Stallion Grading.... AES or SHB GB?

I know absolutely nothing about the gradings discussed but on a more general level I would really suggest looking into some sort of "professional" production, particularly if you're not confident about your ability to show the stallion to the absolute best of his ability. (Not being critical - I obviously have no idea how you ride - but you did bring it up.
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Sure, the inspectors are judging the horse on its innate ability and the potential to pass that on but they can only assess what they see on the day. In my experience gradings tend to be quite encouraging (after all, inspectors LIKE horses and want good ones to succeed) but it's a very narrow window so if the horse does not show its best they cannot be expected to guess or to offer a number of options. Especially with presenting stallions the learning curve is nearly vertical and the chances are limited if not singular so it makes sense to at least get the assistance of someone who has specific experience.

Also, remember a stallion is ALWAYS on show. Even if people are not at the grading to scope out a stallion for breeding they will see and take note of how a horse behaves/jumps/moves/presents and it will affect their opinion.

As they say, you only have one chance to make a first impression.

Professional help is an investment in the horse's future. If you are going to look at the horse as a business (rather than just a personal riding horse) I think the margin for error and experimentation has to be kept as narrow as possible - after all, stallions are supposed to stay stallions because they are BETTER than other horses, not just as good. Presentation isn't the same as potential but it is an integral aspect of allowing a horse to develop most fully and express his most desirable attributes.
 
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God that is confusing.
So are you saying that an ungraded stallion cant have studbook foals whatever or that if an ungraded stallion has one graded parent they can

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Not quite! If an ungraded/unapproved stallion covers an ungraded/unapproved mare with birth papers/original passport from the same studbook then that studbook MUST give them a passport stating the breeding (ie register them). However, becuase neither parent is graded neither the offspring NOR any of its descendants will be eligible for grading into or regsitering with the studbook section proper becuase bascially the pedigree does not fit the breeding rules of the main section of the studbook. However, in order to accomodate these excluded animals a special section -- what we call Section X in this country -- has to be created to give them a UELN number and home.

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sorry to hijack!
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But we had a a foal from our TB mare who is in the main studbook and graded with the SHB GB. When we came to register the foal because she was by an unregistered stallion (a pikey cob) we were unable to as they held no DNA for the stallion. I did think that because the mare was registered and graded that the foal would be able to have a passport showing her dam line, not so. We had the vet do all the paperwork, signed to say identified while on the dam, DNA sample taken, but the SHB GB said no, they have apparently changed the rules
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So although my foal was out of a graded/registered mare all the foal has is a ID passport showing no breeding even though the dam is proven
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Is this right?? Is there anywhere else we could have registered her??? They have now said if we grade her she can go in the Foundation studbook which WILL show her dam line. But as that will cost around £250 is it worth it? It seems to me they just bend the rules to suit themselves......
 
No offence taken...

I am very confident of my ability to break and produce him on the flat and over 1m - 1m 05, but a the mo I am a bit windy about anything bigger than that, but have been jumping higher in the past! Had a knee op and not been out competitively since 2007 and that was only a couple of unaff. ODE's! And I really don't want to screw it up for my boy!!
So yes, that is why I was thinking of getting someone else in to ride him over bigger fences!! Or was hoping that he could be graded loose jumping... but that is just cos I am being a wimp.. no detrement on his ability or technique!!
 
Yes I thought that was the case with KWPN, that you did have some option of going back up a level as long as you bred to approved stallion.

How do the Irish books compare, I suppose I'm asking Janet?

It's certainly a minefield - I would rather see all pedigree's recorded regardless of parents graded status (even if ungraded was typed in next to name and papers were green or white not pink). Yes accept sire /dam pedigree has to be from DNA/studbook proof etc. Because making papers harder to obtain doesn't appear to reduce peoples choices to graded only, ungraded stallions will still be used.

I have a cracking ISH gelding but Pet ID passport dam and sire unknown I wish I knew who they were as I could sell him 10 times tomorrow, such a shame, bet there's many like him around!
 
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Ciss..... can you answer my query about the jumping? Would you recommend me getting someone else to ride him if I am not confident at that leve myself?

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I don't think that I am ther right person to ask about what to do to pass an sj assessment with SHBGB bearing in minsd that they gave a low mark to a horse that they knew had been jumping under saddle for only 6 weeks becuase he was novicey <ROFL, what else do they expect??> and the only showjumping judge that they had that was have decent (ie had at least been to a WBFSH course on assessing young jumpers) died a couple of weeks ago and the one remaining one is to my mind a completely useless showjumoing judge although he may be OK with workers. Given all that, as they now know even less than they did before having lost Tom Hudson they will probably operate on the level that if they have heard of the rider then the horse must be OK. So I'm afraid that even if you were a super talented amateur I would tell you to send it to a name to give it some sort of chance. OTOH, they failed a super young eventer presented by Jane Holderness-Roddam (who would I thought have known more about how to produce young eventers than the rest of them put together) for being novicey too, so you never can tell.

If you went for AES showjumping grading then, yes a professional rider would be a very good (probably essential) choice.

HTH
 
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sorry to hijack!
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But we had a a foal from our TB mare who is in the main studbook and graded with the SHB GB. When we came to register the foal because she was by an unregistered stallion (a pikey cob) we were unable to as they held no DNA for the stallion. I did think that because the mare was registered and graded that the foal would be able to have a passport showing her dam line, not so. We had the vet do all the paperwork, signed to say identified while on the dam, DNA sample taken, but the SHB GB said no, they have apparently changed the rules
frown.gif

So although my foal was out of a graded/registered mare all the foal has is a ID passport showing no breeding even though the dam is proven
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This is not a section X case because actually neither parent had their original studbook papers issued by SHBGB as one was a Tb (subsequentky graded into SHBGB studbook) and the other was a gypsy cob who again would have had to get his original papers from somewhere else. Ironically in cases liek this the studbook can make its own rules as to what is, and is not eligible and is only forced to apply Section X rules if (in SHBGB's case) both parents have original SHBGB papers/passports but NEITHER are graded with SHBGB. I told youit was confusing!

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Is this right?? Is there anywhere else we could have registered her??? They have now said if we grade her she can go in the Foundation studbook which WILL show her dam line. But as that will cost around £250 is it worth it? It seems to me they just bend the rules to suit themselves......

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As she is a TB wirh presumably a Weatherbys General Studbook passport, going for a Weatherbs NTR one for the foal would be the best suggestion I could make.

HTH
 
As she is a TB wirh presumably a Weatherbys General Studbook passport, going for a Weatherbs NTR one for the foal would be the best suggestion I could make.

HTH

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You wouldnt be able to get a Weatherbys NTR register passport with the mares breeding on as both parents have to be Weatherbys registered.

You would be able to get a Weatherbys NTR VII passport but this wouldnt show any parentage even though the mare is registered.

Weatherbys NTR and NTR VII passports are quite differant

Funnily enough you can have a weatherbys NTR stallions whose offspring get GSB registered .
 
A similar comparison was quoted recently when two horses who had qualified for the BEF Futurity Championship were slammed on conformation and movement in a youngstock evaluation class.
When this was queried, the answer given was that they were looking for possible breeding stock not sports horses.

However, shouldn't sound conformation and movement be paramount in BOTH?
How can a sports horse be expected to remain sound if it doesn't possess good conformation?
Plus...........in the flesh and on the photos subsequently on the official photographers website, a horse that scored very well in the evaluation clearly has one of the worst hoof/pastern angles seen in a long time.
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This really confims to me the 'mess' that is out there at the moment. There doesn't appear to be a standard set of criteria applied across societies and they frequently mix up their terminology making it hard for people to comprehend what exactly is being judged.

Yes a horse needs 'good' confomation to do a performance job whether it includes jumping or not. The emphasis for showing, dressage, eventing & jumping will be different but there will also be a lot of overlap.

Some of the Native Pony Breed Soieties (who have been doing this for many years) seem to be more in tune with the rest of Europe but tend to be overlooked as an example of good practice .....
 
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