Stallion, gelding, mare..is it true..?

PurBee

PurBee

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Ive read that as a handler/trainer you ‘discuss with a mare, tell a gelding and ask a stallion’

I havent handled/trained enough horses of know if this is a true general rule of handling the boys to the girls.
Anyone here care to share your experience of this?

Have you found a consistent difference in applying training methods depending on the sex of the horse?

I tend to have to tell my mare by being mare-ish myself and persuade my gelding after a long discussion! He thinks hes a stallion..
 
I've always heard, "Tell a gelding, ask a mare, negotiate with a stallion."

Which suggests it isn't completely true!

I've always just dealt with the horse in front of me. Geldings have tended to be most straightforward, followed by stallions, and then mares, but that could just be the horses I've dealt with.
 
I dont ask or negotiate with my stallions. I tell them what they are doing and what is expected of them. They are perfectly well mannered and under the thumb. They know where the line is and not to cross it.

I see too many badly behaved stallions in the show ring and it is just dangerous. Mine are well behaved and obedient but not dull. They have zest and vava voom but they most certainly do not misbehave!

I had 2 stallions standing next to me start a fight on each other in the ring (same bloodlines and the male line has always had a nasty streak in it. I personally wouldn't breed from them with their temprements but hey ho! Not my ponies not my choice!) My lad shot behind me and hid - he made a few big boy noises but didn't want to be anywhere near the carnage lol! He wouldn't dream if doing anything of the sort! He knows his boundaries.
 
Elf On A Shelf said:
I had 2 stallions standing next to me start a fight on each other in the ring My lad shot behind me and hid - he made a few big boy noises but didn't want to be anywhere near the carnage lol! He wouldn't dream if doing anything of the sort! He knows his boundaries.
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?
 
I agree that each horse is an individual. It was interesting having my first gelding for 16 years this year though, I definitely rode him like one of the mares to start with and found he was rudderless and didn't make useful decisions. He needs more "telling" than they do, needs to be told what to do with every second of his being otherwise he's an airhead :D it's always been a negotiation with the girls :)
 
Mares I find like marmite I fall in love with them or can't stand them regardless of how difficult or sensitive they are, geldings I find straightforward, goofy and often in your pocket type but I don't get that gut reaction I find with mares. However there are always exceptions to every rule! Can't comment on stallions.
 
I haven’t owned stallions but I find it true about mares. My geldings are natives and certainly any ‘discussion’ with them would result in them sticking their fingers up at me and doing what they want. The mares I’ve owned will do anything for me once they are onside, but that respect has to be earned by me, they certainly wouldn’t be easy if I bossed them around. The geldings need me to be In charge whereas the mares don’t want a leader, they want a partner.
 
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I like the saying but I don't think it's true at all. You don't "tell" my gelding, but he is very neurotic and very nervous. If you don't ask him kindly he is liable to have a nervous breakdown! And I do a lot of negotiating with the Arab gelding that I ride, as it's the only way to get him to be sensible. Having worked with some big SJ stallions, I have to say that they were the horses I've handled where "tell" was the most appropriate. Mainly because you don't really want to give a 17hh 4 yr old stallion room for negotiation!
 
As others have mentioned you need to deal with the animal in front of you. I had to remove my dear old Welsh gelding from a field once as he was trying to get over the fence to attack our neighbour's stallion. There are several stallions on the yard where my young cob is now and they are extremely laid back. All but one are Iberian horses and they seemed to be fairly steady as a breed. The mares I know are pretty clever and sensible except one TB who can be totally hysterical at times but her owner is not a very relaxed person either so they play off each other.
 
All of the sweetest ones I've had have been mares. The best behaved too. The geldings have ALL been give an inch, take a mile types. For some reason, I always shop for gelding though. I like their cheeky natures.
 
I think mares have more of a brain, and they are really the boss of most geldings or stallions, if they are not interested there is no way any stallion is not going to end up getting kicked. Teasing mares is interesting and if you watch how they control their herd they really do not have to do much control them, the crowd just parts. With people if they trust you they will do anything for you, if your judgement in their oppinion is lacking there may be no persuading them.
 
Thanks for sharing...some really interesting experiences which seem to confirm it depends more on the personality of the horse in front of us than what’s between their legs!

I do find some ‘rules of thumb’ to be extremely applicable most times, of course, there will always be exceptions.

My gelding (7) 15.3 is cheeky with me. I have to bring out my ‘serious masculine firm’ side to get him to listen. Im a woman. With men i notice he listens automatically...they must sense the testosterone and do as theyre told!?

Do you think that the gender of the trainer has an impact generally or is it the personality of the trainer?
There seem to be more male trainers online than females, does this indicate that men, with their natural, masculine dominance presence personality have an easier time training horses?
(i dont mean that to sound sexist if it does to anyone reading, im genuinely curious, and accept there are differences hormonally between the genders and appreciate animals sense our hormonal ‘stamp’ too, so perhaps that is a factor and gives men a ‘dominance’ advantage due to their testosterone, if true it would mean the great female trainers have a unique gift training horses!)

My gelding is cheeky to the mare too, his personality is truly adorable. He likes training, and is extremely curious and brave, and he remembers what he’s learnt so quickly. He’s 3/4 arab so has spunk and spark, but he’s not dangerous with it, he does it for a laugh! He loves making me jump when he suddenly swivels, and shakes his head, trotting off. He bunny hops when he’s excited, which is so hilarious to see him move that energy through his body, making a honking sound.
I never knew horses made any sound apart from neying, but he does this deep honk!
After a gallop around the land he flies up to the highest point to see all around and he hisses, and huge bellowing hiss, through his nose that echoes through the valley. Another sound i never heard from a horse before!

My mare, older, is half arab x welsh d, and she’s delightful. In her eyes, Im lead mare alongside her of the whole family of animals. What i ask her, she complies. Sometimes she’s stubborn but she loves us working together. She has her moments, but when around me she’s very well behaved. I completely trust her. She observes me training the gelding, and learns so much visually that way. I work with her after him and one ask of a new ‘command’ she’s never done before but just by witnessing me doing that with the gelding, she understands and executes. I was so impressed when that started happening!
 
MeredithyChristmas said:
I agree about dealing with the horse you have but I remember being told as a joke “compromise with an Arab”
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That one I'm fairly sure is true!

For instance, my plan may be that we walk down a track in a straight line. My share horse will oblige and we always get to my intended destination via my planned route, but I have to accept that we will spook sideways at the vans parked up by the farm, take evasive action via the grass verge when a killer bird jumps out at us, and stand frozen in horror at water on the track for at least 2 minutes. So not a straight line exactly....! Compromise is definitely your friend with Arabs...
 
Elf On A Shelf said:
I dont ask or negotiate with my stallions. I tell them what they are doing and what is expected of them. They are perfectly well mannered and under the thumb. They know where the line is and not to cross it.

I see too many badly behaved stallions in the show ring and it is just dangerous. Mine are well behaved and obedient but not dull. They have zest and vava voom but they most certainly do not misbehave!

I had 2 stallions standing next to me start a fight on each other in the ring (same bloodlines and the male line has always had a nasty streak in it. I personally wouldn't breed from them with their temprements but hey ho! Not my ponies not my choice!) My lad shot behind me and hid - he made a few big boy noises but didn't want to be anywhere near the carnage lol! He wouldn't dream if doing anything of the sort! He knows his boundaries.
Click to expand...

I know my limits and a stallion is one. Im just too soft for a stallion. My dominance persona with one would be fake and a stallion would know it because im really in awe of stallions and their power, and find it also intimidating, which he would sense!
I would have to get over my intimidation of them to get anywhere with one!
Im being brutally honest here, my dominance is strong when its flowing but not naturally strong...i have to mindfully behave dominant and bring to the fore seriousness and dominance.

The days im soft, and feeling playful, i dont do training with the horses.

Would you say you have a naturally dominant personality or do you adopt that persona only when training stallions because thats whats required with a stallion?
 
HashRouge said:
That one I'm fairly sure is true!

For instance, my plan may be that we walk down a track in a straight line. My share horse will oblige and we always get to my intended destination via my planned route, but I have to accept that we will spook sideways at the vans parked up by the farm, take evasive action via the grass verge when a killer bird jumps out at us, and stand frozen in horror at water on the track for at least 2 minutes. So not a straight line exactly....! Compromise is definitely your friend with Arabs...
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Lol!! Sounds like a creative straight line ride! :D

Sometimes mice squeel about outside at night here. My headtorch seems to induce it when im doing night checks/feeds. The squeeling sends my arabs into high altert...eyes darting about “what the hell is that sound?!”, then snorting starts with low snakey necks....my standard phrase during freak out times is a very calm “its okaaaaay, reallllly, only a mouse” and they observe me not reacting so they get on with life.

The times when they alert me to something in the field i cant see, and they obviously are very concerned, we’re all at the fence, looking intently, arched necks, wide eyed!

We get a lot of poachers with guns here so i have to take the horses calls seriously and investigate every time. One asked me if it was alright to shoot in a field that was uphill from where they were grazing. They wanted to shoot downhill into the clearing of the field, Just a 2.5acre field! I said about the horses grazing, danger of shooting the horses, and they were disappointed as if i was over-reacting!
Arabs are like guard dogs, when theyre out in the fields theyve never made a call up to me that turned out to be nothing.
 
PurBee said:
I know my limits and a stallion is one. Im just too soft for a stallion. My dominance persona with one would be fake and a stallion would know it because im really in awe of stallions and their power, and find it also intimidating, which he would sense!
I would have to get over my intimidation of them to get anywhere with one!
Im being brutally honest here, my dominance is strong when its flowing but not naturally strong...i have to mindfully behave dominant and bring to the fore seriousness and dominance.

The days im soft, and feeling playful, i dont do training with the horses.

Would you say you have a naturally dominant personality or do you adopt that persona only when training stallions because thats whats required with a stallion?
Click to expand...

I don't get on with mares very well, especially not marish mares so I guess yeah I am quite dominant and too much so for a mares liking.

Don't get me wrong I can get on with mares that I don't do much with because it is more of a convenience thing but I would rather have a stallion any day of the week! My 2 are such saps at times!

Not everyone gets on with entires of either gender!
 
There's definitely a difference between mares and geldings. I love my mares, they're full of personality and wear their hearts on their sleeves. I'd always pick a mare. Most people seem to have a preference.

I have to negotiate/discuss with my one mare, I'd get no where with 'telling' her, she's too bright. That's not to say I don't expect her to have manners.

I treat every horse as an individual but stereotypes normally come about for a reason ?
 
MeredithyChristmas said:
I agree about dealing with the horse you have but I remember being told as a joke “compromise with an Arab”
Click to expand...

HashRouge said:
That one I'm fairly sure is true!

For instance, my plan may be that we walk down a track in a straight line. My share horse will oblige and we always get to my intended destination via my planned route, but I have to accept that we will spook sideways at the vans parked up by the farm, take evasive action via the grass verge when a killer bird jumps out at us, and stand frozen in horror at water on the track for at least 2 minutes. So not a straight line exactly....! Compromise is definitely your friend with Arabs...
Click to expand...


Well, perhaps it wasn’t said as a joke!
 
"Do you think that the gender of the trainer has an impact generally or is it the personality of the trainer?
There seem to be more male trainers online than females, does this indicate that men, with their natural, masculine dominance presence personality have an easier time training horses?
(i dont mean that to sound sexist if it does to anyone reading, im genuinely curious, and accept there are differences hormonally between the genders and appreciate animals sense our hormonal ‘stamp’ too, so perhaps that is a factor and gives men a ‘dominance’ advantage due to their testosterone, if true it would mean the great female trainers have a unique gift training horses!)"

No. I think the *slightly* higher ratio of male riders at the upper levels has a lot to do with gender roles and norms in society, and in equestrian sport in particular. For example, the three Olympic sports evolved out of the cavalry, and most of the trainers and riders were men because women were obviously not in the cavalry, and the main schools of classical equitation (i.e. Spanish Riding School, Cadre Noir) did not admit women until the late 20th century. Although it's arguably improving, there remains more pressure on women than men to balance family with ambition -- and men don't get pregnant -- which makes having a professional riding/training career a wee bit tougher for women.

Testosterone doesn't give a 'dominance advantage.' That in and of itself is a social construct, as is the dominance paradigm of horse training. For a while, we were taught that horses respect 'dominance' and dominate one another, but more recent studies have shown that this is a lousy model for how equines actually relate to one another. Humans, however, are prone to seeing the world and other creatures the framework of social hierarchy and apply it to everything. Horses learn to 'respect' their handlers through operative conditioning and thousands of years of domestication, which has made them responsive to humans and trainable. It would be a lot harder to train a zebra.

Now it is true that many men are more forceful and aggressive and blunt in their manner, but that's socialisation, not ingrained behaviour. This is sometimes useful with horses, but if the handler is too rough, abrupt, and inconsistent, it can freak them out. It's also true that many women are wishy-washy and 'girly' (to use a terrible, gendered word), and that does not get you far with horses. Little girls are socialised to not be 'bossy' or 'bitchy' while society rewards little boys for similar sorts of behaviour, so without any prior training, they may approach the horse differently. But one won't be more effective than the other unless the person knows how to interact with horses. You need to be clear and firm and consistent, but that's learned, regardless of gender.

The only time I have seen horses react to a handler's gender are instances where the horse was abused (almost aways by a man in these cases), and the horse panics when it has to interact with men.
 
My stallion is the best pony I have ever had the pleasure of owning. He does everything and all with a smile on his face. All he wants to do is please. We bought a colt last year from the same line and he is just the same. I love the intelligence that stallions seem to have and when they are on side, they give you everything. Mine all live a normal life and turn out with company if they will tolerate it or atleast alongside another pony.
We did geld one of our stallions at 6 as he was becoming increasing unruly and aggressive, not what you would want to breed from. He is now much better as a gelding and is turned out with company although he still has a nasty streak in him and is very dominant.
 
I think it's true to a degree. I generally find mares to be smarter, more sensitive and in need of more "discussion" than geldings, that's for sure. I love mares - I think if you get a smart mare on your side then you have the sort of horse who will face down demons for you. My own horse is now retired (funnily enough, a difficult mare who I couldn't get on side!) but I have been really lucky to ride more than 120 horses on trips abroad and the majority of my 'top ten' are mares who were intelligent, brave and with really admirable attitudes. That's not to say that geldings and stallions can't be spectacular too of course, but I think the discussions required with some mares can lead to a very satisfying partnership. :)
 
HollyWoozle said:
I love mares - I think if you get a smart mare on your side then you have the sort of horse who will face down demons for you.
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again I think you still have to take the horse as an individual though ;)
I have one that is definitely on my side, she's trained to a point way, way in excess of what I ever dreamed for her and we have a great connection, but she is as wimpy as they come most of the time, she's all mouth & no trousers :p I'm the protector ;)
My other mares have all been quite bold but she's got a very high sense of self preservation and that's very much at the surface most of the time :p
 
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