread starter SatansLittleHelper
- Start date
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I don't 'need' to do anything. However, if that's your experience, then fine.
I personally think that's a load of rubbish.
OwnedbyJoe
Well-Known Member
I have what comes about as close to "as nature intended" as I think you can really get.. 100 acres, 2 natural watering points, mob of 7 of varying ages, alpha mare.. The only real difference is there is no dominant stallion and they do get wormed.
We have a slow but significant turnover of horses here: I retrain and rehome off the track Standardbreds. In addition we have an Arab, an Anglo, a Welsh X Stockhorse and a Connemara! The Standies mainly come from homes where the majority are yarded (Australian system - walk in shed plus a small sand yard, hay and hard feed twice a day). I am sure they are all very well loved but I have yet to see one that did NOT improve, both physically and mentally, with 24/7 turnout. Their minds improve, their gut improves, and their feet ALL improve. It takes a little while, and it is a bit of a shock to their system for some: some don't know how to talk horse but because all of the others do they learn fairly quickly. Their gut has to adjust but in all cases (so far) they have adapted to the high roughage, low grain diet and end up as very easy keepers because their hindgut is healthy and doing what it has evolved to do. I have NO stable vices (well, they do eat trees..) and 2 who came as apparently confirmed crib biters/windsuckers have stopped.
I also work 2 endurance horses from the paddock: one has completed 100 mile rides.
It IS possible to keep a horse well stabled 24/7, but IMO even when everything is done to the best it can possibly be it is NOT natural, or ideal... Combined is better than stabled 24/7, but even then movement and feeding are sub optimal.
OwnedbyJoe
Well-Known Member
Oops: forgot to add: I do have an advantage in that I live i Oz.. The biggest problem with 24/7 turnout in the UK is the UK isn't really designed for it! We have lots of space, lots of dry high fibre feed, and a very low rainfall. The UK has mud, heavily improved pastures designed for dairy cows, and a distinct lack of space!
I'm sure it would be easier to mange 24/7 turnout in the UK if you could all live at the top of a hill on Exmoor with free draining sandy soils and lots of heather..
I'm sure it would be easier to mange 24/7 turnout in the UK if you could all live at the top of a hill on Exmoor with free draining sandy soils and lots of heather..
pegasus1986
Well-Known Member
Mine have been stabled 24/7 the last week due to bad mud fever.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
Huh? And why is that relevant?
Scatterbrain
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree with this. There are loads of free draining sandy soil fields in the UK, my ground included. The fields in any area in the UK can vary from heavy clay, sandy soil, hilly, flat etc. Even fields within a stones throw of each other can have different types of soil IME. What's important is that horse owner's carefully select where they are going to keep their horses, based on suitability of the land. Heavy clay notoriously isn't suitable for keeping livestock out 24/7 during winter months. I wouldn't keep horses out 24/7 standing in a muddy bog and certainly wouldn't keep them stabled 24/7 either as a compromise.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
My horses 'lightly hack' more than anything else and all live out 24/7/365 and I can assure you that none of them are stressed!
amandaco2
Well-Known Member
Id hate 24 7 confinement for mine. Stuck in a 14x14 box is tiny for such long periods. Id worry about dust in lungs, feet in messy beds, stiff joints, lack of constant grazing motion in muscles.... not to mention mine would be very excitable making ridden work more difficult than it need be.
I like to make things as easy as I can so for me I have them out as much as possible....
which is 24hrs day.
I like to make things as easy as I can so for me I have them out as much as possible....
which is 24hrs day.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Hmm... I'd disagree that competition horses have a "better" life than your average horse. Just because its wrapped in cotton wool, goes swimming once a week, gets to stand under heat lamps daily, travel in luxury etc. that does not mean it has a "better" life IMO. All these things go against what a horse would naturally do so IMO actually these horses will be the most stressed mentally, by choice they'd rather be outside with a herd of horses grazing, as nature intended.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
Completely agree.
spookypony
Well-Known Member
Wow, quite a few Straw Men wandering about on this thread! 
I'll out myself as someone with a small "mud pit" of a paddock. Said paddock has the following features: good natural shelter on 2 of the 3 sides, drains quite well, hay feeder in the most sheltered area. In the worst of the winter, the area nearest the gate (and hay feeder) is quite deep mud, but the rest of the field, though there is no grass, is generally reasonably dry. The immediate surrounds of the hayfeeder are stomped flat (and I put down bedding to assist in soaking up), so the horses are standing mostly out of mud when they are at the feeder. From April to October, the paddock is dry, yet still bare.
There are 3 in the paddock: 2 ponies and one small horse with a lot of Native in her. Two of the three are confirmed laminitis risks. Since being in this field, on very good hay and next to no grass, there have been no problems with this, and though the companion pony is still a bit round, the other two are coming out of the winter spot-on. Though they are rugged only rarely, when it's truly awful, there's been no rainscald. Nor has there been mud fever or stacks of abscesses (1, in all the time I've had any of these horses). The pony that had dodgy frogs before still has somewhat dodgy frogs (improving now that I've changed his supplement), and the ones that had great frogs, still have great frogs. All three are trimmed regularly, have the vet out if there's any problem, have teeth/jabs as needed, and are on a carefully-managed diet. The two ridden horses get saddle fitter and physio, and I have regular lessons.
Still, twice in this last month, I've been reported, first to WHW, then to the SSPCA, for "starving horses in a muddy field". Both inspectors were completely satisfied with what they saw, especially as I do have stables to bring them in, if it were truly necessary! But when it's been blowing a gale with heavy rain, and I've run out in the middle of the night to check, what do I find? Three furry mud-monsters companionably chewing at the hay feeder, toasty warm. When I have brought them in, they have been eager to go out again as soon as possible. It appears that the mud bothers them a heck of a lot less than it bothers me!
In an ideal world, I would have the whole of the paddock turned into an all-weather turnout, and give them free access to the stables. Actually, no, I would run an all-weather track system with varied surfaces all around the property, and have a smaller paddock and a school. But until I strike it rich, I manage as best I can with the resources I have, and I can be sure that vet, trimmer, and instructor would be quick to say something if there was a real problem.
I think it's easy to generalise based on surface appearances, but to truly assess the way any horse is kept, one needs the full picture. There are clearly a range of strategies that can result in relaxed horses and happy horse-keepers, as long as the horse-keeper is constantly willing to assess and question if the balance between horse's and horse-keeper's interests is ok. I'm generally in favour of more turnout, but the individual situation has to be considered.
I'll out myself as someone with a small "mud pit" of a paddock. Said paddock has the following features: good natural shelter on 2 of the 3 sides, drains quite well, hay feeder in the most sheltered area. In the worst of the winter, the area nearest the gate (and hay feeder) is quite deep mud, but the rest of the field, though there is no grass, is generally reasonably dry. The immediate surrounds of the hayfeeder are stomped flat (and I put down bedding to assist in soaking up), so the horses are standing mostly out of mud when they are at the feeder. From April to October, the paddock is dry, yet still bare.
There are 3 in the paddock: 2 ponies and one small horse with a lot of Native in her. Two of the three are confirmed laminitis risks. Since being in this field, on very good hay and next to no grass, there have been no problems with this, and though the companion pony is still a bit round, the other two are coming out of the winter spot-on. Though they are rugged only rarely, when it's truly awful, there's been no rainscald. Nor has there been mud fever or stacks of abscesses (1, in all the time I've had any of these horses). The pony that had dodgy frogs before still has somewhat dodgy frogs (improving now that I've changed his supplement), and the ones that had great frogs, still have great frogs. All three are trimmed regularly, have the vet out if there's any problem, have teeth/jabs as needed, and are on a carefully-managed diet. The two ridden horses get saddle fitter and physio, and I have regular lessons.
Still, twice in this last month, I've been reported, first to WHW, then to the SSPCA, for "starving horses in a muddy field". Both inspectors were completely satisfied with what they saw, especially as I do have stables to bring them in, if it were truly necessary! But when it's been blowing a gale with heavy rain, and I've run out in the middle of the night to check, what do I find? Three furry mud-monsters companionably chewing at the hay feeder, toasty warm. When I have brought them in, they have been eager to go out again as soon as possible. It appears that the mud bothers them a heck of a lot less than it bothers me!
In an ideal world, I would have the whole of the paddock turned into an all-weather turnout, and give them free access to the stables. Actually, no, I would run an all-weather track system with varied surfaces all around the property, and have a smaller paddock and a school. But until I strike it rich, I manage as best I can with the resources I have, and I can be sure that vet, trimmer, and instructor would be quick to say something if there was a real problem.
I think it's easy to generalise based on surface appearances, but to truly assess the way any horse is kept, one needs the full picture. There are clearly a range of strategies that can result in relaxed horses and happy horse-keepers, as long as the horse-keeper is constantly willing to assess and question if the balance between horse's and horse-keeper's interests is ok. I'm generally in favour of more turnout, but the individual situation has to be considered.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Oh no that's a shame! Non-horsey people can be pretty stupid, I remember my neighbour used to get reported frequently because she kept her shetland on a bare paddock with long grass the other side of the fence, they thought it was cruel but the pony was very lami-prone! I also have a small field, not big enough really for what's on it but I have to make-do (I have been asking around everywhere for local grazing to rent but to no avail so far, have just rehomed one of the horses to make a little more room). What I adore at my place is that when I had my stables built, I had them put on a big hardcore pad which extends out the front so that's where I put their hay feeder, and leave the stable doors open all the time. They love it, they spend probably 80% of their day at the moment standing on the totally dry hardcore munching hay and then going inside for a snooze. Could you maybe look into getting a patch of hardcore spookypony, I couldn't live without it at mine! Keeps the hay dry and clean too
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
I'm very, very, very lucky! My boy lives out 24/7 on 30 acres with about 13 other geldings. They get big bale hay as needed in the winter, and because its a well draining field on sandy soil I can walk through it in trainers if needs be. My other horse is on loan a mile down the road, and his fields get very wet and boggy, so in winter they come in overnight to give the fields and the horses a rest. They both seem happy and content. The one thing I wont do is in 24/7. I had a brief period last winter when he had to be in for a couple of months with only turn out in the round pen 
As soon as I could, I turned him away for the winter and had him out 24/7.
If my only option was in 24/7 then I wouldnt keep horses
As soon as I could, I turned him away for the winter and had him out 24/7.If my only option was in 24/7 then I wouldnt keep horses
spookypony
Well-Known Member
Oh no that's a shame!
Could you maybe look into getting a patch of hardcore spookypony, I couldn't live without it at mine! Keeps the hay dry and clean too
Should have said, twice in the last 6 months, not 1 month! Oops!
Yes, I had an estimate done for a large area of hardcore in the field; it's rather more than I can afford just now, but I can think about ways to accomplish the same thing a bit cheaper. My stables were formerly a double garage: they have a 10m x 10m square area of hard standing in front. My next home investment, I think, will be to have that area fenced in properly, so that I can use that for when the weather is at its worst. Having the other idea costed has at least given me an idea of how much various options might cost. Thankfully, the hay stays well dry: I built a feeder out of two tractor tyres (metal rings removed so that no trapping can happen) bolted on top of each other on top of a pallet. The hay stays dry, and on the rare occasions that hooning-around happens, they appear to just bounce off the thing (the sides are nice and high).
Last edited:
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Given the time of year etc I thought I'd resurrect this to see what others have to say
I like a good debate
I like a good debate
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Well apart from days traveling to clinics and vets that sort of thing I have kept three of my horses in the last two days for the first time in three years .
One is on box rest after an OP and has been in a month he been hand walked and grazed in the last two weeks and can go out tomorrow, let's hope the weathers nice enough for it to be a pleasant experience for him.
The other two are in work and we have had three days of non stop torrential rain the already fields are total waterlogged so they are staying in they where doing nothing except standing in the mud in the pouring rain trying to get back in .
So I listened to them kept them in cut back their food and upped their work as soon as we get a break in the weather they will go back out .
Fatty can't be ridden as he's minus a shoes so he's still going out for a while everyday.
Tatts my outside loving care in the community horse is still out but I have barely seen him outside his shed in the last two days .I brought him in on Saturday he stood for three hours happily then asked to go out and walked straight over to his shed and went in he's a funny boy.
It's truly awful here why force them out to stand at the gate trying to get back in better just to work them and that's been a deeply unpleasant experience the last two days and leave them in.
Next years must have a sheltered hardstanding so they at least have somewhere decent to stand .
One is on box rest after an OP and has been in a month he been hand walked and grazed in the last two weeks and can go out tomorrow, let's hope the weathers nice enough for it to be a pleasant experience for him.
The other two are in work and we have had three days of non stop torrential rain the already fields are total waterlogged so they are staying in they where doing nothing except standing in the mud in the pouring rain trying to get back in .
So I listened to them kept them in cut back their food and upped their work as soon as we get a break in the weather they will go back out .
Fatty can't be ridden as he's minus a shoes so he's still going out for a while everyday.
Tatts my outside loving care in the community horse is still out but I have barely seen him outside his shed in the last two days .I brought him in on Saturday he stood for three hours happily then asked to go out and walked straight over to his shed and went in he's a funny boy.
It's truly awful here why force them out to stand at the gate trying to get back in better just to work them and that's been a deeply unpleasant experience the last two days and leave them in.
Next years must have a sheltered hardstanding so they at least have somewhere decent to stand .
Mooseontheloose
Well-Known Member
Looking back at some of the past posts as ever there are some pretty strongly held opinions on how we should all behave. We also need to understand that we do not have the wild range, the open savannah, the hillsides with lots of well drained shelter that feral horses have. Living out can often mean a small flat muddy paddock however hard the owner tries to maintain it. We have to do the best we can. Have an open piece in the stable where horses can touch through it and groom each other. Keep youngsters together to have lots of contact. Feed as near nature as you can.
But, if you once accept that we own horses and keep them for our wishes, we have created an artificial environment for them, just as most horses now are 'artificial' in that they have been specifically bred for certain activities. Unless we own a Prewalski's horse, a zebra or a donkey, really all horses are far removed from their original species.
That is not to say they do not have lots of welfare needs and I think the vast majority of owners do their utmost to meet these.
As ever, some very judgemental posters.
I would say though that if I left one of my horses out in this weather it would top itself!
But, if you once accept that we own horses and keep them for our wishes, we have created an artificial environment for them, just as most horses now are 'artificial' in that they have been specifically bred for certain activities. Unless we own a Prewalski's horse, a zebra or a donkey, really all horses are far removed from their original species.
That is not to say they do not have lots of welfare needs and I think the vast majority of owners do their utmost to meet these.
As ever, some very judgemental posters.
I would say though that if I left one of my horses out in this weather it would top itself!
npage123
Well-Known Member
DD
Well-Known Member
lots of yards near to me have no winter turn out a\t all. some of the horses dont even get ridden out or lunged. a local yard owners keeps her and her liveries in 24/7 during the winter. hers stay in until spring turn out not ridden led out in hand or lunged or anything. I think it should be illegal.
TeamChaser
Well-Known Member
Mooseontheloose what a sensible post, couldn't agree more! Mine are in at the moment but exercised every day and get an hour turn out in arena morning and evening to have a leg stretch, a play and a roll
Far too many opinionated folk who maintain that stabling is evil and unnatural. It's not ideal but whilst I do rent privately, the land is not mine and I therefore need to be respectful of that. 2-3 weeks in in the worst of the winter won't kill them and they have 24/7 turnout for around 7 months of the yr with 8 acres for just the 2 of them. They've managed to go out nearly every day this autumn/winter up until last few days. You do the best you can
Our domesticated horses are fairly far removed from 'native' these days and individual turn out in a half acre paddock is not keeping them naturally either!
Far too many opinionated folk who maintain that stabling is evil and unnatural. It's not ideal but whilst I do rent privately, the land is not mine and I therefore need to be respectful of that. 2-3 weeks in in the worst of the winter won't kill them and they have 24/7 turnout for around 7 months of the yr with 8 acres for just the 2 of them. They've managed to go out nearly every day this autumn/winter up until last few days. You do the best you can
Our domesticated horses are fairly far removed from 'native' these days and individual turn out in a half acre paddock is not keeping them naturally either!
rascal
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with those who have said pampered competition horses, are not always happy content horses. They cant interact with other horses, and are not allowed to live a natural life.
Some race horses never see a field, which is hardly a good lifestyle. Its strange how SOME of the owners and trainers are just starting to see the benefit of turnout.
I'm not a horse but I know I would soon get fed up of looking at the same walls all day
Some race horses never see a field, which is hardly a good lifestyle. Its strange how SOME of the owners and trainers are just starting to see the benefit of turnout.
I'm not a horse but I know I would soon get fed up of looking at the same walls all day
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
Not coming down either side of the fence particularly, but my horses make their opinions quite clear. They have 9 acres on rolling hill in winter, including a 30ft straw bedded 3 sided shelter. If its really awful I bring them in to a half covered yard, 50 x 25 ft with deep straw bed and all the hay they can eat.
They still stand at the gate looking wistfully out at the hill...if I open it they just wander right back out.
They still stand at the gate looking wistfully out at the hill...if I open it they just wander right back out.
rachk89
Well-Known Member
Kind of think it depends on the situation. Like I know a mare with a damaged tendon who only gets to leave her stable twice a day for a 10minutes walk each time. But to do anything else would damage her and she may need put down if she injured herself severely. Is that cruel? No.
However I also know a dealer nearby who keeps her horses in all day no matter what as it's too much time to put them all out. They are all fit but none of them looked overly happy. One bit my dad quite badly. We didn't buy from her.
However I also know a dealer nearby who keeps her horses in all day no matter what as it's too much time to put them all out. They are all fit but none of them looked overly happy. One bit my dad quite badly. We didn't buy from her.
zoelouisem
Well-Known Member
After having the 2nd set of staples taken out of my competition pony in the last 6 months today. because she tried yet again escaping and bringing herself in from the field she's now happy in her stable.
We've tried her individually in a pair with others, with hay feeding her in the field she jumps out regularly when in the electric fence field. She paces drops weight and gets upset when she's out even for half an hour. I've come to the conclusion she's better off in her box. Even when I put her loose in the sand school she jumped out!
So it's not right that all horses should be out all the time with others she hates others!
We've tried her individually in a pair with others, with hay feeding her in the field she jumps out regularly when in the electric fence field. She paces drops weight and gets upset when she's out even for half an hour. I've come to the conclusion she's better off in her box. Even when I put her loose in the sand school she jumped out!
So it's not right that all horses should be out all the time with others she hates others!
Peggs
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I haven't read all the responses, (I'm supposed to be revising!), to put a different perspective on it, are the horses who are stabled for long periods actually in a state that is termed 'helplessness'. Helplessness in horses may actually be deemed as a positive by some as the horses appear apathetic and lethargic and so are easier to handle. Its almost like a state of depression for them and is contrary to what people may think as they see a horse showing no signs of stereotypic behaviour therefore must be ok.
There's evidence in a previous post of a horse who appears to love her stable (Im really sorry I dont mean to pick on you but its the one of the ones I read!), is this because in her early days she was stabled a lot and the additional stimuli of being out in a field is too overwhelming? Maybe she is ok out competing because she has learned and grown with these kind of stimuli and given boundaries to rely on imposed by humans.
I think as far as the welfare act 2006 is concerned it needs to be revamped to encompass growing evidence of reduced stereotypic behaviours seen in horses with such things as stable mirrors and dual aspect stables.
I'm not against stabling, we can't all be lucky enough to have vast acres of grass, especially if you're in arable areas and health and medical issues do require box rest in some cases. I do think we have a duty to our horses to make the experience of being in a stable as stress free as possible.
There's evidence in a previous post of a horse who appears to love her stable (Im really sorry I dont mean to pick on you but its the one of the ones I read!), is this because in her early days she was stabled a lot and the additional stimuli of being out in a field is too overwhelming? Maybe she is ok out competing because she has learned and grown with these kind of stimuli and given boundaries to rely on imposed by humans.
I think as far as the welfare act 2006 is concerned it needs to be revamped to encompass growing evidence of reduced stereotypic behaviours seen in horses with such things as stable mirrors and dual aspect stables.
I'm not against stabling, we can't all be lucky enough to have vast acres of grass, especially if you're in arable areas and health and medical issues do require box rest in some cases. I do think we have a duty to our horses to make the experience of being in a stable as stress free as possible.
Last edited:
Peggs
Well-Known Member
Can I just add to my previous post, little bit of a back track I suppose! - Im not saying all horses are in a state of helplessness but in some circumstances it could be inferred, especially if stabling for a long length of time has become life long issue for them.
elliefiz
Well-Known Member
There's a few points raised that I find interesting having read a few pages from the start.
Firstly this notion that competition horses are kept better than everyone else's. Granted they will have a pretty high level of human care, ie feed, decent bedding, heaps of rugs and no doubt a fancy hanging basket or flower pot outside the stable. To a human it looks all so nice and perfect, one would want to move in themselves! But a horse's basic needs are none of the above really. They exist quite happily without any of the fancy trappings as long as they have other horses for company, water and forage. They like to move about. A study tracked feral horses in Australia and found they travelled nearly 20km a day. As foragers (not grazers as people usually think) their bodies are designed to travel long distances daily. To be cooped up in a stable with maybe 1 or 2 hours exercise a day isn't healthy no matter what we try to convince ourselves. We can convince ourselves that horses have changed and developed over the years but physically our horses have not evolved to the point of living fairly sedentary lifestyles, they share all the same characteristics of their feral relations. It doesn't surprise me that world wide success aside, Carl Hesters competition horses tend to have longevity in their careers and seemingly above average soundness considering the demands of top level dressage on the horse's body. I personally believe that it's not a case of just luck and can be attributed to his attitude of letting horses be horses with regular turn out and company.
There is a very interesting experiment being undertaken at the moment which entails producing a flat racehorse of very good breeding in a very natural way with the aim of racing in grade 1 races. The study has attracted some huge names keen to advise and learn from the study, it will be really interesting to see the results. Turn out, amongst other things, plays a big part of the study. Racing yards, despite what others have said would most certainly see the highest occurances of stable vices, stomach ulcers and stressy horses. There are yards in areas like Lambourn, famous for its racing yards, with yards of 40/50 boxes on 2 to 3 acre sites. There is no turn out facilities, period. It's deeply sad. Yes competition horses and racehorses have a job to do and these horses are just spokes in a wheel of a giant industry that generates a lot of money but they are living creatures. They aren't bicycles which can be left the garage when not in use. We at least owe them a half decent standard of living. And by that I don't mean that horses need to be out 24/7, it's not convenient for someone with a job and limited time to be wrestling a muddy horse out of a field to ride in the pitch black at 7pm in the middle of winter. But there also should be a balance. I know livery yards close to urban areas are a dying breed. I know that many exist on tiny plots with far too many horses so that the overheads can be paid. And as a result there's nowhere to put the horses day to day throughout winter. In which case they should do away with their muddy paddock altogether and lay down all weather turn out paddocks instead which can be used year round and feed the horses hay in them. Many of the yards in Germany I have visited have something like this for winter turnout as they don't always have huge amounts of land. If the yard only has 10/12 acres and 16/18 horses there isn't going to be enough grass to last very long even in summer, so trying to preserve paddocks is a futile exercise.
Firstly this notion that competition horses are kept better than everyone else's. Granted they will have a pretty high level of human care, ie feed, decent bedding, heaps of rugs and no doubt a fancy hanging basket or flower pot outside the stable. To a human it looks all so nice and perfect, one would want to move in themselves! But a horse's basic needs are none of the above really. They exist quite happily without any of the fancy trappings as long as they have other horses for company, water and forage. They like to move about. A study tracked feral horses in Australia and found they travelled nearly 20km a day. As foragers (not grazers as people usually think) their bodies are designed to travel long distances daily. To be cooped up in a stable with maybe 1 or 2 hours exercise a day isn't healthy no matter what we try to convince ourselves. We can convince ourselves that horses have changed and developed over the years but physically our horses have not evolved to the point of living fairly sedentary lifestyles, they share all the same characteristics of their feral relations. It doesn't surprise me that world wide success aside, Carl Hesters competition horses tend to have longevity in their careers and seemingly above average soundness considering the demands of top level dressage on the horse's body. I personally believe that it's not a case of just luck and can be attributed to his attitude of letting horses be horses with regular turn out and company.
There is a very interesting experiment being undertaken at the moment which entails producing a flat racehorse of very good breeding in a very natural way with the aim of racing in grade 1 races. The study has attracted some huge names keen to advise and learn from the study, it will be really interesting to see the results. Turn out, amongst other things, plays a big part of the study. Racing yards, despite what others have said would most certainly see the highest occurances of stable vices, stomach ulcers and stressy horses. There are yards in areas like Lambourn, famous for its racing yards, with yards of 40/50 boxes on 2 to 3 acre sites. There is no turn out facilities, period. It's deeply sad. Yes competition horses and racehorses have a job to do and these horses are just spokes in a wheel of a giant industry that generates a lot of money but they are living creatures. They aren't bicycles which can be left the garage when not in use. We at least owe them a half decent standard of living. And by that I don't mean that horses need to be out 24/7, it's not convenient for someone with a job and limited time to be wrestling a muddy horse out of a field to ride in the pitch black at 7pm in the middle of winter. But there also should be a balance. I know livery yards close to urban areas are a dying breed. I know that many exist on tiny plots with far too many horses so that the overheads can be paid. And as a result there's nowhere to put the horses day to day throughout winter. In which case they should do away with their muddy paddock altogether and lay down all weather turn out paddocks instead which can be used year round and feed the horses hay in them. Many of the yards in Germany I have visited have something like this for winter turnout as they don't always have huge amounts of land. If the yard only has 10/12 acres and 16/18 horses there isn't going to be enough grass to last very long even in summer, so trying to preserve paddocks is a futile exercise.
Mooseontheloose
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's any doubt that horses kept as 'naturally' as possible in this very unnatural world we live in is what we should all be aiming for.
But, unless one owns rolling acres and not many of us do in the UK, we have to keep our horses on what are small patches of land which do not allow them the room to roam, as they would in the wild. Studies show that wild horses have territories of many square miles.
Does this mean that only the very wealthy landed gentry should have horses? I'm not playing the inverted snobbery card here, just wondering what all these owners who work their socks off to keep their horses, perhaps at livery or on small patches of land which they diligently poo pick, top, fertilize, fence and so on are meant to do?
I am currently extremely privileged and lucky to have a large, sloping, light land field with a shelter to keep my elderly horses on which even after this rain is still without too much mud. In the worst of the weather they'll be out on the hill foraging and happy. BUT, in the past I've been based on clay, and regardless of the acreage it would be horrendous mud fever inducing unwalkeable in by now. The horses would stand by the gate and be desperate to come in.
I do think it is becoming much more common for competition horses to be given more field time and I think the life of a young race horse, stuck in it's stable 23 hours a day must be pretty grim, but then they wouldn't enjoy standing in clay mud hock deep either.
It's not a perfect world for horses, but as I said in an earlier post, the majority of owners do their absolute best.
But, unless one owns rolling acres and not many of us do in the UK, we have to keep our horses on what are small patches of land which do not allow them the room to roam, as they would in the wild. Studies show that wild horses have territories of many square miles.
Does this mean that only the very wealthy landed gentry should have horses? I'm not playing the inverted snobbery card here, just wondering what all these owners who work their socks off to keep their horses, perhaps at livery or on small patches of land which they diligently poo pick, top, fertilize, fence and so on are meant to do?
I am currently extremely privileged and lucky to have a large, sloping, light land field with a shelter to keep my elderly horses on which even after this rain is still without too much mud. In the worst of the weather they'll be out on the hill foraging and happy. BUT, in the past I've been based on clay, and regardless of the acreage it would be horrendous mud fever inducing unwalkeable in by now. The horses would stand by the gate and be desperate to come in.
I do think it is becoming much more common for competition horses to be given more field time and I think the life of a young race horse, stuck in it's stable 23 hours a day must be pretty grim, but then they wouldn't enjoy standing in clay mud hock deep either.
It's not a perfect world for horses, but as I said in an earlier post, the majority of owners do their absolute best.
Nativelover
Well-Known Member
I completely agree, most owners do the best they can with the circumstances they have. I am one of those, I've put a few posts on here about my lack of turnout. I can see clearly the horses would prefer being out for even just a morning or afternoon more frequently than 2 x full days per week. But how do you convince the YO, of the yards who severely restrict turnout, to change their ways??
Would this Act have any influence if it was enforced?
Would it have any bearing on planning decisions to provide all weather tirnout areas?
What I am aware of is how more common it is to find yards close fields completely for a long winter. Citing the weather as the reason, but don't feel any responsibility to provide alternatives.
Would this Act have any influence if it was enforced?
Would it have any bearing on planning decisions to provide all weather tirnout areas?
What I am aware of is how more common it is to find yards close fields completely for a long winter. Citing the weather as the reason, but don't feel any responsibility to provide alternatives.