Stanley's hock fusion journey

[spike123]

oh no so sorry you've hit a wall. I have to say i seriously doubt mine will manage 8 weeks of walk work without trying to kill me too. Once he gets a bit fresh he becomes extremely spooky and downright dangerous at times. I hope your vet can give you some answers and pain relief helps

 

[kinnygirl1]

oh no so sorry you've hit a wall. I have to say i seriously doubt mine will manage 8 weeks of walk work without trying to kill me too. Once he gets a bit fresh he becomes extremely spooky and downright dangerous at times. I hope your vet can give you some answers and pain relief helps

Thank you... Feeling a bit down about it tbh.... Gave both of us a break from the stress and just did some work in hand today but will see what vet says on Monday if I can get hold of her.

 

[applecart14]

Thanks for this thread. We're on week 2 of cartrophen & no change yet (& yes I am hoping for a miracle cure!), so will be asking vet about fusion soon.

If catrophen is anything like Tildren it can take a few weeks to work. From memory (going back a few years now) I didn't notice any improvement in my horse for a good three or four weeks. I decided on ethanol fusion in the end as the three Tildren infusions he had, had not worked very well.

 

[kinnygirl1]

Bit of a pity post but things are not well with Stanley. Routine visit from physio yesterday ....his back was so tight and sore. He usually loves his physio but yesterday he was really edgy. Physio thinks referred pain from the hock as she thinks he is hiking the worst affected hind leg higher when trotting. She is very kindly going to get in touch with my vet today as they have always worked together on Stanley and pass on her findings. I'm so sad....I went for this treatment to help him but seems like I've made things worse as now he has back pain he's never had before. Is there light at the end of this tunnel? I don't know. Really hope that one day I'll look back at this thread and think "yeah things were rough for a while but they got better! " I'll keep you posted.

 

[spike123]

Bit of a pity post but things are not well with Stanley. Routine visit from physio yesterday ....his back was so tight and sore. He usually loves his physio but yesterday he was really edgy. Physio thinks referred pain from the hock as she thinks he is hiking the worst affected hind leg higher when trotting. She is very kindly going to get in touch with my vet today as they have always worked together on Stanley and pass on her findings. I'm so sad....I went for this treatment to help him but seems like I've made things worse as now he has back pain he's never had before. Is there light at the end of this tunnel? I don't know. Really hope that one day I'll look back at this thread and think "yeah things were rough for a while but they got better! " I'll keep you posted.

I'm so sorry things aren't going too great for Stanley just now. I hope it's no more than a minor issue and things will improve for you both soon. Please keep us posted.

 

[kinnygirl1]

Taken it very steady with Stanley over the festive period....both because he was sore and edgy just before christmas and because StormBarbara made riding an already edgy horse neArly impossible. With the thought that Stanley may be a little sore advise from vet was to use a little Bute but try and gently push on with the rehab. Apparently some horses do get sore when the hock is close to fusion but doing the work is critical for fusion to work. So, we have done a little hacking with his best friend, a little hand walking, some ground work and today we long lined! Not done that for ages but he seemed to really enjoy it...no tension or spook news and he seemed very focused. Going to try and gently increase the work over the next week. Vet coming out new year so will post again then. Thanks for reading.

 

[PorkChop]

Keep it up, its still sounding positive, and fingers crossed that the Vet is happy when they come and see him

 

[spike123]

Glad you're getting him working still and here's hoping that the new year brings about good news of a fusion taking place. Fingers remain firmly crossed for you here.

 

[applecart14]

I am sorry to butt in again, but I was told by my vet that it can take around 9-12 months to fuse a hock following ethanol and in some cases up to 18 months. So I am surprised that you think his hocks would be fused in such a short space of time - you are not even on month three yet are you?

From all I have read and heard and experienced myself the usual thing whilst joints are fusing is to give low level bute, a sensible monitored workload and remedial farriery if the horses foot placement alters during the process of fusing.

My horse was xrayed at 12 months, one hock had fused the other was almost fused. I didn't get any soreness with him close to fusion. Right from day one he was better.

The only soreness I did get was the complication 3-4 years post fusion when 5-8% of horses that have the procedure can suffer a set back. Again this wasn't long term, remedial shoeing and temporary pain relief sorted the problem out.

Hope you get some answers soon x

 

[kinnygirl1]

I am sorry to butt in again, but I was told by my vet that it can take around 9-12 months to fuse a hock following ethanol and in some cases up to 18 months. So I am surprised that you think his hocks would be fused in such a short space of time - you are not even on month three yet are you?

From all I have read and heard and experienced myself the usual thing whilst joints are fusing is to give low level bute, a sensible monitored workload and remedial farriery if the horses foot placement alters during the process of fusing.n

My horse was xrayed at 12 months, one hock had fused the other was almost fused. I didn't get any soreness with him close to fusion. Right from day one he was better.

The only soreness I did get was the complication 3-4 years post fusion when 5-8% of horses that have the procedure can suffer a set back. Again this wasn't long term, remedial shoeing and temporary pain relief sorted the problem out.

Hope you get some answers soon x

My vet didn't really give me a timescale...I got the impression it could vary from horse to horse and depend on the level of fusion you began with. Stanley's left hock was already partially fused, his right had already begun to fuse I am sticking to the rehab plan my vet gave me which is up to 20 mins walk 30 mins trot and 10 mins canter daily. He is barefoot so doesn't need remedial farriery. I wasn't told that he would need Bute for the whole of the rehab plan, just that he might get sore as he got closer to fusion and could have some Bute in that instance.
I'm certainly not an expert on this and really just following what the vet has told me, always trying to do the best for my beautiful boy.....do you think I'm doing something wrong?

 

[applecart14]

My vet didn't really give me a timescale...I got the impression it could vary from horse to horse and depend on the level of fusion you began with. Stanley's left hock was already partially fused, his right had already begun to fuse I am sticking to the rehab plan my vet gave me which is up to 20 mins walk 30 mins trot and 10 mins canter daily. He is barefoot so doesn't need remedial farriery. I wasn't told that he would need Bute for the whole of the rehab plan, just that he might get sore as he got closer to fusion and could have some Bute in that instance.
I'm certainly not an expert on this and really just following what the vet has told me, always trying to do the best for my beautiful boy.....do you think I'm doing something wrong?

Hi hun. Oh gosh no i wasnt suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I just think you are being a little optimistic with your timescales thats all. Whilst theres nothing wrong with that you dont want to end up dissapointed if it doesnt happen as quickly as you had hoped for. It worked great for my horse even though we had the four year post procedure problem. i would do it again in a heartbeat. just dont get too carried away with time to fuse. it will happen in time i am sure. i was told by my vet that fusion rates vary hugely from horse to horse. I was amazed how much work i was expected to do with my horse after the fusion. i think he was doing more after the injections than he was before!

 

[kinnygirl1]

Hi hun. Oh gosh no i wasnt suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I just think you are being a little optimistic with your timescales thats all. Whilst theres nothing wrong with that you dont want to end up dissapointed if it doesnt happen as quickly as you had hoped for. It worked great for my horse even though we had the four year post procedure problem. i would do it again in a heartbeat. just dont get too carried away with time to fuse. it will happen in time i am sure. i was told by my vet that fusion rates vary hugely from horse to horse. I was amazed how much work i was expected to do with my horse after the fusion. i think he was doing more after the injections than he was before!

Ah ok.... Not dissapointed... We have been thru so much in the last few years anything I get is a bonus! I just want to manage his pain the best I can. Yes the rehab is hard work...he's just a happy hacker normally so having to do a lot more fast work than I would usually which is hard esp with the short daylight hours, crap weather, child and job lol. Just gotta keep plodding on I guess.

 

[applecart14]

You will get there. Good luck, keep us all posted

 

[taraj]

Its really interesting hearing other peoples stories regarding hock fusion, my lad has been diagnosed with hock arthritis (posted here somewhere!)and had steroid injections but his hock has started to fuse naturally where as I believe both of the above have had a op/injection to help with the fusing? Vet has said to work mine as it will help the fusion complete so I sympathise with the hard work you are going through, although i am only on week 4 of walking its a bit chilly/boring!
Vets believe my lads was probably caused by him twisting it as only one hock is affected, maybe this is why it is fusing it self?
Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
Keep up with the updates, hope it continues to go well.

 

[kinnygirl1]

Its really interesting hearing other peoples stories regarding hock fusion, my lad has been diagnosed with hock arthritis (posted here somewhere!)and had steroid injections but his hock has started to fuse naturally where as I believe both of the above have had a op/injection to help with the fusing? Vet has said to work mine as it will help the fusion complete so I sympathise with the hard work you are going through, although i am only on week 4 of walking its a bit chilly/boring!
Vets believe my lads was probably caused by him twisting it as only one hock is affected, maybe this is why it is fusing it self?
Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
Keep up with the updates, hope it continues to go well.

Hi... My horses hocks were partially fused on first xray, and were further on with fusing on his second one 4 months later following steroid treatment. This was prior to having them fused with alcohol which is supposed to accelerate the process.

 

[taraj]

Hi... My horses hocks were partially fused on first xray, and were further on with fusing on his second one 4 months later following steroid treatment. This was prior to having them fused with alcohol which is supposed to accelerate the process.

That's interesting thanks, I suppose time will tell with my horse as to weather they fuse completely by themselves. My lad was never lame with his hock, just unwilling to go forwards as much as he used to so its not easy knowing if the steroids have made a difference until I up his work a bit.

 

[Dancing_Diva]

That's interesting thanks, I suppose time will tell with my horse as to weather they fuse completely by themselves. My lad was never lame with his hock, just unwilling to go forwards as much as he used to so its not easy knowing if the steroids have made a difference until I up his work a bit.

I'm also going through the same thing (have posted on this topic before Christmas) were about three months post medicating the hocks. I never made it to starting any trot work under saddle sadly, we did six weeks walk work and part way through went lame again! I'm now completely back to square one and my horse is completely unwilling to go forwards again at any pace. Appears sound to lunge and is happy to go forwards on the lunge just not with a rider. Just ruled out back and saddle so now it's clearly down to the legs only positive is his not hopping lame on both hinds like he was before we medicated.

 

[Ceriann]

Very interested in this thread. My mare decided end of summer that she just didn't want to go forward for me ridden, I couldn't get her to walk willingly never mind trot. She looked awkward on lunge. Everything checked and no change so she was sent to vets for lameness work up, which was (I was told) inconclusive (though nerve block to one hock had shown an improvement such that she was lame in the other hind). Scope next day showed marked ulcers and as hock X-ray came back clear vet focussed on ulcers (saying ulcers could in themselves cause the hind end awkwardness). Months later, clear scope etc, we've never moved off first base (she will now walk for me under saddle but no more). I've spoken to vet lots and they want her back in for another lameness work up which I'm unhappy about because they did that at the outset (we're not insured so I want to focus on progress now, not another work up) and also suggesting medicating hocks. I just want a clear plan and to be able to move forward with her (she's a lovely genuine horse and I can't continue to push her as I know she's telling me something).

 

[applecart14]

Applcart is your horse back in full work now? how long has it taken?
.

Hi it was over 5.5 years ago now. He went on to jump unaff to 1.05m, dressage to unaff elem and do the odd one day event. This was with remedial farriery, careful management and a decent physio. We were out every weekend at one point. From distant memory (not too clear on dates tbh) he developed his first suspensory branch injury around summer 2013 which is a common injury in horses that SJ. He got a second one whilst out in the field around twelve months later and the third one was as a result of going mad on the lunge when he sprung a shoe and galloped around for a while with it half on, half off Dec 2014/Jan 2015. He was actually fine after that, but then on vets advice because he was sound I was able to start jumping him and a trip to a dressage competition where he severely shied at a banner and twisted the leg shying set it all off again - on another leg! All three injuries were on different legs and varied between lateral and distal. I am sure if it were not for these set backs he would still be going strong.

Since recovering from his susp branch injury in Jan 2015 he's done XC schooling, jumping and dressage as well as fun rides although scans in Oct 2016 have shown that there is too much scar tissue to continue jumping him, there was also a degree of neck arthritis which has been managed through medication of the neck joint.

He's an old boy now (nearly 20) so is having a quieter life hacking, a bit of schooling and hopefully doing an occasional unaff prelim/novice dressage again this year with maybe the odd fun ride thrown in. The vet is very pleased with him on last assessment before Xmas.

It was inferred on the forum that because he's had his hocks fused this has caused his suspensory branch problems. The vet has always said that this is not the case and has had no bearing on the injuries sustained.
He is actually very good for his age. This is him jumping two years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ELFI_j7Yjk

 

[taraj]

thanks applecart, its nice to hear/see that they can come right. Sorry to hear about the other injuries, my horse is feeling really good at the minute so fingers crossed it continues when we start a little trot work next week. Although he has already tested it out galloping around his field and scaring me to death his going to hurt himself!.

 

[applecart14]

thanks applecart, its nice to hear/see that they can come right. Sorry to hear about the other injuries, my horse is feeling really good at the minute so fingers crossed it continues when we start a little trot work next week. Although he has already tested it out galloping around his field and scaring me to death his going to hurt himself!.

Hope all goes well for you. They like to self harm for certain!

 

[kinnygirl1]

Very interested in this thread. My mare decided end of summer that she just didn't want to go forward for me ridden, I couldn't get her to walk willingly never mind trot. She looked awkward on lunge. Everything checked and no change so she was sent to vets for lameness work up, which was (I was told) inconclusive (though nerve block to one hock had shown an improvement such that she was lame in the other hind). Scope next day showed marked ulcers and as hock X-ray came back clear vet focussed on ulcers (saying ulcers could in themselves cause the hind end awkwardness). Months later, clear scope etc, we've never moved off first base (she will now walk for me under saddle but no more). I've spoken to vet lots and they want her back in for another lameness work up which I'm unhappy about because they did that at the outset (we're not insured so I want to focus on progress now, not another work up) and also suggesting medicating hocks. I just want a clear plan and to be able to move forward with her (she's a lovely genuine horse and I can't continue to push her as I know she's telling me something).

I have been through similar before the arthiritis.... my horse had ulcers and he was eventually diagnosed with SI pain. We treated the ulcers and SI at the same time and he did come sound for a couple of years. He moved awkwardly behind too.

 

[LaurenBay]

My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try

 

[kinnygirl1]

My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try

Hi.... Well he's ok on a low level of Bute and consistent excercise...I am hoping that the Bute won't be needed forever and that once the hocks have fused sufficiently he won't need it. I have the vet coming for another post procedure check on Friday so I will update this thread then. Sorry to hear about your girl...is it worth asking a different practice for a second opinion? The procedure itself was not particularly invasive and he definitely wasn't crippled, in fact the first few weeks he was better than he had been in ages! Jury still out on whether it was worth it in the long run though!

 

[kinnygirl1]

UPDATE.....vet visit today and despite an up and down few weeks since his last check up my vet is really pleased with Stanley's progress. He is the most level behind that he has been throughout the process, my vet very kindly trotted him up for me so I could see for myself which was nice. The left hock is flexing more and looking the best it has so far. We think that the right one, which is further behind with fusion, is now starting to go through the stages the left I e has been through. The plan is to keep him on a low level of danililon through the next couple of months till the next check up and carry on the rehab at the current level. So all in all a positive update although we've a way to go yet. Thanks for reading.

 

[PorkChop]

Great news, so pleased for you Hope it has given you a boost and is making the rehab a little bit more bearable.

 

[kinnygirl1]

Great news, so pleased for you Hope it has given you a boost and is making the rehab a little bit more bearable.

Thank you ...yes definitely feel more positive, plus the nights are getting lighter with the promise of Spring just around the corner giving me more time to concentrate on the rehab....I can see a dot of light at the end of the tunnel lol.

 

[applecart14]

My mare has arthritis and had been through a tough time for the last year. My vet practice no longer do this op as they said most Horses are crippled in pain for the first 2 months. I did ask about it. How is your boy now? Sadly mine is running out of things we can try

hi Lauren Bay. I think u r getting confused. This is a procedure the OP has had carried out in her horse which is non invasive and non surgical and definetly not an operation although there is a hock operation which is done under general anaesthetic and which involves drilling the hock out i think and i think its this ur getting confused with.

 

[popsdosh]

hi Lauren Bay. I think u r getting confused. This is a procedure the OP has had carried out in her horse which is non invasive and non surgical and definetly not an operation although there is a hock operation which is done under general anaesthetic and which involves drilling the hock out i think and i think its this ur getting confused with.

Of course its invasive otherwise how do you define an injection into a joint .It is a surgical procedure.

 

[applecart14]

Of course its invasive otherwise how do you define an injection into a joint .It is a surgical procedure.

Yes I did think that when I wrote it Popsdosh as it is invasive but what I actually was trying to get across is that its not as invasive insomuch that the horse is not cut with a scalpel on an operating table under GA. I think this was what Lauren was getting mixed up with.

Yes the procedure carries risks, and yes it can go wrong. There is a chance as with any intra articular injection that you can get a joint infection. But the risks are considerably lowered when the procedure is done in a clinic in a more sterile environment than a yard.

And it is a relatively quick procedure, I think we were in and out (from the moment of arriving to the moment he loaded to go home) in about 75 mins.